Steam Refunds- Bad for smaller game devs?

[🅶🆄🅽🅺 Gorger]

So I am planning on releasing a game to the greenlight in maybe a month or two and there has has been one issue that is constantly been on my mind (If my game makes it to steam). The way the steam refunds work can hurt the developer, because if someone refunds the game then Valve gives back the consumer all the money they spent, even the tax (which means the game dev pays the tax). This scares me because I dont plan on making a game that lasts longer than 2 hours, but not less than 1 hour (It would be singleplayer), and in my mind people would just refund the game after they finish it and I would end up losing money. I dont plan on making the game super expensive, maybe around $2.

What I am trying to get at is that is this a legitiment concern I should have, or am I just overthinking it?

[Red Shift]

Some devs are reporting up to 70% return rates, so yes, you should be concerned.

http://steamed.kotaku.com/a-lot-of-people-are-using-steam-refunds-1709938036

[Dusk of Oolacile]

The solution is making quality games people don't want to refund. Someone who rushes out a bad game deceiving people very much deserve the process to be backfired on them.

Make a good game, release a demo, make sure people know what they're buying, and you won't have such issues.

[Random Reference #98]

Originally posted by srs bsns:

Some devs are reporting up to 70% return rates, so yes, you should be concerned.

http://steamed.kotaku.com/a-lot-of-people-are-using-steam-refunds-1709938036

How many of those returned sales would have even been sales in the first place if the person wasn't aware of the refund system. Allot of people are using it for free demos so those numbers are heavily open to interpretation.

@OP: Make your game longer than two hours, there's no way around having to do that with the current system regardless of how little you charge unless your game is fantastic but let's face it, this sounds like a first effort so the chances of that aren't great, no offense.

[Hextravert]

Unless you can make it so that your product isn't eligible for a refund, I wouldn't sell it here.

Originally posted by RazorBlade57:

So I am planning on releasing a game to the greenlight in maybe a month or two and there has has been one issue that is constantly been on my mind (If my game makes it to steam). The way the steam refunds work can hurt the developer, because if someone refunds the game then Valve gives back the consumer all the money they spent, even the tax (which means the game dev pays the tax). This scares me because I dont plan on making a game that lasts longer than 2 hours, but not less than 1 hour (It would be singleplayer), and in my mind people would just refund the game after they finish it and I would end up losing money. I dont plan on making the game super expensive, maybe around $2.

What I am trying to get at is that is this a legitiment concern I should have, or am I just overthinking it?

[Τhe Rolling Cheese Wheel]

Originally posted by srs bsns:

Some devs are reporting up to 70% return rates, so yes, you should be concerned.

http://steamed.kotaku.com/a-lot-of-people-are-using-steam-refunds-1709938036

That article is already debunked. The refunds are from purchases up to 6 months ago. Claiming 70% return rates is disingenuous and show how deceptive indie developers and developers as a whole are.

During the first few days/weeks of Valve creating the refund policy, there was a grace period where purchases up to 6 months ago were considered for refunds. This allows many to jump on the wagon and getting a refund before the time ran out.

In reality, refunds work exactly as intended. Do retail manufactures and retailers cry about refunds? Of course not. Refunds within reason for unsatisfactory product is basic consumer rights.

The only people who are against refunds are greedy and entitled developers/publishers. If your product is good and is priced appropriately, people will have absolutely no problem shoveling money your way. If your product is completely lacking on performance like arkham knight and ridiculous like slaughtering grounds, don't be surprised if people refund in droves.

[sir.eggy]

Originally posted by RazorBlade57:

This scares me because I dont plan on making a game that lasts longer than 2 hours, but not less than 1 hour (It would be singleplayer)

Seriously, only 1-2h? What kind of game would that be? Well, then I would be scared as well.

[Dogui]

If your game is a good experience, people would treasure it in their libraries no matter how short it is.

Also, refunding is now a thing on Steam but there's some effort to do it on the buyer's part.
I doubt most people would care to refund a game that costs less than $10 tbh...

About games that longs less than 2 hours, i guess they could be great if it's a original experience, like some art-philosofical-whatever game or just something with a really original mechanic. If it's derivative, like a Mario clone or a Metroidvania, you should care about content and your game should last more than 2 hours unless they're really cheap.

So in the end it's all a matter of natural selection...

[Gus the Crocodile]

Originally posted by Dusk of Oolacile:

The solution is making quality games people don't want to refund. Someone who rushes out a bad game deceiving people very much deserve the process to be backfired on them.

Make a good game, release a demo, make sure people know what they're buying, and you won't have such issues.

Originally posted by Τhe Rolling Cheese Wheel:

If your product is good and is priced appropriately, people will have absolutely no problem shoveling money your way. If your product is completely lacking on performance like arkham knight and ridiculous like slaughtering grounds, don't be surprised if people refund in droves.

Originally posted by dogui0777:

If your game is a good experience, people would treasure it in their libraries no matter how short it is.

Then surely we don't need the two hour limit, right guys? If people think the Skyrims and Witchers of the world are good experiences, they'll treasure them rather than refunding them.

[Spawn of Totoro]

I've commented on this in another thread a day or so ago. I'll just quote what I posted there.

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

If you watch this, you will find that the issue is being blown out of perportion and it is still too early to tell. Wait 6 months to a year for an accurate accounting, year being preferable.

https://www.youtube.com /watch?v=cP UToCNq-iA

Lol! Filter issues.

TotalBiscuit, The Cynical Brit
Devs Speak Out on Steam Refunds

If you wish to search for it on your own.

TotalBiscuit asked multiple indi developers. It is worth listening to.

[kdodds]

1. Best way to prevent returns is to make a game people don't want to return.

2. You don't pay tax if Steam collects the tax and pays it out. You also don't play tax unless you have revenue. If the game is returned, there is no revenue (EU may be different, they tax everything out the wazoo).

3. Include Trading Cards to offset the 2 hour limit.

4. Watch the video Spawn of Totoro mentioned.

Bottom line, have confidence in your product and build it so that your confidence is warranted. Reviews, blogs, etc. will be your post-release guide to expected refunds. And listen to them. Treat all criticism as constructive and a learning experience, even the unreasonable criticism is a learning experience. And lastly, if you're treating your game solely as a revenue stream, it will show. Writers don't write because it's profitable. They continue to write and quit their "day jobs" if and when it does become profitable.

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by Dusk of Oolacile:

The solution is making quality games people don't want to refund. Someone who rushes out a bad game deceiving people very much deserve the process to be backfired on them.

Make a good game, release a demo, make sure people know what they're buying, and you won't have such issues.

That logic still assumes people aren't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥... news flash. they make up a surprisingly large segment of the population.

To answer the question. The data is still out . SHoirt term problems but I foresee in the miod to long term there will be a levelling off as the ones likely to abuse will eventually be weeded out and have their refund righst revoked

[On Vacation]

There is no data out there that suggests the refund system has been detrimental overall or that it's being heavily abused currently.

The 'data' provided by developer's at the start of the refund system is statistically insignificant and most of it is either blatant lies or extremely misleading. Qwiboo's drop in sales had nothing to do with refunds, but the drop IS explained by their game going off sale. Beyond Gravity....go look at the reviews for the game and it explains very well why people are refunding. Naturally there was a large peak when the system was announced, but part of that was Steam's willingness to refund outside of the 2 week window, something that appears to have changed now. Farming trading cards then refunding may have also been an issue, but drop rates were changed to prevent/combat this.

There will always be people who abuse the system, but there are plenty of short game's that are still doing well. If you make a quality product you will retain customer's and build a fan base. That's something that is found in all markets. Will your game sell well or be mass refunded? We don't know, having not seen your game. But if you're confident in the quality of your game and believe it will appeal to the consumer base, then by all means release it. If you don't have confidence in these aspects, well then why would any of us? This idea that 'majority' of gamer's are thieves or jackasses, is a ridiculous notion that's based on nothing more than subjective opinion and cynicism. Albeit this opinion is typically one from 'consumers' themselves rather than developers.

[The End]

Originally posted by kdodds:

2. You don't pay tax if Steam collects the tax and pays it out. You also don't play tax unless you have revenue. If the game is returned, there is no revenue (EU may be different, they tax everything out the wazoo).

It's the same here in EU.

[YoWutSup]

If you are going to make a game with less than two hours of gameplay, I hope the game will cost as much as a cup of coffee.

[Dogui]

Then surely we don't need the two hour limit, right guys? If people think the Skyrims and Witchers of the world are good experiences, they'll treasure them rather than refunding them.

Maybe you should read the entire post lol

Anyway, most people would never refund Skyrim or The Witcher (maybe the first lol) even without the 2 hours limit. Sincerely, you need to be the worst type of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to refund a game that you possibly spent dozens of hours. This kind of people probably couldn't care less about having a Steam account and a legal copy of the game, for starters...