Gotham Knights latest update installs epic online services without your permission.. on steam...

cSg|mc-Hotsauce 27/set./2023 às 9:00

I assume you didn't know about the Tomb Raider reboot getting the same treatment a while back?

#16

Crazy Tiger 27/set./2023 às 9:02

Escrito originalmente por nodnol:
Escrito originalmente por Crazy Tiger:
My contract doesn't have such clauses, plus any clauses need to be specified.

If people want things changed, they need to take proper action, yes. Otherwise nothing will change to begin with. Making some rant posts on a forum is the same as doing absolutely nothing, after all. It might shed some frustration, but that's all.

What are forums for if not to discuss things? Do you think these forums are just for talking about things you like to talk about, you are free to leave this conversations and go elsewhere, you know this?

People are free to discuss things, sure. But if people want something changed, it requires more than some forum talk.

Escrito originalmente por nodnol:
Escrito originalmente por Crazy Tiger:
Stating how things are =/= defending. But it's a known around these forums that people have difficulty distinguishing the two, especially when it comes to "stuff I don't like".

Stating how things are in a thread where people are complaining about how things are is not at all useful! People don't have difficulty in distinguishing the difference, it is just that people such as yourself refuse to believe that differing opinions can exist without the other party being wrong.

It's as useful as the complaints are.

I have no problem with different opinions, nor do I see them as wrong. I'm not the one calling others "defending" just because I don't like their opinion.

Última edição por Crazy Tiger; 27/set./2023 às 9:03

#17

The Commendatore 27/set./2023 às 9:04

So?

Sounds like it simply uses Epic's online services for its coop.

#18

Large Tomatoes 27/set./2023 às 9:05

Escrito originalmente por Crazy Tiger:
People are free to discuss things, sure. But if people want something changed, it requires more than some forum talk.

Indeed, much like a concerted effort that almost always starts by people discussing the problem in public forums.

Escrito originalmente por Crazy Tiger:
It's as useful as the complaints are.

So redundancy all round then, thanks for your time.

Última edição por Large Tomatoes; 27/set./2023 às 9:05

#19

cSg|mc-Hotsauce 27/set./2023 às 9:06

Escrito originalmente por The Commendatore:
So?

Sounds like it simply uses Epic's online services for its coop.

For online crap, yes.

#20

RiO 27/set./2023 às 9:13

Escrito originalmente por wuddih:
9. Changes to Agreement and Game
WB Games may update this Agreement at its sole discretion, and you agree to the revised version of the EULA by continuing to play the Game after receiving such revised EULA.

WB Games may change, modify, suspend, or discontinue any aspect of the Game at any time. You have no interest, monetary or otherwise, in any feature or content contained in the Game.
you agreed to this with the purchase.

Including Epic Online Services as a required component creates an Epic account under the hood that is tied to the Steam account. That makes it a third-party online account, and makes it susceptible to - among others - the EU's legislation that all technical protection measures must be disclosed before purchase and are binding pre-contractual information that may not be altered before conclusion of the contract. For changes after conclusion of the contract, the EU refers to the Unfair Contract Terms Directive (UCTD) which may label terms of contract that allow such changes as potentially unfair and forces member states to uphold laws that ensure such terms cannot bind consumers.

As Epic Online Services includes analytics; profiling and telemetry as part of its package, that also makes it the domain of the GDPR. Which means any attempt to use terms of contract to force it in would run afoul of the guiding principle of said Directive: any term that is not individually negotiated (where any stock contract such as a EULA shall in its entirety be considered to be not individually negotiated) and that counter to good faith creates an unreasonable imbalance in the rights and obligations of the consumer and the other party to the contract, to the detriment of the consumer, shall be deemed an unfair term and shall not bind the consumer.

You can't simply force people to start handing you PII (incl. online identifiers such as the linked Steam account; all the behavioral analysis and profiling data; etc.) to continue to use a product. That would definitely be labeled as an unreasonable imbalance to the detriment of the consumer.

At some point, someone's going to sue over this -- and it won't be pretty for the publishers.

Case in point: under the UCTD Vattenfall in the Netherlands recently had a term in their agreements with consumers which enabled them to unilaterally raise prices, judged as unfair and had it annulled by the courts. An annulled term means you have to restore the status quo as if the term had never existed, which means they're now stuck repaying consumers a lot of dosh in former illegally collected payments.

It only takes one to set the precedent.
Sadly, video-games are a luxury-good and don't get a lot of attention outside of the helicopter-mom crowd pining for censorship and banning of gambling mechanics.

Última edição por RiO; 27/set./2023 às 9:21

#21

lsdninja 27/set./2023 às 9:25

Escrito originalmente por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:
For online crap, yes.

:summercat2023:

I'm not sure how much I care about any of it, but one of the things EOS does is enable cross-play between not only PC and the consoles (which, I'll admit, I'm not sure what the point is given the massive control imbalance between them...), but between the various PC store fronts as well. Valve is almost certainly capable of doing something similar itself, but is chossing not to, likely because it not only doesn't want to give people reason to leave the Steam ecosystem, but also doesn't have the leverage to get the console makers to play ball (Epic supposedly had to threaten Sony's UE licence to bring them to the table).

#22

cSg|mc-Hotsauce 27/set./2023 às 9:28

Escrito originalmente por lsdninja:
Escrito originalmente por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:
For online crap, yes.

I'm not sure how much I care about any of it, but one of the things EOS does is enable cross-play between not only PC and the consoles (which, I'll admit, I'm not sure what the point is given the massive control imbalance between them...), but between the various PC store fronts as well. Valve is almost certainly capable of doing something similar itself, but is chossing not to, likely because it not only doesn't want to give people reason to leave the Steam ecosystem, but also doesn't have the leverage to get the console makers to play ball (Epic supposedly had to threaten Sony's UE licence to bring them to the table).

It's not up to Valve what services are used. Just like Activision uses their own stuff.

#23

DRUNK_CANADIAN 27/set./2023 às 9:30

Don't worry that game is awful, they are doing you a favour, you should no longer play it and play something better and not infested with Epic instead....

(but all the same it does suck, I remember the day they wrecked Rocketleague)

#24

lsdninja 27/set./2023 às 9:31

Escrito originalmente por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:
It's not up to Valve what services are used. Just like Activision uses their own stuff.

:summercat2023:

Of course, but companies are using EOS because Valve doesn't offer a better alternative and this is what's making the r/♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kids mad.

#25

wuddih 27/set./2023 às 9:33

Escrito originalmente por lsdninja:
Escrito originalmente por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:
For online crap, yes.

:summercat2023:

I'm not sure how much I care about any of it, but one of the things EOS does is enable cross-play between not only PC and the consoles (which, I'll admit, I'm not sure what the point is given the massive control imbalance between them...), but between the various PC store fronts as well. Valve is almost certainly capable of doing something similar itself, but is chossing not to, likely because it not only doesn't want to give people reason to leave the Steam ecosystem, but also doesn't have the leverage to get the console makers to play ball (Epic supposedly had to threaten Sony's UE licence to bring them to the table).

EOS was also in the game before that update. they just added the service installer for some reason yesterday. it is not actually required to use EOS as it can be implemented as unattended middleware. it is used for steam/epic crossplay.

#26

AustrAlien2010 27/set./2023 às 10:01

Escrito originalmente por Chika Ogiue:
Escrito originalmente por AustrAlien2010:
The proof of the pudding is in the tasting.

So you're admitting you have no proof and are just throwing around unsubstantiated claims because you've been gas lit into hating Epic. Good to know.

No. I am neutral. I even like Epic games. I just consider it adware when extra programs are suddenly installed on your computer.

If people were okay with this, they wouldn't be complaining.

Its similar to Gator software that was sometimes included with patches. Nobody liked that, and everybody thought it was adware. Its when having a checkbox that reads: "Do you want to install Gator software when applying this patch?" No, of course not. If I wanted Gator software, I would have downloaded Gator software. I don't need to have it in my game patches. Its the same when a program suddenly installs a toolbar for Internet Explorer. Its just adware.

Última edição por AustrAlien2010; 27/set./2023 às 10:18

#27

Chika Ogiue 27/set./2023 às 10:25

Escrito originalmente por AustrAlien2010:
Its just adware.

Adware is a type of malicious software that secretly installs itself on your device and displays unwanted advertisements and pop-ups. In some cases, adware can even track your online behavior and display personalized ads. Adware is short for advertising supported software, designed to throw advertisements up on your screen, most often within a web browser.

Stop using terms incorrectly and people will stop calling you out on them.

Última edição por Chika Ogiue; 27/set./2023 às 10:26

#28

Chika Ogiue 27/set./2023 às 10:32

Escrito originalmente por AustrAlien2010:
Why did I even responded? Its clear you do not understand what I am talking about.

No, it's clear you don't understand the terms you're throwing out. Just because you don't like how something was allegedly patched in, it doesn't make it something it isn't. EOS is not bombarding you with adverts. It is NOT adware.

And deleting your post won't stop you being wrong.

Última edição por Chika Ogiue; 27/set./2023 às 10:33

#29

AustrAlien2010 27/set./2023 às 10:33

Where did I say Epic was adware? I'm just saying that when new programs are installed on your computer without your permission, I consider that adware.

Última edição por AustrAlien2010; 27/set./2023 às 10:34

#30

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