Valve breaking the law?

[purp]

i'm not a law expert neither am i from the US but this "pending wallet funds" seems to be an illegal practice that they are straight up breaking the law with, can someone with more knowledge confirm or deny?

[KalGimpa]

veracsthane の投稿を引用：

puffy. の投稿を引用：

if you have no clue plz dont reply

its not illegal its a common process with most electronic payment options but its not actually talked about fully. if you goto get gas they will put a hold same for basically any banking or paypal/patreon ect. you ussally dont notice it because there usually arent issues but it is thanks to fraud. most such things are a result of past fraud from crimnals.

fl had a multi million dollar food stamps fraud ring at one point. if they can scam it they will.

i like how they tell us they are not a lawyer yet argue every post

[Pierce Dalton]

Zefar の投稿を引用：

puffy. の投稿を引用：

a lot of ppl here really believe that its just some virtual worthless kids playmoney, i dont think you understand how easy it is to get that money straight on your bank account, should i show you my paypal transactions for you to believe me

its the same idiotic logic is why CS GO gambling was unregulated for so long, boomers cannot comprehend that these are not just virtual items but have real monetary value

Steam's economy is not separate from real world economy as much as you try to push that

It is STORE CREDIT because once you put it in the Steam wallet you can't get it out of there.

You can't get out as in, getting it back into your bank account or credit card or actually being able to cash it out directly through Steam.

If it was counted as real money Valve would be a bank but they are not. This is not something new and a ton of stores have store credit.


Items value have nothing to do with this either.

Actually, they do. Games cost real money and you can buy games with the money you get by selling items... and Valve has to pay the devs/pubs with real money.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

Pierce Dalton の投稿を引用：

Zefar の投稿を引用：

It is STORE CREDIT because once you put it in the Steam wallet you can't get it out of there.

You can't get out as in, getting it back into your bank account or credit card or actually being able to cash it out directly through Steam.

If it was counted as real money Valve would be a bank but they are not. This is not something new and a ton of stores have store credit.


Items value have nothing to do with this either.

Actually, they do. Games cost real money and you can buy games with the money you get by selling items... and Valve has to pay the devs/pubs with real money.

https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/78E3-7431-1E88-AD59

Wallet Funds aren't real money:

1. You can only use it on Steam.
2. You cannot transfer it, move it, or withdraw it.

That is the very definition of store credit.

Go ask Walmart if they take store credit from Amazon.

[Fiona the Gamer]

puffy. の投稿を引用：

i'm not a law expert neither am i from the US but this "pending wallet funds" seems to be an illegal practice that they are straight up breaking the law with, can someone with more knowledge confirm or deny?

No, not at all. Expect the annoying no connection part.

[Lystent]

I don't think Etsy got dinged by US feds for doing similar practice for longer periods with actual proceeds from sales of actual products. They did get bad publicity, at the least, though.

[Zefar]

Pierce Dalton の投稿を引用：

Actually, they do. Games cost real money and you can buy games with the money you get by selling items... and Valve has to pay the devs/pubs with real money.

Um that is still store credit. Buying a product with store credit does not make it to real money.

You still can't take it out.

[[N]ebsun]

puffy. の投稿を引用：

the moment they receive the item that i sold i should also have the money in return, either the item should be pending the same or neither

How ? what technology would allow such an instantaneous event to occur - such a thing is impossible.

[Wolfpig]

puffy. の投稿を引用：

C²C^Guyver |NZB| の投稿を引用：

"When a transaction appears as pending on your account it means it's not complete as it has not been fully processed. You're unable to stop or cancel the transaction until it is complete. It generally takes 3 to 5 business days to process a transaction, although it can sometimes take up to 10 business days or longer."


Banks do this with real money too.

How is that against the law?

except here it says that the reason why its pending coz the item was sold at an "unusual" price lol

They probably check manualy if that trade might be one to circumvent restrictions or if the Account might be phished or something like that.

[Tito Shivan]

Pierce Dalton の投稿を引用：

Actually, they do. Games cost real money and you can buy games with the money you get by selling items... and Valve has to pay the devs/pubs with real money.

You pay the game to Valve with the store credit you earned by selling items.
Then Valve pays the developer with actual money for that game sale.

But I'm pretty sure you already know this.

[JVC]

puffy. の投稿を引用：

the moment they receive the item that i sold i should also have the money in return, either the item should be pending the same or neither

"I should have" isn't an argument. That's just your personal preference.

Store credit can't be converted to physical money that's according to steam's terms of service.

And now you reveal that the transaction is on hold because a transaction had a weird market price.

That too makes perfect sense because criminals exist. Notably some people try to use systems like this for money laundering because they plan to sell store accounts later eventhough this is very much a violation of the terms of service.

So steam's computer halts a trade if it assumes that the traders aren't trading according to market prices but are attempting something else. If you bank sees a suspicious transaction on your bank account the bank will also interfere.

[wuddih]

puffy. の投稿を引用：

again i'm 99% sure withholding money like this by force is not allowed by law,

99% incorrect then.

it is Steam wallet funds aka in-store credit aka no longer real money for any other use, you are just allowed to use it on Steam under the conditions you agreed on.

there is zero applicable law how Valve is supposed to handle their own property with you being just virtually attached to it ... so the law will be what you agreed on.

C. Steam Wallet

Steam may make available an account balance associated with your Account (the "Steam Wallet"). The Steam Wallet is neither a bank account nor any kind of payment instrument. It functions as a prepaid balance to order Content and Services. You may place funds in your Steam Wallet up to a maximum amount determined by Valve, by credit card, prepaid card, promotional code, or any other payment method accepted by Steam. Within any twenty-four (24) hour period, the total amount stored in your Steam Wallet plus the total amount spent out of your Steam Wallet, in the aggregate, may not exceed US$2,000 or its equivalent in your applicable local currency -- attempted deposits into your Steam Wallet that exceed this threshold may not be credited to your Steam Wallet until your activity falls below this threshold. Valve may change or impose different Steam Wallet balance and usage limits from time to time.

You will be notified by e-mail of any change to the Steam Wallet balance and usage limits within sixty (60) calendar days before the entry into force of the change. Your continued use of your Steam Account more than thirty (30) calendar days after the entry into force of the changes will constitute your acceptance of the changes. If you don’t agree to the changes, your only remedy is to terminate your Steam Account or to cease use of your Steam Wallet. Valve shall not have any obligation to refund any credits remaining on your Steam Wallet in this case.

You may use Steam Wallet funds to order Subscriptions, including by making in-game orders where Steam Wallet transactions are enabled, and purchase Hardware. Subject to Section 3.I, funds added to the Steam Wallet are non-refundable and non-transferable. Steam Wallet funds do not constitute a personal property right, have no value outside Steam and can only be used to order Subscriptions and related content via Steam (including but not limited to games and other applications offered through the Steam Store, or in a Steam Subscription Marketplace) and Hardware. Steam Wallet funds have no cash value and are not exchangeable for cash. Steam Wallet funds that are deemed unclaimed property may be turned over to the applicable authority.

if you need any explanation for any terminology in this, feel free to ask a lawyer of your trust, this is really basic stuff, so any lawyer can give you an answer.

anyway, you were informed of any changes to your Stem wallet. you have an email for the pending balance. agreement fulfilled.

[rawWwRrr]

Pending funds happen all of the time for various reasons. Car rentals, hotel reservations, etc., your credit card would be "charged" for the length of your reservation, maybe even a few more, to ensure payment upon check out which would then be replaced with the actual payment for service rendered. Returning items for a refund to a store, or even to Amazon, may take several days before that money shows back up on the payment account, and then could be further held by the financial institution before they confirm receipt of those funds. Doing contract work on a house, the owner may place funds in escrow to pay out on completion of the job, or at certain intervals, which may force the contractor to use their own money to pay for tools and materials in lieu of that payment.

There are many other examples, all perfectly legal.

Do we like it? No. But that's the world we live in.

[Phénomènes Mystiques]

Mad Scientist の投稿を引用：

Much like bank transactions, things don't happen instantly.

Unless it is J.P. Morgan Chase, the largest bank in the world, in which I can transfer thousands of dollars in a mere 5 seconds 24/7/365 days.

[Boblin the Goblin]

puffy. の投稿を引用：

Mad Scientist の投稿を引用：

It has earned people bans, and you'll notice the same CS scam sites are recycled and re-named with different youtubers being paid to promote such scam/phishing sites.

In some videos you may also notice if they show their account, it's not usually their main account they put at risk unless they believe such sites are legitimate, but most users usually lose over time to unwanted item/skin loss. There's a reason why many sites are outright censored on Steam. For the most part the users accept when going off-site that they accept all the risks, but it doesn't excuse commercial activity nor advertising scam/phishing sites. YouTube is very slow to take action against creators that advertise scam & phishing sites. As for them not being banned right away on Steam; doesn't excuse what they do.

Use at your own risk, because it will usually not go well.

yeah i'm just gonna block you, you are talking way too much nonsense

He isn't the one talking nonsense.

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

puffy. の投稿を引用：

first it was 12 hours then 24 then 2 days and now we reached the:

"Funds from this sale will be held by Steam for up to five days. In the meantime, the funds will be included in your pending wallet balance. In some situations, Steam Support may reverse the transaction and return the item to your Steam Inventory."

five day lmao cant wait for the month hold only a matter of time before we have that

Since it was implemented, it was always "up to 5 days." It could be less but the important part is "up to" never changed.

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/3821910251179906853/#c3821910251192863027