Steam is not a place for Sex games

[Mr White]

I notice a lot of Sex related games on steam. No offence but i don't think Steam is the place for them.

[Boblin the Goblin]

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

The problem is that Valve has the usual "I swear I'm eighteen" button you click, and nothing else. This honor system allows anyone and everyone to access hardcore porn. If Valve wanted to actually keep this trash in the realm of adults alone, they would require you to mail, E-Mail, fax, or call in a photo ID to prove your age.

This is illegal in many places and also doesn't account for those who do not have an ID. What Valve is doing is what is legally required of them.

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

The problem is that this will not happen unless the government forces it, which they won't without a clause to make the govenrment surveillance state bigger. Every time they dom, they always add some Big Government surveillance state clause that abolishes Virtual Private Networks or removes encryption, using fighting that as an excuse.

Which is not a good thing.

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

For example, Tiktok needs to be banned entirely. However, instead of Congress writing a bill that targets and sanctions Tiktok, the bill they proposed would give the Department of Commerce the unlimited ability to remove any foreign mobile App it doesn't like using vague and undefined "muh national security". It was also used as an attempt to segue into banning Virtual Private Networks and encryption, AGAIN.

TikTok should not be banned from consumer devices because of the door it opens up that the current proposed bill is using. It isn't being used to ban VPNs or Encryption. The bill would make it illegal to use those to access restricted content, which is already a thing.

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

Until this changes, it is the job of the parents to protect their children from this trash and not give them access to a means to purchase such things.

Correct. It is the parent's job and that shouldn't change.

[TurtleShroom]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

This is illegal in many places and also doesn't account for those who do not have an ID. What Valve is doing is what is legally required of them.

If you buy a gun online, you have to prove your age and have it sent to a licensed dealer. If you buy alcohol online, you have to prove your age at the point of delivery with ID. This does not apply to porn. It's why any child can access any hardcore porn anywhere on the Internet. Porn sites do not require you to prove your age.

The average child encounters porn at fourteen, and there is no separation between "Playboy" porn and the most grotesque Hentai imaginable. Pornography should be restricted as much as humanly possible, or at minimum, have actual means to verify the person viewing it is eighteen or over.

They should be required by law to prove that they are over eighteen. A government ID, student ID, drivers' license, heck, proof of age through billing addresses and birth certificates, and so on, could also be used to verify age. That's not to mention that all American states give out ID's for free to those that do not have them.

At the very least, Valve could require all porn depicted in their hosted games be exclusively consensual and between consenting adults, but they won't even do that.

[TurtleShroom]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

TikTok should not be banned from consumer devices because of the door it opens up that the current proposed bill is using. It isn't being used to ban VPNs or Encryption. The bill would make it illegal to use those to access restricted content, which is already a thing.

That is an effective ban. If the government can block VPN's from encrypting for one thing, it can and will block it for everything, likely by requiring a back door. Remember that the FBI fabrciated a character assassination on Trump and lied to the courts to get fake warrants. They infiltrated Extraordinary Latin Mass dioceses of the Catholic Church with sting operations and surveillance. I need not remind you what Snowden and Musk revealed about blanket surveillance.

Congress will never propose a bill that addresses the problem alone, because they will always take the iniative to enlarge the security state and clamp down on people's liberty. Porn is not among that liberty, but by glob, VPN's and encryption sure are!

[Boblin the Goblin]

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

This is illegal in many places and also doesn't account for those who do not have an ID. What Valve is doing is what is legally required of them.

If you buy a gun online, you have to prove your age and have it sent to a licensed dealer. If you buy alcohol online, you have to prove your age at the point of delivery with ID. This does not apply to porn. It's why any child can access any hardcore porn anywhere on the Internet. Porn sites do not require you to prove your age.

A gun is very different than pornographic material. They are not comparable. It is the parent's responsibility to monitor their child's activity. It isn't the government's, a corporation, or anyone else but their legal guardians. There are plenty of tools to do so that are made easy explicitly for parents to setup with little to no technical knowledge.

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

The average child encounters porn at fourteen, and there is no separation between "Playboy" porn and the most grotesque Hentai imaginable. Pornography should be restricted as much as humanly possible, or at minimum, have actual means to verify the person viewing it is eighteen or over.

It is already restricted. It's still the guardian's responsibility to monitor their child's internet usage.

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

They should be required by law to prove that they are over eighteen. A government ID, student ID, drivers' license, heck, proof of age through billing addresses and birth certificates, and so on, could also be used to verify age. That's not to mention that all American states give out ID's for free to those that do not have them.

You are advocating for the people to give up very sensitive information to be stored because even though they are an adult because of parent's not being proper parents. Not to mention where this information would be stored to be constantly verified, who would have access to this information, and how this information could be used against those who submit it.

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

At the very least, Valve could require all porn depicted in their hosted games be exclusively consensual and between consenting adults, but they won't even do that.

They have rules for the adult content in their games. If you feel a game breaks those rules, report it. You not liking the look/style does not mean it breaks those rules.

[Boblin the Goblin]

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

TikTok should not be banned from consumer devices because of the door it opens up that the current proposed bill is using. It isn't being used to ban VPNs or Encryption. The bill would make it illegal to use those to access restricted content, which is already a thing.

That is an effective ban. If the government can block VPN's from encrypting for one thing, it can and will block it for everything, likely by requiring a back door. Remember that the FBI fabrciated a character assassination on Trump and lied to the courts to get fake warrants. They infiltrated Extraordinary Latin Mass dioceses of the Catholic Church with sting operations and surveillance. I need not remind you what Snowden and Musk revealed about blanket surveillance.

Again, the TikTok bill will not stop VPN encryption. It does nothing to VPN encryption. It only makes it illegal to use a VPN to access restricted content, which is already a thing for the most part. I don't like the bill either, but misinformation about it doesn't help stop it.

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

Congress will never propose a bill that addresses the problem alone, because they will always take the iniative to enlarge the security state and clamp down on people's liberty. Porn is not among that liberty, but by glob, VPN's and encryption sure are!

Porn is upon that liberty. Porn is literally protected as a 1st amendment right as a freedom of expression.

[Taebrythn]

just because you "feel" like it doesn't belong make it a thing. you have to opt in to see them.

[TurtleShroom]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

Porn is upon that liberty. Porn is literally protected as a 1st amendment right as a freedom of expression.

Sexual obscenity is not speech or expression. Never has been.[www.justice.gov]

It does not only apply solely to pornography produced without the consent of the parties. It is prohibited, period, and our country simply refuses to enforce that law. It is illegal to distribute any obscene matter, in any way, to a person under the age of the age of majority.

American laws on sexual obscenity apply only to people under the age of majority when the porn involves consenting adults, and to any form of non-consensual porn or porn not featuring consenting adults whatsoever.

[Skorne Tet'Zu]

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

Porn is upon that liberty. Porn is literally protected as a 1st amendment right as a freedom of expression.

Sexual obscenity is not speech or expression. Never has been.[www.justice.gov]

Sexual Obscenity is NOT Protected... but Not All Porn is Sexual Obscenity. So any Porn, which is not deemed as Sexual Obscenity, is Literally Protected by the the 1st Amendment.

[Boblin the Goblin]

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

Porn is upon that liberty. Porn is literally protected as a 1st amendment right as a freedom of expression.

Sexual obscenity is not speech or expression. Never has been.[www.justice.gov]

It does not only apply solely to pornography produced without the consent of the parties. It is prohibited, period, and our country simply refuses to enforce that law. It is illegal to distribute any obscene matter, in any way, to a person under the age of the age of majority.

American laws on sexual obscenity apply only to people under the age of majority when the porn involves consenting adults, and to any form of non-consensual porn or porn not featuring consenting adults whatsoever.

That speculation is under Child Pornagraphy specifically. It isn't porn in general.

Otherwise there would be no porn industry.

In fact, you contradict yourself. You say porn is illegal outright and then specify obscenity laws apply only to those to pornographic material being produce of or shown to minors.

[Realigo Actual]

Skorne Tet'Zu の投稿を引用：

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

Sexual obscenity is not speech or expression. Never has been.[www.justice.gov]

Sexual Obscenity is NOT Protected... but Not All Porn is Sexual Obscenity. So any Porn, which is not deemed as Sexual Obscenity, is Literally Protected by the the 1st Amendment.

But obscenity as defined in US law is inherently anti-sexual. The US standard defines all porn as obscene, including non-explicit (what does that mean? no penetrada?) porn. This is one of the things that went into porn having two-bit narratives. It was to try to armour up and claim artistic merit.

But the US doesn't prosecute. I would categorize modern-day porn as being pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ obscene, tantamount to human rights violations, but it is allowed to continue while even interestingly alluring depictions of women are removed from art elsewhere.

[crunchyfrog]

TurtleShroom の投稿を引用：

The problem is that Valve has the usual "I swear I'm eighteen" button you click, and nothing else. This honor system allows anyone and everyone to access hardcore porn. If Valve wanted to actually keep this trash in the realm of adults alone, they would require you to mail, E-Mail, fax, or call in a photo ID to prove your age.

The problem is that this will not happen unless the government forces it, which they won't without a clause to make the govenrment surveillance state bigger. Every time they dom, they always add some Big Government surveillance state clause that abolishes Virtual Private Networks or removes encryption, using fighting that as an excuse.

For example, Tiktok needs to be banned entirely. However, instead of Congress writing a bill that targets and sanctions Tiktok, the bill they proposed would give the Department of Commerce the unlimited ability to remove any foreign mobile App it doesn't like using vague and undefined "muh national security". It was also used as an attempt to segue into banning Virtual Private Networks and encryption, AGAIN.

Until this changes, it is the job of the parents to protect their children from this trash and not give them access to a means to purchase such things.

You';re likely missing the point and you're certainly posioning the well.

YOu claim that this soft porn stuff is bad - there's zero evidence of that.

The age gate is how it is as a legal disclaimer. It's to push the burden of poroof on the user and not the provider. That's how the law works and it works pretty well.

An email would not solve the issue as you think.

[Skorne Tet'Zu]

First I want to state that this conversation has been Extremely One-Sided as it only speaks of American Standards, Beliefs and Thoughts; and Yet, Steam is an International Community. So however You may feel based on U.S. Standards... or whatever U.S. Laws you may consider, this Does Not and Cannot represent an International Community.

Now...with that stated:

Actual Sprinkle Taters の投稿を引用：

...The US standard defines all porn as obscene, including non-explicit (what does that mean? no penetrada?) porn....

I really DisLike it when I'm wrong... but I am Wrong :(

I'm not good at links, but this link:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/10/how-laws-die.html

...is an Article explaining why the U.S. allows a Blatant Felony to go unopposed.

And this link is the Law (U.S. Federal Law):

https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/citizens-guide-us-federal-law-obscenity#:~:text=Federal%20law%20prohibits%20the%20possession,borders%20for%20purposes%20of%20distribution.

The above should be a link to the below; if not .. search: DOJ Citizens Guide to U.S. Federal Law of Obscenity

18 U.S.C. § 1460- Possession with intent to sell, and sale, of obscene matter on Federal property
18 U.S.C. § 1461- Mailing obscene or crime-inciting matter
18 U.S.C. § 1462- Importation or transportation of obscene matters
18 U.S.C. § 1463- Mailing indecent matter on wrappers or envelopes
18 U.S.C. § 1464- Broadcasting obscene language
18 U.S.C. § 1465- Transportation of obscene matters for sale or distribution
18 U.S.C. § 1466- Engaging in the business of selling or transferring obscene matter
18 U.S.C. § 1466A- Obscene visual representations of the sexual abuse of children
18 U.S.C. § 1467- Criminal forfeiture
18 U.S.C. § 1468- Distributing obscene material by cable or subscription television
18 U.S.C. § 1469- Presumptions
18 U.S.C. § 1470- Transfer of obscene material to minors
18 U.S.C. § 2252B Misleading domain names on the Internet
18 U.S.C. § 2252C Misleading words or digital images on the Internet

The U.S. Supreme Court established the test that judges and juries use to determine whether matter is obscene in three major cases: Miller v. California, 413 U.S. 15, 24-25 (1973); Smith v. United States, 431 U.S. 291, 300-02, 309 (1977); and Pope v. Illinois, 481 U.S. 497, 500-01 (1987). The three-pronged Miller test is as follows:

Whether the average person, applying contemporary adult community standards, finds that the matter, taken as a whole, appeals to prurient interests (i.e., an erotic, lascivious, abnormal, unhealthy, degrading, shameful, or morbid interest in nudity, sex, or excretion);
Whether the average person, applying contemporary adult community standards, finds that the matter depicts or describes sexual conduct in a patently offensive way (i.e., ultimate sexual acts, normal or perverted, actual or simulated, masturbation, excretory functions, lewd exhibition of the genitals, or sado-masochistic sexual abuse); and
Whether a reasonable person finds that the matter, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
Any material that satisfies this three-pronged test may be found obscene.

Federal law prohibits the possession with intent to sell or distribute obscenity, to send, ship, or receive obscenity, to import obscenity, and to transport obscenity across state borders for purposes of distribution.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Skorne Tet'Zu の投稿を引用：

First I want to state that this conversation has been Extremely One-Sided as it only speaks of American Standards, Beliefs and Thoughts; and Yet, Steam is an International Community. So however You may feel based on U.S. Standards... or whatever U.S. Laws you may consider, this Does Not and Cannot represent an International Community.

Now...with that stated:

Actual Sprinkle Taters の投稿を引用：

...The US standard defines all porn as obscene, including non-explicit (what does that mean? no penetrada?) porn....

I really DisLike it when I'm wrong... but I am Wrong :(

I'm not good at links, but this link:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/10/how-laws-die.html

...is an Article explaining why the U.S. allows a Blatant Felony to go unopposed.

And this link is the Law (U.S. Federal Law):

https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/citizens-guide-us-federal-law-obscenity#:~:text=Federal%20law%20prohibits%20the%20possession,borders%20for%20purposes%20of%20distribution.

The above should be a link to the below; if not .. search: DOJ Citizens Guide to U.S. Federal Law of Obscenity

18 U.S.C. § 1460- Possession with intent to sell, and sale, of obscene matter on Federal property
18 U.S.C. § 1461- Mailing obscene or crime-inciting matter
18 U.S.C. § 1462- Importation or transportation of obscene matters
18 U.S.C. § 1463- Mailing indecent matter on wrappers or envelopes
18 U.S.C. § 1464- Broadcasting obscene language
18 U.S.C. § 1465- Transportation of obscene matters for sale or distribution
18 U.S.C. § 1466- Engaging in the business of selling or transferring obscene matter
18 U.S.C. § 1466A- Obscene visual representations of the sexual abuse of children
18 U.S.C. § 1467- Criminal forfeiture
18 U.S.C. § 1468- Distributing obscene material by cable or subscription television
18 U.S.C. § 1469- Presumptions
18 U.S.C. § 1470- Transfer of obscene material to minors
18 U.S.C. § 2252B Misleading domain names on the Internet
18 U.S.C. § 2252C Misleading words or digital images on the Internet

The U.S. Supreme Court established the test that judges and juries use to determine whether matter is obscene in three major cases: Miller v. California, 413 U.S. 15, 24-25 (1973); Smith v. United States, 431 U.S. 291, 300-02, 309 (1977); and Pope v. Illinois, 481 U.S. 497, 500-01 (1987). The three-pronged Miller test is as follows:

Whether the average person, applying contemporary adult community standards, finds that the matter, taken as a whole, appeals to prurient interests (i.e., an erotic, lascivious, abnormal, unhealthy, degrading, shameful, or morbid interest in nudity, sex, or excretion);
Whether the average person, applying contemporary adult community standards, finds that the matter depicts or describes sexual conduct in a patently offensive way (i.e., ultimate sexual acts, normal or perverted, actual or simulated, masturbation, excretory functions, lewd exhibition of the genitals, or sado-masochistic sexual abuse); and
Whether a reasonable person finds that the matter, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
Any material that satisfies this three-pronged test may be found obscene.

Federal law prohibits the possession with intent to sell or distribute obscenity, to send, ship, or receive obscenity, to import obscenity, and to transport obscenity across state borders for purposes of distribution.

Again, the law isn't 'applied' because pornography is protected.

These obscenity laws are applied to material that is actual harmful content. Stuff done without consent or to those who legally cannot consent.

Trust me, if the government wanted to stop the distribution of porn, they would've done so long before the internet.

Also, Steam is US based so they follow US laws on content. If a country bans a certain type of game, the developer will simply not allow it to be sold there.

[Skorne Tet'Zu]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

Again, the law isn't 'applied' because pornography is protected.

These obscenity laws are applied to material that is actual harmful content. Stuff done without consent or to those who legally cannot consent.

Trust me, if the government wanted to stop the distribution of porn, they would've done so long before the internet.

Also, Steam is US based so they follow US laws on content. If a country bans a certain type of game, the developer will simply not allow it to be sold there.

Believe me I Want to agree with you... but by the Written Word of the Law it IS Illegal. This made no sense to me which is why I then tried to figure out if the Law says it's illegal then why is the Porn Industry a Multi-Billion Dollar a Year Industry. That is when I found the Article that I linked above. This is an Excerpt from that Article:

<i>Today, despite these laws, there are very few prosecutions centered on mainstream adult pornography. Over the last decade, and without the repeal of a single law, the United States has quietly and effectively put its adult obscenity laws into a deep coma, tolerating their widespread violation with little notice or fanfare. Today’s obscenity enforcement has a new face: It is targeted against “harmful” porn (that is, child pornography and highly violent or abusive materials) and “public” porn, or indecency in the public media. </i> (How do you use Italics) :(

So for the Most Part... I, and most of Mainstream Americans agree that what you are stating is the way it 'Should' Be; but as to the exact Law... it is Illegal.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Skorne Tet'Zu の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

Again, the law isn't 'applied' because pornography is protected.

These obscenity laws are applied to material that is actual harmful content. Stuff done without consent or to those who legally cannot consent.

Trust me, if the government wanted to stop the distribution of porn, they would've done so long before the internet.

Also, Steam is US based so they follow US laws on content. If a country bans a certain type of game, the developer will simply not allow it to be sold there.

Believe me I Want to agree with you... but by the Written Word of the Law it IS Illegal. This made no sense to me which is why I then tried to figure out if the Law says it's illegal then why is the Porn Industry a Multi-Billion Dollar a Year Industry. That is when I found the Article that I linked above. This is an Excerpt from that Article:

<i>Today, despite these laws, there are very few prosecutions centered on mainstream adult pornography. Over the last decade, and without the repeal of a single law, the United States has quietly and effectively put its adult obscenity laws into a deep coma, tolerating their widespread violation with little notice or fanfare. Today’s obscenity enforcement has a new face: It is targeted against “harmful” porn (that is, child pornography and highly violent or abusive materials) and “public” porn, or indecency in the public media. </i> (How do you use Italics) :(

So for the Most Part... I, and most of Mainstream Americans agree that what you are stating is the way it 'Should' Be; but as to the exact Law... it is Illegal.

It's done that way because it has been decidedly rules as free speech.

You are citing an opinion that is removing all context to the law.