Can Steam take my games like Amazon can take Kindle books?

[Eccentric Gentleman]

Yesterday I found out that Amazon can remove purchased books form anyone's Kindle library and even remotely go into anyone's Kindle and remove any books contained on it. And they can do this at any time for any reason they want.

This was very concerning to me, Not only because I had just bought a Kindle (which I will now be returning) but also because I have been using steam for years and almost all my games are on it. What's more, some PC games are only available as Steam downloads. The only hard copies were for consoles, and I gave up being a console gamer because console games are often only compatible with that console, they stop making them eventually and don't always include backward compatibility for new models.

I've done some internet searching to find out if Steam is similar to Kindle.
Some people say it is, that we don't own what we buy and if Steam shut down we'd lose all our games. But I think that last part only applies to online multiplayer.
Others seem to say that Steam cares more then Amazon, that they promise to create a "permanent offline mode" if they go under.

But I couldn't find anything either way to answer the question, can Steam take my games remotely? So I put the question to you.

[Brian9824]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ShelLuser:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από brian9824:

Are you buying it thru the kindle or the store? I buy kindle books all the time from the website with my amazon credit.

The website... and the moment I try to use "1-click" it demands that I provide a credit card. I also verified this with Amazon themselves last year and they confirmed that you cannot buy Kindle books without a creditcard. So I can only assume that the account you're using has one linked.

Yeah, i have a credit card linked but it always pulls from store credit first. Have you tried getting a pre-paid $25 visa card or something and linking that to activate 1 click?

[Bee🐝]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Eccentric Gentleman:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bee:

Steam will only ever pull/revoke a game from your library if there was some kind of fraud involved. For example, a game was bought from a shady third party site that sells dodgy keys or if a chargeback was made. Even then, Steam won't actually delete those files from your PC, you just won't be able to play the game.

Calibre (https://calibre-ebook.com/) is a popular free program that's used to organise ebooks and does like 599 through with plugins. In the case of the Kindle, it provides a logical and WAY easier method to move ebooks and documents from your Kindle to your PC. It also allows you to convert books to different formats; great if you have two different brands of e-readers using different file formats or, if like myself, you need to convert AZW3 to epubs for accessibility reasons (text to speech). It will also allow you to locally backup your amazon library so you always have a copy of your books even if they do get pulled.

Edit: Anyway, Amazon has only ever deleted files in extreme cases so the chances that that happens to you is minuscule.

Is Calibre legal?

It's legal. At its core Calibre is just a very well made GUI interface for a file system. Other features are added by the plugins. People use it all the time and I don't think it's ever been "challenged" by any of the big ereader manufacturers.

Calibre obviously is far more useful to people who have Paperwhites and Oasis', since e-ink is amazing but pretty slow.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ShelLuser:

I also have a Kindle (the only lame part is that you can only buy books if you have a credit card) and well, I doubt that Amazon would "just" remove books.

Last year I requested a refund for a specific book because I really didn't like it. Because I pretty much never do that my request got granted. Yet during the procedure I was explicitly requested to remove the book from my Kindle. I sincerely doubt that Amazon would make such a request if they considered it common practice to "just" override what's on your Kindle.

Amazon has removed books a few times (google the infamous Orwell incident), but like I told OP, it was for very specific reasons, and I don't believe they've done it in ages; the outcry was pretty loud. Also, they obviously refunded the removals as well.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ShelLuser:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από brian9824:

Are you buying it thru the kindle or the store? I buy kindle books all the time from the website with my amazon credit.

The website... and the moment I try to use "1-click" it demands that I provide a credit card. I also verified this with Amazon themselves last year and they confirmed that you cannot buy Kindle books without a creditcard. So I can only assume that the account you're using has one linked.

That's so weird, I can buy books from my Paperwhite (just did again it to check) and I don't have a credit card linked to my account, just my debit.

Could it be a country specific thing?

[Crashed]

I was never told when app #12220 was revoked from my library due to it being rolled into app #12210. 12220 is still installed but has a purchase button in my library leading to a defunct Store page with a disclaimer about the merge.

[JellyPuff]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Crashed:

I was never told when app #12220 was revoked from my library due to it being rolled into app #12210. 12220 is still installed but has a purchase button in my library leading to a defunct Store page with a disclaimer about the merge.

The games you're talking about are Grand Theft Auto IV and it's standalone expansions, which have been merged into "GTA IV - Complete Edition".
The reason why is licensing of IP for the use in videogames (brands, music, etc) which leads to all kinds of future problems.
Rockstar just handles this in the worst way possible, by removing the expired licenses in their games (usually entire radiostations in GTA games) and patching them out even for people, who have purchased the game before any licenses expired.

This is a whole different problem. Imagine buying a car, who had a license with Sony to ship them with Sony LED screens and a PS5, but years later, the car dealer comes to your house and rips those things out, because their deal with Sony expired.

At the least the modding community for GTA games provides "downgraders", which revert the game's version to the one, you've legally bought. A bit of a grey-area stalemate. Rockstar/T2 seem to tolerate these, while no one seemed to have legally challenged Rockstar yet on removing value/content from games through patches, probably due to downgraders existing.

What usually happens with games, that have expiring licenses, is that they are simply being de-listed from stores (and either given away or are being heavily discounted right before that). People who already own these games before getting de-listed get to keep them.

Though, if an online-only game were to suddenly be shut-down and de-listed, you can see the problems with that.

"Games as a service" is fraud by AccursedFarms (aka Ross Scott or the "Freeman's Mind"-guy).
Also talks about game "ownership".

[crunchyfrog]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bee:

[

That's so weird, I can buy books from my Paperwhite (just did again it to check) and I don't have a credit card linked to my account, just my debit.

Could it be a country specific thing?

It'll often just use whatever payment method you last used or stored earlier. My amazon account has three payment methods stored on it. My normal debit card, my wife's debit card (which I haven't used in a few years), and my mother's credit card (which I used once about 12 years ago).

So it doesn't surprise me at all if it's simply using your debit card.

[happy]

Literally any company can do whatever the ♥♥♥♥ they want to your account and whats on it these days, its in every EULA... Its just a precaution though incase they need to act, they have the legal backup for it, and dont have to deal with potential issues.

[Bee🐝]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από crunchyfrog:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bee:

[

That's so weird, I can buy books from my Paperwhite (just did again it to check) and I don't have a credit card linked to my account, just my debit.

Could it be a country specific thing?

It'll often just use whatever payment method you last used or stored earlier. My amazon account has three payment methods stored on it. My normal debit card, my wife's debit card (which I haven't used in a few years), and my mother's credit card (which I used once about 12 years ago).

So it doesn't surprise me at all if it's simply using your debit card.

Oh, you're totally right. It's just weird that ShelLuster was told by Amazon support a credit card was required (see post above) to buy kindle books.

My only other guess is that it's got something to do with the Netherlands and their rather unique card system, but ShelLuster will obviously know more about that.

[crunchyfrog]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bee:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από crunchyfrog:

It'll often just use whatever payment method you last used or stored earlier. My amazon account has three payment methods stored on it. My normal debit card, my wife's debit card (which I haven't used in a few years), and my mother's credit card (which I used once about 12 years ago).

So it doesn't surprise me at all if it's simply using your debit card.

Oh, you're totally right. It's just weird that ShelLuster was told by Amazon support a credit card was required (see post above) to buy kindle books.

My only other guess is that it's got something to do with the Netherlands and their rather unique card system, but ShelLuster will obviously know more about that.

Oh sorry, I must have misunderstood that.

Yeah, I think you're probably right there. Different countries do have different ways indeed. Here in Britain compared to the US, debit cards are more widely used. So perhaps they just spoke "credit card" as to mean just any general card.

[Paratech2008]

Just a heads up games publishers / devs can revoke keys for any reason and I have had keys revoked because they got into fights with online stores.

It's a shame they aren't held accountable when they are at fault and decide to revoke keys because they dislike a deal they made with a store...

[Brian9824]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Paratech2008:

Just a heads up games publishers / devs can revoke keys for any reason and I have had keys revoked because they got into fights with online stores.

It's a shame they aren't held accountable when they are at fault and decide to revoke keys because they dislike a deal they made with a store...

That's not any reason, that is the store not paying them and committing theft and is incredibly rare with legit stores

[Paratech2008]

The stores have paid them in many cases, they just didn't like the deal and revoked keys out of spite.

It's happened with Fanatical and Groupees. Both stores are legit...

[JellyPuff]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Paratech2008:

The stores have paid them in many cases, they just didn't like the deal and revoked keys out of spite.

It's happened with Fanatical and Groupees. Both stores are legit...

That's a surefire way for people to never buy your games ever again. Also, if you abuse this system as a developer, VALVe might actually lift a finger for once and possible just give you the boot.
Pretty much all revoked keys for Fanatical and Groupee bundles were unredeemed and haven't been activated on Steam yet. In fact, some of them can't be activated anymore, because VALVe gave those devs the boot for other reasons.
Still pretty bad, but a matter for the Fanatical or Groupee support, if you happen to be affected. They will often offer replacement keys.

Also, looking at list of such games...it's all shovelware at best and asset-flips or baby's first videogame at worst.

Edit: https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/Dgscb/a-list-of-games-whose-unredeemed-keys-were-revoked

[An Easy Target]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Ganger:

And if steam was ever to shut down, you would most likely lose access to all the content you have paid for.

This is definitely my biggest concern. It'd be great if, when the time comes, for a swan song to loyal customers a means was offered - either as final customer service or for one last sale- to backup every game in a way that comes with its own offline Steam verification.

Idealistic, I know, but let me dream.

[JellyPuff]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από An Easy Target:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Ganger:

And if steam was ever to shut down, you would most likely lose access to all the content you have paid for.

This is definitely my biggest concern.

Don't worry. In the extremely low likelyhood of Steam actually shutting down, do you honestly think, other corporations wouldn't salivate at the thought of buying out VALVe's entire ecosystem developed for over 15 years with hundreds of millions of active users?

There's also a "plan" in case Steam ever has to shut down to at least ensure people still have access to their library. At least, that what VALVe support is telling you, if you ask them about your concerns about losing access to your library.

[Ganger]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από JellyPuff:

Don't worry. In the extremely low likelyhood of Steam actually shutting down, do you honestly think, other corporations wouldn't salivate at the thought of buying out VALVe's entire ecosystem developed for over 15 years with hundreds of millions of active users?

There's also a "plan" in case Steam ever has to shut down to at least ensure people still have access to their library. At least, that what VALVe support is telling you, if you ask them about your concerns about losing access to your library.

I don't take anything for granted. There is always that chance one day valve goes bust and takes steam with them. I just play for the moment, get my monies worth and be happy. I stopped buying games in sales to add to my backlog due to this very reason.

End of the day, valve doesn't own 3rd party games on steam and it would be upto the developer or publisher to let you continue access or/and downloads of those games.