BUG in steam purchasing system - Double charge

[tiglo]

Steam sent a mail after purchase that the "purchase failed" and that I should "try again". After the repurchase it turned out that they charged TWICE.

How do I get a refund?

Tried 3x through their support site. They don't READ the tickets - denied 3x ">2Hrs playing time"

Any way to get help, or should I bring in the big guns and sue them?

Anyone else with similar problems?

https://twitter.com/fixsteam1

[cinedine]

(a) make sure the amount is actually charged instead of put on hold. Hold will drop after some time.
(b) usually the business will cancel the charge or refund you automatically
(c) refunds are the wrong approach. Make a manual ticket. Support -> Purchases -> I was charged the wrong amount/I have questions about this purchase

[Washell]

If the first purchase is listed as failed here: https://store.steampowered.com/account/history/

You don't need to do or contact anything. The money is on hold and will be returned to your account automatically within a few days.

[tiglo]

- It was charged to a debit card, and I can NOT contest it like with a credit card.

- The charge is NOT on hold

- The first purchase is NOT listed as failed

- After the first purchase I received an email from Steam:

<quote>
Hello xxx
There was an error with a recent Steam purchase.
We've saved your cart (including discounts) for 72 hours so you can attempt your purchase again.
Click here to repurchase. This cart will expire on 24 Jul @ 8:00pm CEST.
</quote>

AFTER this email I had no access to the game so I retried, and that purchase went well
ONLY then it turned out that the first purchase went through

This is clearly a bug in their system

[ShelLuser]

Originally posted by tiglo:

This is clearly a bug in their system

No it's not.

These situations can happen when the payment method is delayed, or... if you didn't wait for a purchase to come through (with some payment methods it can take up to an hour(!)) and instead try again and again.

In fact, there are actually failsaves in place which prevent you from making too many purchases quickly after each other, especially when a payment method failed.

Alas; just follow the steps mentioned above and it'll be corrected soon enough.

[tiglo]

Yes it is a BUG

The first purchase was:

Purchased: Jul 21 @ 5:06pm

I couldn't play the game and waited 3 hours, THEN I got a mail:

7/21/20, 8:00 PM

THEN I repurchased:

Purchased: Jul 21 @ 8:25pm

So there was ample time after the first purchase

and NO the failsaves did not work.

I went through the support site 3x now, every time I get a mail denying a refund

[RiO]

Originally posted by ShelLuser:

Originally posted by tiglo:

This is clearly a bug in their system

No it's not.

These situations can happen when the payment method is delayed, or... if you didn't wait for a purchase to come through (with some payment methods it can take up to an hour(!)) and instead try again and again.

In fact, there are actually failsaves in place which prevent you from making too many purchases quickly after each other, especially when a payment method failed.

Delayed payments are certainly a case of bad user interface on Valve's part. Valve can detect a delayed payment just fine. If a payment exceeds the nominal time window without them receiving back an explicit failure or success message, then it is considered delayed. Many payment providers even explicitly transmit back the "delayed" state and offer a merchant options to handle it. E.g. either letting it flow through in the hopes that it'll clean up, or cancelling it outright.

Valve can respond to that properly; not by shipping the user an email, but by actually notifying them of the issue within the payment flow and possibly by letting them decide what to do with it.

Of course, such a notification inspires low confidence in the purchaser and lowers the prospective of e.g. repeat-purchases, in particular high-value repeat-purchases, within the same session. Thus, from a commercial point of view they want to avoid it and instead choose to implement half-working "fail-safes" in the background with less overt messaging towards the shopper.

[ShelLuser]

Originally posted by tiglo:

I couldn't play the game and waited 3 hours, THEN I got a mail:

7/21/20, 8:00 PM

THEN I repurchased:

So now you suddenly repurchased the game and it's only about getting a refund?

Still no proof of any bug. What most likely happened was that the money from the initial refund didn't go back to your card but the Steam wallet. And those funds are automatically used up whenever you do a purchase on Steam.

Seems to me that you simply overlooked where your money went.

As for Steam denying the refund... that's a whole different subject which basically boils down to the fact that the refund option wasn't meant to demo games. So if you purchase a game again I can easily see why that gets rejected.

(edit)

Originally posted by RiO:

While it's not a bug, it's certainly a case of bad user interface on Valve's part in case of delayed payments. They can detect a delayed payment just fine: it exceeds the nominal time window without receiving an explicit failure or success message.

And they do... once you completed your payment there's a clear message telling you not to close the window until you get confirmation. If you don't and leave that open then it may take a long time, sure, but you'll definitely know for sure if the payment (and thus your purchase) got through or failed.

Considering that all browsers support tabs these days I kinda fail to see a problem with that. Sure it can be annoying if it takes a long time, but that's not because of Steam but the payment provider.

Also.... you don't even have to keep the window open, if you know what you're doing you simply close it and check up on any pending purchases.

[Radene]

Originally posted by ShelLuser:

Originally posted by tiglo:

I couldn't play the game and waited 3 hours, THEN I got a mail:

7/21/20, 8:00 PM

THEN I repurchased:

So now you suddenly repurchased the game and it's only about getting a refund?

Still no proof of any bug. What most likely happened was that the money from the initial refund didn't go back to your card but the Steam wallet. And those funds are automatically used up whenever you do a purchase on Steam.

Seems to me that you simply overlooked where your money went.

As for Steam denying the refund... that's a whole different subject which basically boils down to the fact that the refund option wasn't meant to demo games. So if you purchase a game again I can easily see why that gets rejected.

I think the OP tried to "refund" in order to get money back from the transaction that failed, not to "demo a game".

[tiglo]

Okay, the mail actually SAID I SHOULD RE-PURCHASE:

<quote>
There was an error with a recent Steam purchase.
We've saved your cart (including discounts) for 72 hours so you can attempt your purchase again.
</quote>

I did AS INSTRUCTED

and then I played the game.

I have NOT tried to get a refund because of the "demo" period. I tried to get a refund because THEY asked me to repurchase AND THEN they charged twice

[tiglo]

Originally posted by ShelLuser:

Originally posted by tiglo:

I
Still no proof of any bug. What most likely happened was that the money from the initial refund didn't go back to your card but the Steam wallet. And those funds are automatically used up whenever you do a purchase on Steam.

Seems to me that you simply overlooked where your money went.

NO

there is no money in balance
My bank statement shows two separate transactions

This IS a BUG

[ShelLuser]

Originally posted by tiglo:

I have NOT tried to get a refund because of the "demo" period. I tried to get a refund because THEY asked me to repurchase AND THEN they charged twice

Well, believe what you want. The others have already mentioned several steps which you can do to put in a request to ask support to fix this; I suggest you follow up on those steps and get this sorted out.

If this is really a bug I'm sure support will take note of it.

[tiglo]

Originally posted by RiO:

Originally posted by ShelLuser:

Valve can detect a delayed payment just fine. If a payment exceeds the nominal time window without them receiving back an explicit failure or success message, then it is considered delayed. Many payment providers even explicitly transmit back the "delayed" state and offer a merchant options to handle it. E.g. either letting it flow through in the hopes that it'll clean up, or cancelling it outright.

Valve can respond to that properly; not by shipping the user an email, but by actually notifying them of the issue within the payment flow and possibly by letting them decide what to do with it

So, I got the notification that the payment failed, but still they received the money which was taken out of my bank account, AND it now shows up as succeeded TWICE

How is this an error on my part?

In which universe is this not an error by steam? Why is everyone acting as if steam is faultless?

[tiglo]

Originally posted by ShelLuser:

Originally posted by tiglo:

I have NOT tried to get a refund because of the "demo" period. I tried to get a refund because THEY asked me to repurchase AND THEN they charged twice

Well, believe what you want. The others have already mentioned several steps which you can do to put in a request to ask support to fix this; I suggest you follow up on those steps and get this sorted out.

If this is really a bug I'm sure support will take note of it.

I have now filed 3 refund requests that have been flatly denied because ">2 Hrs". My impression is that they do not bother to read what I put in the notes, but simply automatically deny refunds

The first refund request was made before I ever played the game:
7/22/20, 10:41 AM

They took almost 2 days to reply:
Denied: 7/24/20, 8:05 PM

AFTER waiting a day I played the game for > 2 hours

How can I follow up on steps already taken? After a refund request is denied, the ticket is closed

Is there any other means to contact support? Do they respond to twitter/facebook?

https://twitter.com/fixsteam1

[tiglo]

Originally posted by Radene:

I think the OP tried to "refund" in order to get money back from the transaction that failed, not to "demo a game".

Not quite, the transaction went through AFTER steam notified me that it had failed and asked me to retry the purchase.

[tiglo]

THANKS all for all the well-intentioned replies

So, after all the obligatory "it is your own mistake"- replies and pointers to a DEFUNCT support system, the 100,000$ questions remains:


How do I get a refund?

Where do I report a BUG in steam?

(well actually, it is a 25 euro question)

anyone any pointers?

should I send a letter to PO BOX 1688 Bellevue, WA 98009?