MAC-Adress in Steam Hardware Survey

[Gebinsel]

When I recently started Steam, it asked me if I'd like to take part in a hardware survey. Scanning my system, do give details to game developers, so they can consider the average hardware of steam users. So far so good.

Positively I must remark, that you get shown the gathered hardware information, before it is sent so you can still decline. But somehow i feel fooled, when realizing, that the MAC-Adress of my system is therefor considered of any relevance and sent. Yes. It is still anonym like said, but somehow i don't see why this is of any relevance, while opening the possibility making you easy identifiable.

[Snapjak]

MAC addresses are not a unique identifier, just like an IP address. It can be changed manually in seconds by anyone with even the most basic understanding of clicking menus.

[Gebinsel]

Yes. You can use tools to change your MAC-Adress. But i guess the vast majority of steam users, that aren't working around mac based ban lists, or being very conscious about their anonymity, don't do that.

Also doesn't have mutch to do with my question..

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Originally posted by Gebinsel:

Yes. You can use tools to change your MAC-Adress. But i guess the vast majority of steam users, that aren't working around mac based ban lists, or being very conscious about their anonymity, don't do that.

Also doesn't have mutch to do with my question..

Most services don't ban by Mac address / hardware ID, they ban accounts. People having same IP or Mac address / hardware ID can be a real problem, which why it's not great idea to be banning that way, as don't want to ban the wrong person. This method works for Console, because they assigned the ID to the system, and only way of changing that is you needing to jail break your console to do so.

Now what is your question, I only see you stating things, not asking anything.
- Are you asking how not to share info? If so, just simply don't take part in the survey.
- Are you asking how to block sharing Mac address? Just edit it, or whatever as there should be software to easily do that job for you, or look up a guide as there's loads of them if you use google, or something.

[Gebinsel]

Originally posted by Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Now what is your question, I only see you stating things, not asking anything. .

To put it for you as a question: Why is the MAC-adress of any relevance to this survey, while pointing out that it is anonymous and opening the possibility making you easy identifiable due to that?

Originally posted by Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

- Are you asking how not to share info? If so, just simply don't take part in the survey.

No & Yes. i didn't take part. Just wanted to give some constructive feedback of what's bothering me about it, i why i didn't participated. But so far im out of this discussion..this is pointless.

And also someone more reasonable, somewhere else suggested, it may be related to avoiding multiple data collection of single computers.

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Trust system uses that as 1 of many data points.

[Jessie]

MAC address can be used to identify the manufacturer (through OUI).
Your MAC address is sometimes used to get an ipv6 address (EUI64) and can be reverse processed to reveal the original MAC address (not all ipv6 addresses - just those using eui64 method).

[Kargor]

Originally posted by Gebinsel:

To put it for you as a question: Why is the MAC-adress of any relevance to this survey, while pointing out that it is anonymous and opening the possibility making you easy identifiable due to that?

For one thing, MAC addresses do not identify you. Here are some of mine: 00:e0:4c:68:00:80 (that's actually the WAN interface on the router) or 34-97-F6-25-B2-5C (on the machine that I use for games or to make this posting).

There are three possible reasons that I can think of:

a) "because it's there", and nobody ever actually thought about it

b) because while you can change the address, people usually don't, giving a valid hardware manufacturer for the network device (technically speaking, they only need half the address for that).

c) because while you can change the address, people usually don't, giving a reasonably safe way to determine whether the set of data should be ADDED to the pool, or REPLACE an existing data set, depending on whether the MAC address was seen before or not. Remember we're doing statistics here, so a couple of wrong hits don't matter.

[RiO]

Originally posted by Kargor:

There are three possible reasons that I can think of:

a) "because it's there", and nobody ever actually thought about it

b) because while you can change the address, people usually don't, giving a valid hardware manufacturer for the network device (technically speaking, they only need half the address for that).

c) because while you can change the address, people usually don't, giving a reasonably safe way to determine whether the set of data should be ADDED to the pool, or REPLACE an existing data set, depending on whether the MAC address was seen before or not. Remember we're doing statistics here, so a couple of wrong hits don't matter.

For b) the hardware survey can actually just use the relevant OS APIs and grab the device manufacturer with 100% certainty as all hardware surfaces a device ID and manufacturer ID. And for c) there's the Steam account ID.

So I'm inclined the real reason is probably a)

[Gebinsel]

Originally posted by Kargor:

For one thing, MAC addresses do not identify you. Here are some of mine: 00:e0:4c:68:00:80 (that's actually the WAN interface on the router)

i am just claping hands David FXXXXXXXz. i'm just claping hands.

http://e2e.ti.com/support/wireless-connectivity/wifi/f/968/t/733115?Linux-CC3220SF-LAUNCHXL-Uniflash-usage-

And yes. Your MAC doesn't give your identity away. Unthoughtfulness does and the tracks you leave.

Originally posted by RiO:

So I'm inclined the real reason is probably a)

nice to see someone got the point. thx man

(Edit: @Kargor X-ed out you're probably last name, because I don't want to doxx you. Just wanted to underline the point, that it is could be problematic to carelessly give away ones mac address {and for the lulz })

[ShelLuser]

Originally posted by Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Most services don't ban by Mac address / hardware ID, they ban accounts.

Correction: no service uses MAC addresses for banning because that is plain out impossible.

A MAC address is simply a local hardware identifier mainly used for local network communications. Keyword being local. For example... in many cases a computer will automatically get an IP address assigned to it. So... how is the server going to communicate with that specific computer if it doesn't have an IP address yet? That's where a MAC address comes in.

However, a MAC address can only be used in a local network segment, but not beyond that. For example... your Internet router has its own MAC address which is used to directly communicate with other hardware. So... there is no way for any of those connected devices to gain hold of the MAC address of your PC, simply because your Internet router won't provide that kind of information.

It's simply the way things work.

As for the survey... In theory a MAC address is a unique identifier and every address should be unique. That's the theory of course, in reality it only needs to be unique within the same network segment. So I could well imagine that the only reason it was included was to serve as some kind of easy identifier.

But there's nothing to be worried about, this is not even close to any privacy breach.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Originally posted by ShelLuser:

Originally posted by Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Most services don't ban by Mac address / hardware ID, they ban accounts.

Correction: no service uses MAC addresses for banning because that is plain out impossible.

A MAC address is simply a local hardware identifier mainly used for local network communications. Keyword being local. For example... in many cases a computer will automatically get an IP address assigned to it. So... how is the server going to communicate with that specific computer if it doesn't have an IP address yet? That's where a MAC address comes in.

However, a MAC address can only be used in a local network segment, but not beyond that. For example... your Internet router has its own MAC address which is used to directly communicate with other hardware. So... there is no way for any of those connected devices to gain hold of the MAC address of your PC, simply because your Internet router won't provide that kind of information.

It's simply the way things work.

As for the survey... In theory a MAC address is a unique identifier and every address should be unique. That's the theory of course, in reality it only needs to be unique within the same network segment. So I could well imagine that the only reason it was included was to serve as some kind of easy identifier.

But there's nothing to be worried about, this is not even close to any privacy breach.

You're about right, Mac addess not same as Hardware ID, but both still display some kind of information.

Sony, and etc does do hardware ban, there also BattleEye which is an anti cheat on PC, which not sure if they're still doing it, but I remember them doing it for Arma 2, and such. There is the recent Valorant Anti-Cheat which also were doing the hardware ban.

That why I pointed it can be a real problem, because banning by HWID is not the best, and that most services do not do it, as it can be spoof, and if using someone else HWID at the time getting ban, chances someone using same HWID may get ban as well, let say public school library wifi, or etc... You get the picture. IP is WAY worse than HWID ban, due to the fact how easily can be changed, and how easily someone else can get that IP assigned to them, best worse case is being at a school where everyone enjoying the game on the school wifi, someone get ban, everyone get hit that on it, worse way to handle it.

Idea to handing this is by IP + HWID, the only true most effective way is account banning, instead of IP + HWID.

[[N]ebsun]

is MAC part of the HWID though ? I thought HWID is the serial number of various components.. MAC is the physical address of a nic

[ShelLuser]

Originally posted by Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Correction: to your Correction...
Sony, and etc does do hardware ban, there also BattleEye which is an anti cheat on PC, which not sure if they're still doing it, but I remember them doing it for Arma 2, and such. There is the recent Valorant Anti-Cheat which also were doing the hardware ban.

A hardware ban won't be solely based on a MAC address because... well, you can change a MAC address in no time.

Also also (no typo).... with stuff like BattleEye the MAC itself isn't used in the same way as an IP address (which was the main point of my post). It's the process which runs on your PC that is making a hardware footprint of your computer which it then uses to identify and deny you. The MAC can be part of that, sure, but that's all it will be.

And that's also the problem with your theory.... a modern gaming PC will have plenty of MAC addresses. You'll have your physical network card, the virtual WIFI connector, bluetooth, etc. How would a protection process know which MAC address to use? ;)

Sure, it could theoretically use all of them. Well, then you simply change all of them. Now even easier if you consider that most interfaces will be virtual so they only exist within the OS.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Originally posted by Nebsun:

is MAC part of the HWID though ? I thought HWID is the serial number of various components.. MAC is the physical address of a nic

Part of the Mac address can be used to identify the vendor, the rest unique as that normally how it is. Normally most systems that ban by HWID is normally the motherboard.

Normally when connected to service, or peer to peer, you would display IP to them, the anti cheat would send the HWID as well may even send Mac address, as something need to scan the system to send that information.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Originally posted by ShelLuser:

A hardware ban won't be solely based on a MAC address because... well, you can change a MAC address in no time.

Also also (no typo).... with stuff like BattleEye the MAC itself isn't used in the same way as an IP address (which was the main point of my post). It's the process which runs on your PC that is making a hardware footprint of your computer which it then uses to identify and deny you. The MAC can be part of that, sure, but that's all it will be.

And that's also the problem with your theory.... a modern gaming PC will have plenty of MAC addresses. You'll have your physical network card, the virtual WIFI connector, bluetooth, etc. How would a protection process know which MAC address to use? ;)

Sure, it could theoretically use all of them. Well, then you simply change all of them. Now even easier if you consider that most interfaces will be virtual so they only exist within the OS.

Check my edit above, that I have done before you posted, which too tired atm to think, but yes mac address isn't really used, but yes it's possible for them to be using more key factors to try and identify you using more infomation, but yes all of that can be spoof easily.