Why all the Steam hate?

[MaddSkillz]

So I get the angst of players that perhaps came recent to Steam (or have been here a bit) and now compare it to Epic, but frankly if not for Steam there would not be any online PC market places at all. Uplay, Origin, Battlenet, Epic - now maybe Verizon and Google - they are all riding off Steam.

Sure Steam could improve, it does all the time. But no way im going to run 6+ more? game platforms to run my games (165 on Steam alone). Simply having all my games in one location, that get updated all the time for various OS, driver or other content update, is a massive benefit. Beats the BS of having to search for updates once a upon a time.

Yes not perfect. But so much better than it used to be (piss off i know im likely older than most) but still has a lot of upside.

Peace

[Crazy Tiger]

Publicado originalmente por battlezoby:

Steams needs to leave ZERO processes running, but 5, 12, or often 30 background process it leaves running for who-the-f-knows why!

Steam doing 30 background processes? Show that please.

[Start_Running]

Publicado originalmente por battlezoby:

If someone wants to turn off Auto-Updates (updates other than ones that happen when the game is launched) and doesn't mind launching from the desktop rather than the big ugly launcher, and turns off the overlay,

And you still have the steam application.

Steams needs to leave ZERO processes running, but 5, 12, or often 30 background process it leaves running for who-the-f-knows why!

Zero processes would basically mean the application has been terminated and is not running. Onmce software is running it leaves a footprint.

I've personally never seen more than 7 steam related processes and even that was an extreme case. 12? 30? Yeah that sort of hyperbole is just gonna undermine your argument.

(The desktop icon could load the launcher, which could load the game, and then the launcher could and should quietly exit afterwards in that instance.)

Except that many games use steam related features, att the very least there's the playtime tracking. Then there's things like card drops, cloud saves, leaderboards, multiplayer, screenshots, matchmaking, anti-cheat, etc. There are games that yuse none of these things and you know what you don't need to launch steam to run them.

But klaunching steam on demand would actually be more problematic and resource intensive than letting it just lurk in memory. There's a rather long list of computational processes that go on everytime an application starts and closes. and since those are active processes they take a chuck out of acctive memory and cpu cycles, as opposed to you know, just reserving it and only using as needed.

Seriously if you can complain or even notice steam's overhead , something has gone very wrong with ye system

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Publicado originalmente por battlezoby:

Publicado originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

The speed of RAM is benefit to your CPU at least for Ryzen case, not your GPU.

Again these two RAM types are not the same, nor can be used in same matter without harming your performance because of the desigin of the two RAMs type. That great to gloat about motherboard supporting faster RAM but that still not going to work as you expect it to be, there's a large bandwidth gap.
https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3330-gt-1030-ddr4-vs-gt-1030-gddr5-benchmark-worst-graphics-card-2018

Stop and think if we don't take any performance hit using DDR in the GPU comparing to GDDR, then wouldn't be a reason for GDDR to exist, there a reason why GDDR is being used in GPU's and not DDR. The higher the DDR RAM frequency the higher the latency will go as well as that the trade off, again won't work, and that not all there other factors why there difference between DDR and GDDR.

Nvidia has game ready drivers is just their marketing saying game was optimize more for Nvidia GPUs.

I don't see how VR related but not an issue to using VR what you have.

And all of this back and forth and is a pointless off-topic subject, as the unneeded Steam overhead, no matter how trivial compared to some other issues, is still literally unneeded and reason to hate Steam. If nothing else, forcing all those extra processes on you makes it harder to know what would happen in their absense. Sure, there at least a good chance they're not the main, or possibly even a relavent factor here [or maybe they are], but they shouldn't be there to create the doubt in the first place.

If someone wants to turn off Auto-Updates (updates other than ones that happen when the game is launched) and doesn't mind launching from the desktop rather than the big ugly launcher, and turns off the overlay, Steams needs to leave ZERO processes running, but 5, 12, or often 30 background process it leaves running for who-the-f-knows why! (The desktop icon could load the launcher, which could load the game, and then the launcher could and should quietly exit afterwards in that instance.)

Yea it's off topic, but the way he was going on is really misinformation, and was off what he claiming for something as such.

Anyways yes would be great to have control over updates, but far as I see game devs rather push their updates than rather help someone using an outdated version of the game if they have problems at all from over the years I seen, but that something on it own as well for another subject. Also Steam can't leave zero processes, in fact no game client ever left zero processes when running them, or having them in background as it's impossible, that like trying to start your car to go on a drive, but you don't want your car engine running how does that even work??? that was a rhetorical question. So yes processes are going to be left running when you're going to have it running, or have it in the background. Steam doesn't even run when you shut it down, but Origin, idk why they always have that web helper process going, that makes no sense why they have that going despite the client never launch, or even after shutting it down as it shouldn't have any processing at all if never launch to begin with.
https://imgur.com/62xP9Ao

[Xaelath]

Publicado originalmente por Crazy Tiger:

Publicado originalmente por battlezoby:

Steams needs to leave ZERO processes running, but 5, 12, or often 30 background process it leaves running for who-the-f-knows why!

Steam doing 30 background processes? Show that please.

Probably exaggeration, Only have like 9 in total of 300k-500k ram depends on the usage so far.

[battlezoby]

Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

Publicado originalmente por battlezoby:

If someone wants to turn off Auto-Updates (updates other than ones that happen when the game is launched) and doesn't mind launching from the desktop rather than the big ugly launcher, and turns off the overlay,

And you still have the steam application.

Steams needs to leave ZERO processes running, but 5, 12, or often 30 background process it leaves running for who-the-f-knows why!

Zero processes would basically mean the application has been terminated and is not running. Onmce software is running it leaves a footprint.

What exactly do you mean by "you still have THE STEAM APPLICATION"?

What is "The Steam Application"? Seriously, to the best of my knowledge it's a launcher, an updater, and an overlay when you're not using the ugly launcher-interface or the store as a stand-alone app rather than a web-browser.

Maybe you have some real point regarding some "Steam Application" beyond that which I'm overlooking, but if you there is, I can't think of it, so seriously, what exactly are you refering to?

I've personally never seen more than 7 steam related processes and even that was an extreme case. 12? 30? Yeah that sort of hyperbole is just gonna undermine your argument.

It wasn't hyperbole, its was an estimate. Seriously, even 7 is stupid pointless and annoying enough that I'm not sure why anyone would bother keeping track of a careful tally beyond that. That said, I think I've seen around 12 or more, but I don't really care. Of course, as far as "hurting [ones] arguement" you omitting "5" as one possibility in my example doesn't help yours.

[crunchyfrog]

Publicado originalmente por battlezoby:

Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

And you still have the steam application.


Zero processes would basically mean the application has been terminated and is not running. Onmce software is running it leaves a footprint.

What exactly do you mean by "you still have THE STEAM APPLICATION"?

What is "The Steam Application"? Seriously, to the best of my knowledge it's a launcher, an updater, and an overlay when you're not using the ugly launcher-interface or the store as a stand-alone app rather than a web-browser.

Maybe you have some real point regarding some "Steam Application" beyond that which I'm overlooking, but if you there is, I can't think of it, so seriously, what exactly are you refering to?

I've personally never seen more than 7 steam related processes and even that was an extreme case. 12? 30? Yeah that sort of hyperbole is just gonna undermine your argument.

It wasn't hyperbole, its was an estimate. Seriously, even 7 is stupid pointless and annoying enough that I'm not sure why anyone would bother keeping track of a careful tally beyond that. That said, I think I've seen around 12 or more, but I don't really care. Of course, as far as "hurting [ones] arguement" you omitting "5" as one possibility in my example doesn't help yours.

Well, whether an estimate or hyperbole or not, it still is extreme enough an example that you need to fulfil your burden of proof, because 30 or even 12 is a number that isn't warranted at all.

[battlezoby]

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Publicado originalmente por battlezoby:

What exactly do you mean by "you still have THE STEAM APPLICATION"?

What is "The Steam Application"? Seriously, to the best of my knowledge it's a launcher, an updater, and an overlay when you're not using the ugly launcher-interface or the store as a stand-alone app rather than a web-browser.

Maybe you have some real point regarding some "Steam Application" beyond that which I'm overlooking, but if you there is, I can't think of it, so seriously, what exactly are you refering to?

It wasn't hyperbole, its was an estimate. Seriously, even 7 is stupid pointless and annoying enough that I'm not sure why anyone would bother keeping track of a careful tally beyond that. That said, I think I've seen around 12 or more, but I don't really care. Of course, as far as "hurting [ones] arguement" you omitting "5" as one possibility in my example doesn't help yours.

Well, whether an estimate or hyperbole or not, it still is extreme enough an example that you need to fulfil your burden of proof, because 30 or even 12 is a number that isn't warranted at all.

This is stupid B.S. because I said:

Steams needs to leave ZERO processes running, but 5, 12, or often 30 background process it leaves running for who-the-f-knows why!

and it's already been admitted that Steam leaves 5, and certainly more than ZERO process running. Your obsession with the numbers "12" and "30" is mostly irrelavent and clearly inappropriate since it "5, 12, OR often 30", you and/or anyone else can dismiss the "12 or 30 often 30" part because the "5" part still applies.

RE: "Burden of Proof" - This seems to be big thing in discussions, but why do people so often imply that a "Burden of Proof" is needed when critisizing something - I mean, you quoted section is, unto itself, a question to directed a CrunchyFrog. It seems like people demand "Burden of Proof" because[/u\i][/b] someone or something is critisized, and it seems like this is some type of assumption these days. This is a discussion group, not a court of law or even a lobbying effort...

Also, and PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANTLY HERE, the topic if "Why at the Steam HATE". "HATE" is purely objective and may not even have a valid foundation for it's existence. An very applicable example here is that Steam has, at least on occasion, produced more seemingly extranious processes than I can keep track of, and that unto itself (regardless of how many there are, or even, in theory, regardless of whether there's a valid reason for them to exist) does not negate that one of many reasons for "Why all the Steam Hate."

[battlezoby]

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Well, whether an estimate or hyperbole or not, it still is extreme enough an example that you need to fulfil your burden of proof, because 30 or even 12 is a number that isn't warranted at all.

This is stupid B.S. because I said:

Steams needs to leave ZERO processes running, [rather than the] 5, 12, or often 30 background process it leaves running for who-the-f-knows why!

and it's already been admitted that Steam leaves 5, and certainly more than ZERO process running. Your obsession with the numbers "12" and "30" is mostly irrelavent and clearly inappropriate since it "5, 12, OR often 30", you and/or anyone else can dismiss the "12 or 30 often 30" part because the "5" part still applies.

RE: "Burden of Proof" - This seems to be big thing in discussions, but why do people so often imply that a "Burden of Proof" is needed when critisizing something - I mean, you quoted section is, unto itself, a question to directed a CrunchyFrog. It seems like people demand "Burden of Proof" because[/u\i][/b] someone or something is critisized, and it seems like this is some type of assumption these days. This is a discussion group, not a court of law or even a lobbying effort...

Also, and PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANTLY HERE, the topic if "Why at the Steam HATE". "HATE" is purely objective and may not even have a valid foundation for it's existence. An very applicable example here is that Steam has, at least on occasion, produced more seemingly extranious processes than I can keep track of, and that unto itself (regardless of how many there are, or even, in theory, regardless of whether there's a valid reason for them to exist) does not negate that one of many reasons for "Why all the Steam Hate."

[DADDY TOMI]

Publicado originalmente por MaddSkillz:

So I get the angst of players that perhaps came recent to Steam (or have been here a bit) and now compare it to Epic, but frankly if not for Steam there would not be any online PC market places at all. Uplay, Origin, Battlenet, Epic - now maybe Verizon and Google - they are all riding off Steam.

Sure Steam could improve, it does all the time. But no way im going to run 6+ more? game platforms to run my games (165 on Steam alone). Simply having all my games in one location, that get updated all the time for various OS, driver or other content update, is a massive benefit. Beats the BS of having to search for updates once a upon a time.

Yes not perfect. But so much better than it used to be (piss off i know im likely older than most) but still has a lot of upside.

Peace

agree

[crunchyfrog]

Publicado originalmente por battlezoby:

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Well, whether an estimate or hyperbole or not, it still is extreme enough an example that you need to fulfil your burden of proof, because 30 or even 12 is a number that isn't warranted at all.

This is stupid B.S. because I said:

Steams needs to leave ZERO processes running, but 5, 12, or often 30 background process it leaves running for who-the-f-knows why!

and it's already been admitted that Steam leaves 5, and certainly more than ZERO process running. Your obsession with the numbers "12" and "30" is mostly irrelavent and clearly inappropriate since it "5, 12, OR often 30", you and/or anyone else can dismiss the "12 or 30 often 30" part because the "5" part still applies.

RE: "Burden of Proof" - This seems to be big thing in discussions, but why do people so often imply that a "Burden of Proof" is needed when critisizing something - I mean, you quoted section is, unto itself, a question to directed a CrunchyFrog. It seems like people demand "Burden of Proof" because[/u\i][/b] someone or something is critisized, and it seems like this is some type of assumption these days. This is a discussion group, not a court of law or even a lobbying effort...

Also, and PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANTLY HERE, the topic if "Why at the Steam HATE". "HATE" is purely objective and may not even have a valid foundation for it's existence. An very applicable example here is that Steam has, at least on occasion, produced more seemingly extranious processes than I can keep track of, and that unto itself (regardless of how many there are, or even, in theory, regardless of whether there's a valid reason for them to exist) does not negate that one of many reasons for "Why all the Steam Hate." [/quote]

Yes you ASSERTED that it needs no processes running. Demonstrate empiraclly how you know that to be so.

That's not how logic works, I'm afraid. So my point stands.

Assertions are not evidence, no matter how many times you say them.

[Start_Running]

Publicado originalmente por battlezoby:

Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

And you still have the steam application.


Zero processes would basically mean the application has been terminated and is not running. Onmce software is running it leaves a footprint.

What exactly do you mean by "you still have THE STEAM APPLICATION"?

What is "The Steam Application"? Seriously, to the best of my knowledge it's a launcher, an updater, and an overlay when you're not using the ugly launcher-interface or the store as a stand-alone app rather than a web-browser.

Yes and those processes you see, and are apparently complaining about, are the steam application (as you have described it).

I've personally never seen more than 7 steam related processes and even that was an extreme case. 12? 30? Yeah that sort of hyperbole is just gonna undermine your argument.

It wasn't hyperbole, its was an estimate.

And that estimate was based on what? Clearly not observation.

Seriously, even 7 is stupid pointless and annoying enough that I'm not sure why anyone would bother keeping track of a careful tally beyond that.

EVen 7 is klot and keeping a tally is something you do when you notice odd things.

That said, I think I've seen around 12 or more, but I don't really care.

12 woukld be in the realm of 'WTF did you do to get that that' territory.

Of course, as far as "hurting [ones] arguement" you omitting "5" as one possibility in my example doesn't help yours.

One does not point out the parts that correspond to norms. Just that which is abnormal.

[crunchyfrog]

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Publicado originalmente por battlezoby:

This is stupid B.S. because I said:

and it's already been admitted that Steam leaves 5, and certainly more than ZERO process running. Your obsession with the numbers "12" and "30" is mostly irrelavent and clearly inappropriate since it "5, 12, OR often 30", you and/or anyone else can dismiss the "12 or 30 often 30" part because the "5" part still applies.

RE: "Burden of Proof" - This seems to be big thing in discussions, but why do people so often imply that a "Burden of Proof" is needed when critisizing something - I mean, you quoted section is, unto itself, a question to directed a CrunchyFrog. It seems like people demand "Burden of Proof" because[/u\i][/b] someone or something is critisized, and it seems like this is some type of assumption these days. This is a discussion group, not a court of law or even a lobbying effort...

Also, and PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANTLY HERE, the topic if "Why at the Steam HATE". "HATE" is purely objective and may not even have a valid foundation for it's existence. An very applicable example here is that Steam has, at least on occasion, produced more seemingly extranious processes than I can keep track of, and that unto itself (regardless of how many there are, or even, in theory, regardless of whether there's a valid reason for them to exist) does not negate that one of many reasons for "Why all the Steam Hate." [/quote]

Yes you ASSERTED that it needs no processes running. Demonstrate empiraclly how you know that to be so.

That's not how logic works, I'm afraid. So my point stands.

Assertions are not evidence, no matter how many times you say them. [/quote]


Now you're strawmanning me. I had made NO claim about what processes should be running. I merely took the DEFAULT position of not believing your claim that there were5, or 12 or whatever. You also claimed that there should be ZERO processes running, which not only is impossible on Windows, but it's still YOUR burden of proof. You clearly don't understand it, so perhaps you should look it up.

Burden of proof is like this - anyone who asserts something has the burden of proof. And the quality of that proof is determined by the nature of said claim.

For example, if I say "hey, I've got a new pet in my kitchen" most people would simply take that on face value as it's far from uncommon. However, if I then pointed out that the pet was a dragon, then my burden of proof now needs to be FAR better.

You also don't seem to understand what the default position is. Me disputing YOUR claim and not believing says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about my stance.

For example, the gumball analogy (look it up on Youtube from Matt Dillahunty - he's done a good video on it). If I have a big jar of gumballs - you know the kind, found in sweetshops, big glass thing, contains loads of them. If it's unopened and I asserted there must be an even number in there, you would likely retort
"I don't believe you" because that would be quite unusual and it requires a burden of proof on my part. We could of course, open the jar and count them, or whatever is needed.

But here's the key point - YOU saying you don't blieve me DOES NOT IN ANY WAY Mean that you believe there are an odd number. It says NOTHING about any stance you've made.

So, apply that to your assertion about me making claims about how many processes there are because I have not.


It still remains that as I said earlier, this is not how it works and that's that.

[battlezoby]

FYI, because there have been some discussion of not allowing dev's to offer lower prices on other platformsNon-Steam sales outlets, I thought I'd mention that I just saw Earth 2160 on sale at Gog.com for $1.79 while it's still $4.99. I'm guessing this is an exception regarding "sale prices" and it'll be interesting to see if Earth 2160 is priced at the same $1.79 when the next Steam sale (probably the summer sale) occurs.
https://www.gog.com/game/earth_2160
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1900/Earth_2160
Update: Thinking back, the price fixing might only apply to Steam keys, whereas Gog.com might have had the right to the stand-alone executable to Earth-2160 even before Steam got them, and regardless, they're selling the DRM-free version and not Steam keys.

[Mythical Ostrich]

Publicado originalmente por battlezoby:

FYI, because there have been some discussion of not allowing dev's to offer lower prices on other platforms,

That's perfectly fine and good for us as consumers

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Publicado originalmente por battlezoby:

FYI, because there have been some discussion of not allowing dev's to offer lower prices on other platforms...

Which posts?

The rules about "Crowdfunding" "keys" for betas and Early Acces games are like that.

... ...For ongoing crowdfunding that does not have a set end date, it is only OK to sell Steam keys if the product is also available for purchase via Steam at no higher than it is offered via your crowdfunding campaign. If you are selling Steam keys for a beta or early access version of your product, you must follow the early access requirements listed below.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys#3

But for fully released games (1.0 or better) on Steam, there are no rules about competitive pricing between Steam and the other services or platforms. They can set the prices to what they wish to.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/pricing