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Madara 2019 年 10 月 19 日 上午 10:48
Am I The Only That Think 2 Hour Playtime For Refund Is Dumb?
Steam is basically saying "dont give the game a chance, dont play it for more than 2 hours, refund right now!", it takes more than 2 hours to tell if you like the game or not.
引用自 Crazy H:
The company that made the game decided to release and sell it for use on the PC platform. They have said "If you give us 'x' amount of money we'll give you this game to play on your PC and it will function as advertised." Steam also decided to say this when they put it up for sale on their store.

That was my main point. PCs are widely known by everyone to have mixed and matched components. There is a near infinite variety of possible configurations for a PC. This allows great potential for a game to work fine on one system and have problems on another. Knowing this, the company who made the game and Steam have still agreed to sell this game and tell us that it will run correctly on the PC platform. It doesn't matter that it works for others, if it is not working then you are entitled to your money back. If there is a time limit, it should definitely be more than 2 hours because it might take you that long to progress to the broken point in a game. I'm obviously not talking about needing more than 2 hours to know if a game sucks or not.
Ideally there should not be a time limit. If a product is defective, it's defective. It doesn't matter how long it took you to reach the broken part of the content. We're not talking about something like a bicycle. If you buy a bicycle you will know something is wrong with it pretty quickly if there is. These are games that often have hundreds of hours of content. The vast majority of games being sold on Steam would take way more than 2 hours to experience all of the content in them. When you are being sold a game, you are being sold all of it's content and you are being assured that it will work properly. These companies took the risk upon themselves knowing that even though there may be nothing wrong with someone's rig and they have all drivers up to date, the game still may not work properly. If it doesn't, it's on them to provide a refund because their product isn't doing what it promised to do. I do understand that there are people out there who would scam the system if there was no time limit at all though, so I can understand having one. I just think it should be more than 2 hours. Steam obviously has the capability to look at someone's record and see how many hours they put into a game (or at least how long they have had the game running) and they can see how many times someone requests refunds. They can easily tell who is abusing the system and who is not. Sure, someone might get away with a couple of bogus refunds before they are recognized as scammers. The revenue lost from that would be a drop in the bucket compared to what Steam is raking in. Anyone who says otherwise is spouting nonsense. That's the risk Steam takes when they decide to have an online storefront. That's a cost of doing business the way they've chosen to do it. Someone who, for example, has over 150 games on their account and has only made 2 refund requests over the course of 9 years is probably not abusing the system and does not deserve to suffer because Steam is worried about losing a tiny fraction of their income to a scammer.
It's really very concerning when people defend anti-consumer practices like this. Keep it up guys, pretty soon we'll have no consumer rights.

And yea, I should have had the foresight to only play games that I just bought when my relative is asleep? That's laughable. Not to mention them being asleep is no guarantee that they won't wake up and require assistance. I shouldn't have to adjust my behavior because something that I paid money for might not function the way it was promised to function when I bought it.

Anyway, I'm not going to waste any more of my time responding to arguments on this matter. At least half of the people who responded to my post either didn't even read it in it's entirety or simply chose to completely disregard certain points I made. If we can't agree on the basic points I'm making, then I don't think there is anything that can be done to convince you.
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目前顯示第 16-30 則留言,共 91
MyProfile 2019 年 10 月 19 日 下午 3:58 
I think refunds period are dumb in this day and age. Refunds drive up the cost of games and have made Steam sales crap. I won't argue the point. It is what it is.
Crazy H 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 2:41 
It's definitely not enough time. For instance in my case I was told that I couldn't be refunded because my "play time" was over 2 hours. I live with and take care of a family member with special needs and frequently have to pause games to assist them. This occurred while the game was running and added a great deal to my so-called "play time." This particular game (Hitman 2) also recommends that you complete the tutorial missions before moving on to the story missions so that is what I did. The game did not crash during the tutorial missions and appeared to be fine. During the tutorial is also when I had to pause the game and assist my relative. It wasn't until the first story mission that the game began crashing constantly to the point that it was unplayable. I would estimate that my actual play time in this game is easily within one hour. There is absolutely no way that I have truly played this game for longer than 2 hours. I also purchased the Hitman GOTY Legacy Pack DLC which was an additional $20. So I have spent $80 on a defective product that I can't play or get a refund on because the total time it took me to assist my relative and then return to my game and progress to the first mission where it crashes constantly took over 2 hours.
The really insane thing to me is that they'll give someone a refund if they just say "I didn't like the game" and their play time is under 2 hours. There are plenty of Youtube video reviews that can be watched for free that show gameplay and everything in great detail. There are plenty of resources one can use to research whether a game is for them or not.
However, when it comes to a game functioning properly on your machine, there is really no way to know for sure that it will. Any given game could function perfectly for 99% of the people who bought it, yet for some reason it just doesn't happen to agree with one particular aspect of your rig. There are tons of reasons why this could be the case. Whatever the reason may be, the fact remains that it does not work for you. For you this is a defective product and you should be entitled to a refund. The company that made the game decided to release and sell it for use on the PC platform. They have said "If you give us 'x' amount of money we'll give you this game to play on your PC and it will function as advertised." What if it took you longer than 2 hours to progress to the point in the game that it doesn't function as advertised? Certainly a game flat-out not working is a more justifiable reason for a refund than "I didn't like it."
Anyway, their 2 hour stipulation is ridiculous and very anti-consumer.
Fear dot Com 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 2:47 
No, 2 hours is fine. No matter what game you play, it doesn't take more than 2 hours to find out if it sucks. I know a lot of people claim to spend time tinkering with a game that doesn't work on why they have like 4 hours clocked in, and...that's kind of the point of refunds. If it doesn't work, get rid of it.
Kargor 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 2:53 
引用自 Chompman
引用自 Rocket
They're losing a lot of money having a refund policy at all. There's hundreds of games that don't have proper DRM. People often just buy, install, refund and keep playing with the installed files.
It's a legal issue that they had to add refunds that was outside of their control.

That's a regional thing, though. They support region-baed censorship, regional pricing, regional taxes, regional this and regional that, so why not support regional refunds?

For example, in Germany, there are certain requirements for "mail order" and refunds, but certain things, including stuff like Steam, are exempted from having to offer these refunds.
In fact, from a legal perspective, they DO use the exemption rule so they can implement their own policy instead of the legal one.
Nope less than 2 hours is more than enough time, it's to make sure the game works and if it doesn't give you some time to troubleshot the game (if you can't within an hour in a half then refund). It's not to demo a game, I suggest you look up information on a game or youtube videos and make sure it's something you want to buy/play.
ReBoot 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 3:40 
2 hours are more than enough time. It's not enough if you're using the refunds as means to demo a game, but that's not what refunds are for.
SpunkyJones 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 3:46 
2 hours is fine, plenty of time to verify it works.
AmsterdamHeavy 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 3:48 
I dont need 2 hours to know if a game sucks, or that I dont like it.
Start_Running 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 4:44 
引用自 Fear dot Com
No, 2 hours is fine. No matter what game you play, it doesn't take more than 2 hours to find out if it sucks. I know a lot of people claim to spend time tinkering with a game that doesn't work on why they have like 4 hours clocked in, and...that's kind of the point of refunds. If it doesn't work, get rid of it.
I have honestly never understood that mentality.
Why would you spend an hour tinkering?
If the game takes more than 30 mins to get running that game's getting refunded. yNo regrets. EIther my system can't handle it or the game is ♥♥♥♥♥.


引用自 Dys0rdeR
It's definitely not enough time. For instance in my case I was told that I couldn't be refunded because my "play time" was over 2 hours. I live with and take care of a family member with special needs and frequently have to pause games to assist them. This occurred while the game was running and added a great deal to my so-called "play time."

Maybe schedule you're play-time for when the other is asleep? Secondly. Them giving you more time wouldn't alleviate this problem. You'd just come back complaining that 4 hours is not enough for the exact same reasons.

This particular game (Hitman 2) also recommends that you complete the tutorial missions before moving on to the story missions so that is what I did. The game did not crash during the tutorial missions and appeared to be fine. During the tutorial is also when I had to pause the game and assist my relative. It wasn't until the first story mission that the game began crashing constantly to the point that it was unplayable. I would estimate that my actual play time in this game is easily within one hour.

Cool story bro.
Not being flippant there. because guess what. As far as anyone can objectively verify is the hours logged. EVerything else you have said is unverifiable, unfalsifiable, and must be taken on your word. Making it basically as good as a fisherman's story about the fish that got away.

You played through the tutorial. News flash the tutorial is part of the game. It counts as playing the game.

Now rthat said. The game, suddenly crashing like crazy in the first story mission is sad, and might be due to your pc being on the low end of the system range perhaps. It seems to be an issue that a few others have mentioned. My suggestion would be to get comfortable and ask around the forums (politely) for how tyo tweak your system.

The really insane thing to me is that they'll give someone a refund if they just say "I didn't like the game" and their play time is under 2 hours.
Because they act within the 'no questions asked' window. You are uin the 'QUestions asked window' and those questions are not very forgiving You can try phrasing your support query as 'I have qquestions about this purchase' when you make a ticket but i wouldn't hold my breath.

However, when it comes to a game functioning properly on your machine, there is really no way to know for sure that it will. Any given game could function perfectly for 99% of the people who bought it, yet for some reason it just doesn't happen to agree with one particular aspect of your rig.
Then thats on your rig.

There are tons of reasons why this could be the case. Whatever the reason may be, the fact remains that it does not work for you. For you this is a defective product and you should be entitled to a refund.
No what's defective, by any objective metric is your rig. If it works for 90% and not you then the abnormality is in your system not the software. A defective product is one wherein 20-40% have the same issue.

The company that made the game decided to release and sell it for use on the PC platform. They have said "If you give us 'x' amount of money we'll give you this game to play on your PC and it will function as advertised." What if it took you longer than 2 hours to progress to the point in the game that it doesn't function as advertised? Certainly a game flat-out not working is a more justifiable reason for a refund than "I didn't like it."
Anyway, their 2 hour stipulation is ridiculous and very anti-consumer.

'Not getting what you want' is not 'anti-consumer'.
Here's my advice. Try going through support again. Leave out all the 'horse dead and cow fat' about your relative and stick to information that can actually be objectively observed and verified.

- Game ran fine during the tutorial missions.
- The game however started to crash frequently on the campaign missions, to the point of being unplayable. SOmething that has been mentioned by other reviewers. This is also not an uncommon scenario suince tutorials generally load smaller maps, and have fewer actors on that map.

Make sure your system is actually within the game's requirement specs. and then hope for the best.
最後修改者:Start_Running; 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 4:45
ShelLuser 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 5:33 
引用自 Dys0rdeR
It's definitely not enough time. For instance in my case I was told that I couldn't be refunded because my "play time" was over 2 hours. I live with and take care of a family member with special needs and frequently have to pause games to assist them.
24hours a day? Nonsense.

You're now blaming the system while you failed to properly prepare yourself to evaluate a game. If you know there's a chance you can be called away.. well... maybe pick a better time for all this? For example when your family member is asleep, that's what I always do / did.

Or find other ways to investigate prior to playing. In the end this feat was never meant to be a demo option to begin with, which I suspect you were using it for. Better be careful there because if you refund too frequently you can run into trouble.
shiel 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 5:43 
引用自 Dys0rdeR
It's definitely not enough time. For instance in my case I was told that I couldn't be refunded because my "play time" was over 2 hours. I live with and take care of a family member with special needs and frequently have to pause games to assist them. This occurred while the game was running and added a great deal to my so-called "play time." This particular game (Hitman 2) also recommends that you complete the tutorial missions before moving on to the story missions so that is what I did. The game did not crash during the tutorial missions and appeared to be fine. During the tutorial is also when I had to pause the game and assist my relative. It wasn't until the first story mission that the game began crashing constantly to the point that it was unplayable. I would estimate that my actual play time in this game is easily within one hour. There is absolutely no way that I have truly played this game for longer than 2 hours. I also purchased the Hitman GOTY Legacy Pack DLC which was an additional $20. So I have spent $80 on a defective product that I can't play or get a refund on because the total time it took me to assist my relative and then return to my game and progress to the first mission where it crashes constantly took over 2 hours.
The really insane thing to me is that they'll give someone a refund if they just say "I didn't like the game" and their play time is under 2 hours. There are plenty of Youtube video reviews that can be watched for free that show gameplay and everything in great detail. There are plenty of resources one can use to research whether a game is for them or not.
However, when it comes to a game functioning properly on your machine, there is really no way to know for sure that it will. Any given game could function perfectly for 99% of the people who bought it, yet for some reason it just doesn't happen to agree with one particular aspect of your rig. There are tons of reasons why this could be the case. Whatever the reason may be, the fact remains that it does not work for you. For you this is a defective product and you should be entitled to a refund. The company that made the game decided to release and sell it for use on the PC platform. They have said "If you give us 'x' amount of money we'll give you this game to play on your PC and it will function as advertised." What if it took you longer than 2 hours to progress to the point in the game that it doesn't function as advertised? Certainly a game flat-out not working is a more justifiable reason for a refund than "I didn't like it."
Anyway, their 2 hour stipulation is ridiculous and very anti-consumer.
You could try fixing the crashing issues? Plenty of people(myself included) can play Hitman 2 with no issues. It's hardly a defective product.
Tito Shivan 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 5:49 
引用自 Dys0rdeR
It's definitely not enough time.
It's never going to be 'enough time' for some people. That's why refund requests are reviewed even when over the playtime limit.

The actual timer is a compromise between letting people enough time to check a game and limiting the ability of abusing the system by finishing games within the refund limit playtime. The longer the playtime the more people can abuse it to play games for free.
Crazy Tiger 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 6:41 
引用自 Dys0rdeR
It's definitely not enough time. For instance in my case I was told that I couldn't be refunded because my "play time" was over 2 hours.
Playtime is merely the time the program was open.

Everybody has a sob story why their case is special. No matter what Valve does, there will always be people claiming they're case is special when it simply isn't. The policy is known, it's up to you to do your things within that.

You can always try a manual ticket, so it gets reviewed outside the refund window. Steam Support does look at that and they do grant exceptions, it has been posted often enough.

If the game has issues way outside the refund period, you take it up with the developer/publisher.
D3AD 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 8:13 
引用自 Theblaze
引用自 Ultra_Instinct_Goku
i need alteast 5-9hrs to install a 30gb game so 2hour purchase is not fair!

The timer starts when the game (or third-party launcher) is running in the background not while downloading and installing the game.
somes games dont start their actual download till you launch their launcher. which is considered the api launch of the game which triggers the timer. ( gtaV, elder scrolls online. and most games today.. that have standalone laucchers that dont fully dwnload games on steam. and can install a 80 Gig patch after a steam download
最後修改者:D3AD; 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 8:15
cSg|mc-Hotsauce 2019 年 12 月 13 日 上午 8:14 
引用自 D3AD
引用自 Theblaze

The timer starts when the game (or third-party launcher) is running in the background not while downloading and installing the game.
somes games dont start their actual download till you launch their launcher. which is considered the api launch of the game which triggers the timer.

And you can make a manual refund ticket, explain the issue and most likely get your refund. Support knows about that as well.

:qr:
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張貼日期: 2019 年 10 月 19 日 上午 10:48
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