I found Spyro 2 worse than Spyro 1

[ni0g0s]

Just finished the second game and although the game was enjoyable, i enjoyed way more with the first one. Specially because it was more challenging

When you start Spyro 2 you can notice they have added a lot of tutorial messages. Messages like "Press A on the air to glide" when you are on the 3rd or 4th level lol. If im in this level is because I know that.

The minigames are extremely easy and even the flying levels are very easy. The only part that I found harder was the bosses, specially the second one (gulp?) . The rest in general is very very easy. Spyro the dragon was easy, but this second game is too easy and that wasn't exciting.

I remember those mf with eggs you had to chase on the first game, they were annoying, but in this second game there is nothing like that. There are a pair of chases but way easier. Same for flying levels.


I hope the 3rd game is more like Spyro 1. For the moment, my ranking is:

1- Spyro the dragon
2 - Spyro 2: Ripto's rage

We are very lucky for having such a great trilogy with this pixar graphics and in just one game

[rarestMeow]

glad you like the trilogy so far! good luck with the third game!

original PSX games are very different in their feeling and collectathon mechanics. each game is trying to do something different:
> first game is a black sheep with original idea
> second game is more safe and simple
> third game is bigger than second one and cranks mini-games up to eleven

Crash Bandicoot is exactly the same in that regard

it is not, I dunno, Megaman 1-6 which literally the same game only with different robo-masters (and first game having only 6 instead of 8)

Originally posted by ni0g0s:

When you start Spyro 2 you can notice they have added a lot of tutorial messages. Messages like "Press A on the air to glide" when you are on the 3rd or 4th level lol. If im in this level is because I know that.

developers had the option to either preserve the games as they were (each game is its own thing) or try to unify the games under one design-doc

- and they went with the first option, feeling it will be more faithful to the original games and their legacy. each game has its own quirks and developers saved them intact. those tutorial messages were in PSX version of second game and were absent in PSX of first game

but not only that. for example the second game on PSX had unlockable super-flame (for 100% the game) and the player could restart the game from zero but still having that super-flame. Reignated Trilogy has that mechanics and that super-flame thing works ONLY in second title

Originally posted by ni0g0s:

The minigames are extremely easy and even the flying levels are very easy.

a common concern back in the days that Spyro 1 was too cryptic and challenging (Tree Tops...) so for Spyro 2 developers simplified the things and introduced the system that lowers the difficulty down if player struggle to finish a certain segment

Originally posted by ni0g0s:

The only part that I found harder was the bosses, specially the second one (gulp?) .

interestingly enough Gulp was THE EASIEST boss in PSX Spyro-2, but on Remake developers - for absolutely no reasons - boost his difficulty tenfold: he charges faster, his energy orbs shoot faster, have wide AoE and hard to dodge. my wildguess that due to faulty programming this battle always starts at maximum difficulty (see adjusting difficulty) and never goes down

the sudden swift of difficulty was compared by one reviewer to
> ....felt like I'd suddenly been dropped into Dark Souls in the middle of a game of tiddlywinks

https://www.eurogamer.net/spyro-reignited-trilogy-review-a-gorgeous-and-faithful-remaster-that-sometimes-gives-more-nostalgia-than-bargained-for

Originally posted by ni0g0s:

I hope the 3rd game is more than Spyro 1. For the moment, my ranking is:

it closer to Spyro-3 imho but that's up for debate. don't change my mind

Originally posted by ni0g0s:

We are very lucky for having such a great trilogy with this pixar graphics and in just one game

very true!

[ni0g0s]

wow amazing answer. Just one more thing: What is your ranking and why?

[rarestMeow]

Originally posted by ni0g0s:

What is your ranking?

YMMV obviously but:

Spyro 1 > Spyro 3 > Spyro 2

Spyro-1 feels the most 'raw' in the series and better paced. I love its simplicity, core platforming and challenge

Spyro-3 is worse in terms of challenge but the genuine atmosphere and variety are great. my biggest issue are mini-games: they are either hit or miss but they are short for once and variety doesn't make them boring of stale

Spyro-2 is short and painfully tedious. plus it has a stupid number of pitfalls (Alchemist quest) and plain annoying sections (Romeo-n-Juliet sequence). and I find its worlds bland

but I seen lots of comments when people been saying that Spyro-3 is worse or Spyro-2 is best, so whatever. it is a fanbase debate

I asked Spyro himself, he stated 2 > 3 > 1
https://i.postimg.cc/Gm1MJwd4/20230413-173725-firefox-70053.png

then I asked the best gamer girl in the world, Fluttershy, she went with 3 > 1 > 2
https://i.postimg.cc/mZzVv2rc/20230413-175356-firefox-00570.png

[NBOX21]

Funny how Spyro 2 is also my least favourite out of the original trilogy even though 3 is my absolute favourite of the three games. I think a big part of that has to do with the level design of both games as well and not just the mini-games.

In Spyro 2, the level design had to be built with the extra mini-games and challenges in mind which often resulted in either a lot of wasted space that could've been used for actual level design, or compromised level design to account for these side challenges. For example, the village in Skelos Badlands is used for nothing more than a mini-game requiring you to save the villagers from the lava lizards as opposed to being secret areas rewarding exploration.

Spyro 3's level design, on the other hand, is usually much closer to that of the first game in terms of how complex it can get, even early on. There are a lot of secret areas and multiple pathways that couldn't possibly be done with Spyro 2's level design philosophy. This, in turn, also benefits the side areas where the challenges are as they didn't have to put the challenges in the same parts of levels as the main level, allowing them to get a lot more creative with the challenges such as the skate parks and submarine areas.

Originally posted by rarestMeow:

glad you like the trilogy so far! good luck with the third game!

original PSX games are very different in their feeling and collectathon mechanics. each game is trying to do something different:
> first game is a black sheep with original idea
> second game is more safe and simple
> third game is bigger than second one and cranks mini-games up to eleven

Crash Bandicoot is exactly the same in that regard

The main difference between Crash 3 and Spyro 3 I found is that most of Spyro 3's mini-games and extra challenges are entirely optional if you just want to reach the end of the game and don't care about 100% completion. If you really don't like skateboard racing, you don't actually have to do it if you don't want to. In Crash 3, however, if you don't like motorbike racing, then tough luck! They're a mandatory part of the game so you have to do it whether you want to or not, even if you're not interested in 100% completion.

Even so, I actually want to do Spyro 3's mini-games as almost all of them tie into the core gameplay mechanics in some way. Even when I'm skateboarding, riding a submarine or playing as the extra characters, I'm still exploring open areas collecting gems and finding secret areas much like I am with Spyro. Crash 3's mini-games, however, often detract from the core mechanics of navigating tough obstacle courses and jumping over pits to reach the end of the level. i mean, what does motorbike racing have to do with Crash gameplay?

Spyro 3 has about as many levels as Spyro 1 and 2 did but they still felt like they were made with the same core structure, even with all the extra variety which was mainly reserved for optional side areas in those levels. Crash 3, meanwhile, may have 25 main levels much like Crash 2 before it but it feels like less than that due to some of them not even being proper Crash levels.

[Shocker]

Originally posted by NBOX21:

Funny how Spyro 2 is also my least favourite out of the original trilogy even though 3 is my absolute favourite of the three games. I think a big part of that has to do with the level design of both games as well and not just the mini-games.

In Spyro 2, the level design had to be built with the extra mini-games and challenges in mind which often resulted in either a lot of wasted space that could've been used for actual level design, or compromised level design to account for these side challenges. For example, the village in Skelos Badlands is used for nothing more than a mini-game requiring you to save the villagers from the lava lizards as opposed to being secret areas rewarding exploration.

Spyro 3's level design, on the other hand, is usually much closer to that of the first game in terms of how complex it can get, even early on. There are a lot of secret areas and multiple pathways that couldn't possibly be done with Spyro 2's level design philosophy. This, in turn, also benefits the side areas where the challenges are as they didn't have to put the challenges in the same parts of levels as the main level, allowing them to get a lot more creative with the challenges such as the skate parks and submarine areas.

Originally posted by rarestMeow:

glad you like the trilogy so far! good luck with the third game!

original PSX games are very different in their feeling and collectathon mechanics. each game is trying to do something different:
> first game is a black sheep with original idea
> second game is more safe and simple
> third game is bigger than second one and cranks mini-games up to eleven

Crash Bandicoot is exactly the same in that regard

The main difference between Crash 3 and Spyro 3 I found is that most of Spyro 3's mini-games and extra challenges are entirely optional if you just want to reach the end of the game and don't care about 100% completion. If you really don't like skateboard racing, you don't actually have to do it if you don't want to. In Crash 3, however, if you don't like motorbike racing, then tough luck! They're a mandatory part of the game so you have to do it whether you want to or not, even if you're not interested in 100% completion.

Even so, I actually want to do Spyro 3's mini-games as almost all of them tie into the core gameplay mechanics in some way. Even when I'm skateboarding, riding a submarine or playing as the extra characters, I'm still exploring open areas collecting gems and finding secret areas much like I am with Spyro. Crash 3's mini-games, however, often detract from the core mechanics of navigating tough obstacle courses and jumping over pits to reach the end of the level. i mean, what does motorbike racing have to do with Crash gameplay?

Spyro 3 has about as many levels as Spyro 1 and 2 did but they still felt like they were made with the same core structure, even with all the extra variety which was mainly reserved for optional side areas in those levels. Crash 3, meanwhile, may have 25 main levels much like Crash 2 before it but it feels like less than that due to some of them not even being proper Crash levels.

What does motorbike racing have to do with Crash gameplay? Have you ever heard about Crash Team Racing? What does hog riding and polar bear riding have to do with Crash gameplay? You make no sense bro. I don't get the hate for the vehicle levels in Warped. I love all of them. The motorbike levels are fun if you know how to do them. You can boost at the start, break, and everything you need for winning.

[Shocker]

The mini games are easy? They are for me because I been playing the Spyro trilogy since 20 year, but many people were whining about the crystal popcorn challenge, the Alchemist, the trouble with the trolley, and the speedway mini games. None of the games are that hard but Spyro 1 is still the easiest out of them. The only artificial difficulty in the first game if you can call that more difficult is that there is no hovering. I find Spyro 1 to be incredibly boring and empty. Spyro 2 improved on everything. The dragons in Spyro 1 give you even more tips than the second game.

[The Phasmid]

I'm in the same boat. I'd rate it Spyro 3 > Spyro >>>>> Spyro 2. Spyro 2 level designs and challenges don't flow together as well as 3 and 1. There's something off about it in comparison. Spyro 3 edges out the original, because the level variety and design keeps it consistently engaging whereas Spyro 1 has a couple of mediocre levels.

[NBOX21]

Originally posted by Shocker:

What does motorbike racing have to do with Crash gameplay? Have you ever heard about Crash Team Racing?

Yes I have. It's a racing game that wasn't even trying to be like the main platforming trilogy.

What does hog riding and polar bear riding have to do with Crash gameplay?

Both of these types of levels (as well as riding Pura in Warped) still have you jumping over pits and avoiding hazards just like the regular levels, except you're constantly moving forward kind of like how the boulder levels constantly push you towards the camera, making them variations of the core gameplay.

[rarestMeow]

Originally posted by NBOX21:

...constantly moving forward kind of like how the boulder levels constantly push you towards the camera...

I can't believe it took me 30 years to realize that those "run on hog/bear/tiger levels" and "run from boulder/bear levels" are essentially the same type of auto-scrolling but reversed

damn, I feel stupid

[ni0g0s]

Originally posted by rarestMeow:

Originally posted by NBOX21:

...constantly moving forward kind of like how the boulder levels constantly push you towards the camera...

I can't believe it took me 30 years to realize that those "run on hog/bear/tiger levels" and "run from boulder/bear levels" are essentially the same type of auto-scrolling but reversed

damn, I feel stupid

In fact Crash levels are more like a 2D game than like a 3D one, because they are very small corridors. It's like a 2D platform game but played from behind the character lol

[rarestMeow]

@ni0g0s , have you finished Spyro 3 yet? did you enjoy the game more or less than Spyro 1?

just a curiosity, it is your thread after all...

[NBOX21]

Originally posted by rarestMeow:

Originally posted by NBOX21:

...constantly moving forward kind of like how the boulder levels constantly push you towards the camera...

I can't believe it took me 30 years to realize that those "run on hog/bear/tiger levels" and "run from boulder/bear levels" are essentially the same type of auto-scrolling but reversed

damn, I feel stupid

I didn't even realise this myself at first either until I saw this developer interview on the production and development on the original Crash Bandicoot games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izxXGuVL21o
Around the 15:10 mark is where he explains how the boulder and hog levels are basically complete opposites of each other and how they both solve the problem of the added dimension that is the third dimension.

Originally posted by ni0g0s:

In fact Crash levels are more like a 2D game than like a 3D one, because they are very small corridors. It's like a 2D platform game but played from behind the character lol

If you saw the video I linked in the above response, you'll notice how Donkey Kong Country was the main inspiration behind the Crash Bandicoot games. Imagine what a game like DKC would play like, but in a 3D space.

[ni0g0s]

Originally posted by rarestMeow:

@ni0g0s , have you finished Spyro 3 yet? did you enjoy the game more or less than Spyro 1?

just a curiosity, it is your thread after all...

No, i'll play it in some months. Dont want to play it now because i would be unfair with it since i had much Spyro 2 (completed 100% in 3 days). Now i have to play other things or ill be saturated of spyro. I completed the first one in November and even loving it, didnt want to start the second one in that time.

I always do this with all games. I dont play 2 games from the same saga in a row. When i did it, i ended up saturated and didn't enjoy the second game as much as i could.

[rarestMeow]

Originally posted by ni0g0s:

No, i'll play it in some months. Dont want to play it now because i would be unfair with it since i had much Spyro 2 (completed 100% in 3 days).

shucks!

Originally posted by ni0g0s:

I dont play 2 games from the same saga in a row. When i did it, i ended up saturated and didn't enjoy the second game as much as i could.

that makes perfect sense, actually. too bad I have no such moderation and always over-play the series and then constantly whine about how all those games look the same and how bored and tired I am

Originally posted by NBOX21:

I didn't even realise this myself at first either until I saw this developer interview on the production and development on the original Crash Bandicoot games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izxXGuVL21o

oh my god! the way they overcome memory limitation is ingenious ! seriously, break the level into smaller clusters and procedurally load the needed packages? insane

videos like this make me appreciate old school developers more. nowadays developers just threw sh1t together and hope that users' ram/cpu/gpu can handle it, and b1tch on 'upgrade your PC bro' whenever you confront them. no creativity and thinking out of box. just bloatware 3D engine with half-baked assets .

that series of videos is really entertaining. I briefly checked videos on Dead Space, Myst, The Thief and Diablo - and I am in love with the format. will watch it fully when with more free time. thanks!

PS, too bad there is no interview with Howard Scott Warshaw explaining what kind of weed he been smoking while making Yars' Revenge

[NBOX21]

Originally posted by rarestMeow:

oh my god! the way they overcome memory limitation is ingenious ! seriously, break the level into smaller clusters and procedurally load the needed packages? insane

videos like this make me appreciate old school developers more. nowadays developers just threw sh1t together and hope that users' ram/cpu/gpu can handle it, and b1tch on 'upgrade your PC bro' whenever you confront them. no creativity and thinking out of box. just bloatware 3D engine with half-baked assets .

that series of videos is really entertaining. I briefly checked videos on Dead Space, Myst, The Thief and Diablo - and I am in love with the format. will watch it fully when with more free time. thanks!

If you're interested in that kind of content, you may also enjoy the GameHut YouTube channel run by Jon Burton, the lead programmer from Traveller's Tales. He also does technical breakdowns of some of his own work and explains how he worked around the limitations he had to work with such as how he got a 12 second FMV to fit on a 4MB Mega Drive cartridge. Those videos are much shorter in length too, so you're not as likely to be burned out by them.

But yeah, limitations breed creativity. That's one of the biggest reasons why indie games have gotten very popular in recent years - they know they have their limits, but do whatever they can to make the most out of the limitations they have.