Backtracking in Spyro 2

[NBOX21]

One thing I hear from a lot of people is how great it is that Spyro 2 had some unlockable new abilities that expand upon Spyro's moveset such as swimming, climbing and headbash. While that's great and all, it also adds some really dumb and unnecessary backtracking to the experience.

Sunny Beach has a turtle soup minigame right near the end of the level which you can't play until you learn how to climb, and the minigame itself does absolutely nothing with the climbing ability. Shady Oasis requires the headbash move to play one minigame that lasts around 20 seconds on top of the fact that you basically have to play the entire level again since you need the invincibility powerup which requires you to defeat most of the enemies to activate.

These just feel like unnecessary roadblocks that halt progression for no good reason rather than actually expanding upon the core gameplay. Swimming was really the only good unlockable ability due to how much it actually adds to the gameplay, yet is the first one you unlock anyway.

And yes, Spyro 3 had backtracking as well, but that game did it miles better in every way possible - levels contain shortcuts that take you straight to the end upon finishing them for the first time so you're never required to replay levels in their entirety again unless you missed something and the locked areas actually make sense since they require the other characters to access them, thus you're doing something substantially different on your second visit.

[Soldier 96]

Agreed!

[dynastystar]

where do I even GET headbash?

[NBOX21]

Originally posted by dynastystar:

where do I even GET headbash?

You don't get it until Winter Tundra, the third and final home world of Spyro 2. You have to buy it from Moneybags for 1,000 gems.

[dynastystar]

Originally posted by NBOX21:

Originally posted by dynastystar:

where do I even GET headbash?

You don't get it until Winter Tundra, the third and final home world of Spyro 2. You have to buy it from Moneybags for 1,000 gems.

okay thanks :) I'll try not to worry about 100%ing the second world then.

[Danielviomusic]

Well, these are >20 years old, so discussing game's design is pretty pointless. However, that's one of the reasons I prefer the first game over any other, anytime. Spyro 2 and 3 had way too many pace-breaking features. All the sphere missions in Spyro 2, the side-characters and minigames in Spyro 3. I personally hate every single one of them. And sometimes, as you say, you are forced to backtrack to do a stupid ass minigame you had to skip because you didn't have the required ability.

Spyro 1 on the other hand plays it simple but effective: No unnecessary walls, no moneybags, no anything. Just platforming. And all worlds are thematic, which is something all the other Spyro lack, and I simply love.

So yeah, I agree with everything you just said.

[NBOX21]

Originally posted by Danielviomusic:

Well, these are >20 years old, so discussing game's design is pretty pointless. However, that's one of the reasons I prefer the first game over any other, anytime. Spyro 2 and 3 had way too many pace-breaking features. All the sphere missions in Spyro 2, the side-characters and minigames in Spyro 3. I personally hate every single one of them. And sometimes, as you say, you are forced to backtrack to do a stupid ass minigame you had to skip because you didn't have the required ability.

Although in the case of Spyro 3 I don't mind it nearly as much (it's my favourite in the trilogy for a reason) because returning to levels later on opens up a shortcut that takes you straight to the end of the level which is often where these character mini-games are. Plus, using these characters actually opens up new sections of levels you haven't even seen before, thus giving me a good reason to revisit these levels.

In the case of Spyro 2, the levels reset upon revisiting them, and the headbash doesn't even offer that much IMO. I mean, you even have to replay all of Shady Oasis just to defeat enough enemies to activate the invincibility powerup to play the rock bash mini-game which requires the headbash from the next world. None of the challenges requiring the climb ability to access actually use the climb ability for said challenges either.

Besides, I love nearly all of the mini-games and variety in 3 as they usually still tie into the core gameplay of collecting gems and exploring open areas as well as controlling very well and being fun to play from my experience while still offering something new to the table to keep things fresh. Very few games manage to do this successfully in my eyes, and that's what makes them work well for me where many other games, including Spyro 2, fail in this regard.

Originally posted by Danielviomusic:

Spyro 1 on the other hand plays it simple but effective: No unnecessary walls, no moneybags, no anything. Just platforming. And all worlds are thematic, which is something all the other Spyro lack, and I simply love.

So yeah, I agree with everything you just said.

I appreciate that about Spyro 1 actually. While I still prefer 3 for its sheer variety and ambition brought to the table, as well as fixing a lot of 2's flaws and even returning to a lot of that Spyro 1 design I loved such as going back to enemies dropping gems and removing the spirit particles altogether, Spyro 1 still has that "simple, yet effective" gameplay that no other collect-a-thon has, making for probably the most speedrunning friendly game in the genre even when compared to its sequels.

[Soldier 96]

I like to read the discussion in this thread :)

[[SpeC]vanle3]

The backtracking is the main reason why I prefer Spyro 1. Play a level, complete it, done.

[Uzi Master]

2 was my least favourite due to backtracking and too many minigames compared to the platforming. The homeworlds were my favourite though, (which are also the only levels where you straight up platform for orbs)

At least you can still skip the ladder in Glimmer, much as they tried to stop that,

[NBOX21]

Originally posted by Uzi Master:

At least you can still skip the ladder in Glimmer, much as they tried to stop that,

Even without glitches, you can just use the superfly powerup and fly through the cave to reach the other powerup on top of the ladder you're supposed to climb up.

[Uzi Master]

That's what I was referring too.

[PainkilleR]

I absolutely loved the fact that you had to revisit levels back when I first played Spyro 2. All the secrets and all the places I couldn't get on the first try made levels more mysterious and interesting to me. Plus I didn't know Sparx could point to missing gems (could he though?) so I revisited some levels more than twice.

Ultimately though I think it comes down to whether you like the game or not. If you like it then you will gladly take an "unnecessary backtracking" as an excuse to revisit levels for the 100th time. If not then I guess backtracking would feel like a chore to you.

It's just like when you lose your save files in games due to some bug... And then some people get angry at devs because they hate the idea of replaying the game, and others will look at the lost save as an opportunity to replay the game once again.

[Lost Drunk]

For me still funny make the backtracking in Spyro 2 due in blind run you can explore again some places and get more secrets than in first visit. I remember spending some time to get all the gems and orbs when I was a child. Today people just search a video on internet and lost all the fun.
I agree your point only after get 100% for the first time and try play again the entire game, but you can run some levels and get all missing items later. The only level that I get frustrated when younger is on Fracture Hills where you need do the same task again to get Hunter free. (on PSX was a pain)

[dynastystar]

Originally posted by PainkilleR:

I absolutely loved the fact that you had to revisit levels back when I first played Spyro 2. All the secrets and all the places I couldn't get on the first try made levels more mysterious and interesting to me. Plus I didn't know Sparx could point to missing gems (could he though?) so I revisited some levels more than twice.

Ultimately though I think it comes down to whether you like the game or not. If you like it then you will gladly take an "unnecessary backtracking" as an excuse to revisit levels for the 100th time. If not then I guess backtracking would feel like a chore to you.

It's just like when you lose your save files in games due to some bug... And then some people get angry at devs because they hate the idea of replaying the game, and others will look at the lost save as an opportunity to replay the game once again.

holddddddd up, Sparx can point to missing gems?

[NBOX21]

Originally posted by dynastystar:

holddddddd up, Sparx can point to missing gems?

Yep. On PS1, if you hold all four shoulder buttons at once, he'll point to the nearest treasure. Introduced in Spyro 2, this feature is available from the start of the game but is permanently active after beating the final boss, but in Spyro 3, you have to unlock this feature by finishing the first two Sparx levels.

For those playing the Reignited Trilogy, just click the right stick (R3) to use the gem finder feature, only now it's available for all 3 games from the start (even if I still greatly prefer having to unlock it for 3).

Originally posted by Lost Drunk:

The only level that I get frustrated when younger is on Fracture Hills where you need do the same task again to get Hunter free.

Oh yeah, that was super frustrating, realising you need the headbash ability after successfully escorting the alchemist to free Hunter only to have to redo the minigame again after coming back. Spyro 3 never pulled anything like this.

My way around it is to ignore the minigame and just reach the level exit then come back after unlocking the headbash move.