Food Growing Times and Botany

[a small rabbit]

So i was trying to balance out all my food growing on my ship along with playing with the kitchen settings to balance meals and i kept running into the question: How many grow beds of each do i need?

I did some searching and came up with conflicting results but the most common one seemed to be that fruits and veggies took 3 cycles to grow, and nuts and meat were 4.5 cycles. This was from an AI summary pulled from an older reddit thread of an older version where someone did extensive testing: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceHaven/comments/nlxfop/food_miniguide_alpha_12/

Now i started planning based on these numbers, but quickly decided to test things for myself, because i always like to check and verify that the results i get in game match the info i've gotten.

This is where i started to run into problems. I setup a quick test with one of the prebuilt ships in a new game, gave myself the research i needed to grow everything (minus the growth bonuses), popped down 4 grow beds and put one of each food type in them, had people deliver water/fertilizer at almost the same time and started measuring.

First off, Fruits and Veggies grow at almost the exact same speed, which was expected. Meat however, was growing a little faster then the Nuts, when they were supposed to be the same. Hmmm.

At the end of the first 3 cycles this is what i was looking at:

	Day 4 block 22 - 3 cycles
		Fruit	- 80
		Veg	- 81
		Meat	- 55
		Nuts	- 53

Fruit and Veggies weren't close to being done at 3 cycles, and i was using 4 level 10 Botanists to tend everything, minimal downtime for tending, and ideal conditions the whole time.

Fruit and Veggies both finished partway into the 4th cycle. Meat finished next during the 6th cycle, and nuts followed a bit after also during the 6th cycle.

So i started thinking of how i was going to set up a bunch of tests to measure the growing times and what skill level of Botany i should use since foods require different levels. I tried doing a setup on brutal a couple of times with the same prebuilt ship but kept forgetting to give myself all the resources i needed to build everything, and i started getting annoyed.

That's when i realized the answer was staring me in the face.

See when you click on the foods in the grow bed it TELLS you "Food amount per day" and i was always wondering, what exactly is that telling you? Then i remembered the values in the kitchen. Each food in the kitchen has a different food value, those values correspond to one unit of that food.

IE: Fruit grows @40.4 per day, it has a valueof 146 in the kitchen. It takes 146/40.4 = 3.613 cycles to grow one unit of fruit.

I calculated all these values and matched them to the test i ran and accounting for tending time, they all lined up.

I then ran a test on my current game using the 10% research bonus and that matched too.

So yea, figured that out.

TLDR:

fruit 40.4/146	= 3.613 cycles (3.285 cycles 10% bonus)
veg 64.5/233	= 3.612 cycles (3.284 cycles 10% bonus)
nuts 69.3/385	= 5.555 cycles (5.050 cycles 10% bonus)
meat 63.5/335	= 5.275 cycles (4.795 cycles 10% bonus)

EDIT: Adding in basic daily production per grow bed slot.

To figure out how many grow beds you would need, multiple your kitchen value percentage x number of crew. IE: If your fruit is set to 8% you should be able to support 3 crew off a single slot and still have a margin to account for tending time/delays. (0.08 * 3 = 0.24)

Base Daily Production(single slot of a grow bed)
fruit	= 0.276 units/day
veg	= 0.276 units/day
nuts	= 0.180 units/day
meat	= 0.208 units/day (10% bonus is base)

One thing i'm left wondering is what exactly Botany skill does? Because it says it makes stuff grow faster, but it doesn't, only the growth bonus from research does. I'm assuming it just reduces the tending time and/or reduces the amount of times crops need to be tended.

[Lanthrudar]

Great research! Maybe Botany is broken, if its supposed to give a grow bonus instead of a tend bonus

[Nordil(Hun)]

I would not use an AI for this:)

https://steamcommunity.com/app/979110/discussions/0/3108016336237731836/

Vegetables and Fruits have both 1300 ticks and 4 cycles. However for me Fruits always were slightly earlier available than vegetables. By about ~5 hours. Which means it is possible it is just a stat error.

Meat and Nuts are more in allignement with this.

These are numbers. Yes, i waited out the time that time for each plant:P
https://steamcommunity.com/app/979110/discussions/0/603021401728746202/

[a small rabbit]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

I would not use an AI for this:)

Please READ, i said i got AI results when searching for info, not that i used AI. I checked all those thread when searching.

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

https://steamcommunity.com/app/979110/discussions/0/3108016336237731836/

I did another test with full research bonuses and my numbers pretty closely matched the grow times in this thead.

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Vegetables and Fruits have both 1300 ticks and 4 cycles. However for me Fruits always were slightly earlier available than vegetables. By about ~5 hours. Which means it is possible it is just a stat error.

Meat and Nuts are more in allignement with this.

These are numbers. Yes, i waited out the time that time for each plant:P
https://steamcommunity.com/app/979110/discussions/0/603021401728746202/

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

So Fruit is 50 hours, meat is around 3 days+1 hour and nuts 3 days and 5 or 6 hours.

Your numbers are off, so you messed up somewhere. Also "ticks" isn't very useful info without context. What is a tick? How long is a tick? How many ticks are in a cycle?

Here are my test results:

Expected results with 30% bonus:
fruit	- 2.779 cycles (Day 4 block 10-11)
veg	- 2.778 cycles (Day 4 block 10-11)
meat	- 4.058 cycles (Day 5 block 16-17)
nuts	- 4.273 cycles (Day 5 block 22-23)

Day 1 - block 15
fruit	- 0
veg	- 0
meat	- 0
nuts	- 0

Harvest
fruit	- Day 4 - block 12
veg	- Day 4 - block 11
meat	- Day 5 - block 19
nuts	- Day 6 - block 0

Notes: Tending sometimes takes almost a full hour
for higher skilled plants which delays times.

Which match the numbers from the first thread you linked:

Grow beds	Eaten	Excess	Produced	Food per day per bed	Days to grow
9	100,8	28	128,8	0,35778	2,795031056
9	100,8	29	129,8	0,36056	2,773497689
18	58,8	121	179,8	0,24972	4,004449388
10	67,2	24	91,2	0,22800	4,385964912

The TLDR is that you can calculate crop grow times based on the food grown per day value on the bed multipled by any research bonus (IE: 40.4 for fruit *1.1 = 44.44 with 10% bonus) and divide the food value from the kitchen with that for how long it will take.

Tending time/travel time will slow it down.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Fruits once you also have advanced nutrition takes about 50 hours to grow.
Vegetables used to take more.

I think Fruits used to only have 3 cycles. So 1300*3/1,3/60=~50 hours.
Which if you calculate without any nutrition bonus becomes 1300*3=65 hours -> 2 days and 17 hours
(Which is around 2,71 days)
Afaik Vegetables have 4 cycle though, so they should be like 86 hours. Or maybe they reduced them, since you could make good meals without even including them.
Meat and nuts definetly dont have now 1900 and 2000. If those numbers of yours are correct.
Meat is closer to 1500-1600 ticks.

Btw "Tick" is a second in the game. In this game 1 hour consists of 60 seconds.
So you can calculate the "ticks" or the time it takes using the hours.
But it will still only be a rudementary estimate:(


time="1300" co2PerMinute="15" oxygenPerMinute="10" h2oPerMinute="25" minTemp="273" maxTemp="313"

Time=1300-> This means 1300 seconds or ticks are needed in order for the plant to grow one cycle.

[a small rabbit]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Fruits once you also have advanced nutrition takes about 50 hours to grow.
Vegetables used to take more.

I think Fruits used to only have 3 cycles. So 1300*3/1,3/60=~50 hours.
Which if you calculate without any nutrition bonus becomes 1300*3=65 hours -> 2 days and 17 hours
(Which is around 2,71 days)
Afaik Vegetables have 4 cycle though, so they should be like 86 hours. Or maybe they reduced them, since you could make good meals without even including them.
Meat and nuts definetly dont have now 1900 and 2000. If those numbers of yours are correct.
Meat is closer to 1500-1600 ticks.

Btw "Tick" is a second in the game. In this game 1 hour consists of 60 seconds.
So you can calculate the "ticks" or the time it takes using the hours.
But it will still only be a rudementary estimate:(


time="1300" co2PerMinute="15" oxygenPerMinute="10" h2oPerMinute="25" minTemp="273" maxTemp="313"

Time=1300-> This means 1300 seconds or ticks are needed in order for the plant to grow one cycle.

The fastest fruit growth is 66.7 hours with 30% nurition bonus, how or where are you getting 50 hours? Show some actual proof.

I don't know what you are trying to argue, i am providing hard numbers from testing. You can easily verify by starting a new game, putting down some grow beds and measuring the time like i did. you are doing nothing but guessing and making assumptions based on code properties you don't seem to understand.

My actual results matched my expected results based on the info found in the game and I tested with all levels of research and that's all i care about.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by a small rabbit:

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Fruits once you also have advanced nutrition takes about 50 hours to grow.
Vegetables used to take more.

I think Fruits used to only have 3 cycles. So 1300*3/1,3/60=~50 hours.
Which if you calculate without any nutrition bonus becomes 1300*3=65 hours -> 2 days and 17 hours
(Which is around 2,71 days)
Afaik Vegetables have 4 cycle though, so they should be like 86 hours. Or maybe they reduced them, since you could make good meals without even including them.
Meat and nuts definetly dont have now 1900 and 2000. If those numbers of yours are correct.
Meat is closer to 1500-1600 ticks.

Btw "Tick" is a second in the game. In this game 1 hour consists of 60 seconds.
So you can calculate the "ticks" or the time it takes using the hours.
But it will still only be a rudementary estimate:(


time="1300" co2PerMinute="15" oxygenPerMinute="10" h2oPerMinute="25" minTemp="273" maxTemp="313"

Time=1300-> This means 1300 seconds or ticks are needed in order for the plant to grow one cycle.

The fastest fruit growth is 66.7 hours with 30% nurition bonus, how or where are you getting 50 hours? Show some actual proof.

I don't know what you are trying to argue, i am providing hard numbers from testing. You can easily verify by starting a new game, putting down some grow beds and measuring the time like i did. you are doing nothing but guessing and making assumptions based on code properties you don't seem to understand.

My actual results matched my expected results based on the info found in the game and I tested with all levels of research and that's all i care about.

And mine as well, but again i am saying that these numbers are a bit older(pre-release in EA.). So if they altered the growth time they are now different.

Which means that if fruits are now 66.7 hours with 30% nutrition then they are now a 4 growing cycle item. Instead of the 3 they used to be.

In the past(pre-release in the EA) it took 3900 seconds for them to grow. 3900/1,3/60=50.
But if they now take 66,7 hours with 30% nutrition then it is 5200/1,3/60=66,67
So they have now exactly the same growth times as the vegetables.

So it seems their growing cycle was increased, which is not really surprising, since Fruits were very strong beause of their low growth time. Vegetables could be completely left out from any meal, making you only grow them as a tool for trade.

I elaborate on this a bit.
In the past Fruits had only 3 growing cycles and veggies 4. This made the Fruits grow faster. In meal settings Fruits vitamin is more important then what nutritients the veggies could offer, to the point that you could and should have made most of your meals without having any vegetables in it. You could completely replace them with fruits. Which made it available that you only need to grow 3 things and a lot easier as to say management of the growing beds and meals.

[a small rabbit]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

And mine as well, but again i am saying that these numbers are a bit older(pre-release in EA.). So if they altered the growth time they are now different.

Which means that if fruits are now 66.7 hours with 30% nutrition then they are now a 4 growing cycle item. Instead of the 3 they used to be.

In the past(pre-release in the EA) it took 3900 seconds for them to grow. 3900/1,3/60=50.
But if they now take 66,7 hours with 30% nutrition then it is 5200/1,3/60=66,67
So they have now exactly the same growth times as the vegetables.

So it seems their growing cycle was increased, which is not really surprising, since Fruits were very strong beause of their low growth time. Vegetables could be completely left out from any meal, making you only grow them as a tool for trade.

I elaborate on this a bit.
In the past Fruits had only 3 growing cycles and veggies 4. This made the Fruits grow faster. In meal settings Fruits vitamin is more important then what nutritients the veggies could offer, to the point that you could and should have made most of your meals without having any vegetables in it. You could completely replace them with fruits. Which made it available that you only need to grow 3 things and a lot easier as to say management of the growing beds and meals.

Do you not see the problem with this?

I went looking for info and found a bunch of stuff from older versions, so i did my own testing for what was current in the 1.0 release to try and provide current and accurate information.

You are contradicting me with outdated information that no longer seems to apply in 1.0 and continue to be confusing by saying how it used to work.

I don't care how it USED to work, it's not helpful.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by a small rabbit:

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

And mine as well, but again i am saying that these numbers are a bit older(pre-release in EA.). So if they altered the growth time they are now different.

Which means that if fruits are now 66.7 hours with 30% nutrition then they are now a 4 growing cycle item. Instead of the 3 they used to be.

In the past(pre-release in the EA) it took 3900 seconds for them to grow. 3900/1,3/60=50.
But if they now take 66,7 hours with 30% nutrition then it is 5200/1,3/60=66,67
So they have now exactly the same growth times as the vegetables.

So it seems their growing cycle was increased, which is not really surprising, since Fruits were very strong beause of their low growth time. Vegetables could be completely left out from any meal, making you only grow them as a tool for trade.

I elaborate on this a bit.
In the past Fruits had only 3 growing cycles and veggies 4. This made the Fruits grow faster. In meal settings Fruits vitamin is more important then what nutritients the veggies could offer, to the point that you could and should have made most of your meals without having any vegetables in it. You could completely replace them with fruits. Which made it available that you only need to grow 3 things and a lot easier as to say management of the growing beds and meals.

Do you not see the problem with this?

I went looking for info and found a bunch of stuff from older versions, so i did my own testing for what was current in the 1.0 release to try and provide current and accurate information.

You are contradicting me with outdated information that no longer seems to apply in 1.0 and continue to be confusing by saying how it used to work.

I don't care how it USED to work, it's not helpful.

No i see the problem, and i apologize for spreading outdated info.

[TheWhitestOfFangs]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

No i see the problem, and i apologize for spreading outdated info.

I applaud you for this statement.

I think that this was a very valuable discussion and, as it goes with adversarial processes, the community got the real numbers and knowledge. Thank you both.


As a side note: Does this mean that botany skill doesn't really matter other than some minimal level? It seems to be a fixed 30% bonus ("grow speed 130%") above a certain level regardless.

[a small rabbit]

Originally posted by TheWhitestOfFangs:

As a side note: Does this mean that botany skill doesn't really matter other than some minimal level? It seems to be a fixed 30% bonus ("grow speed 130%") above a certain level regardless.

The 30% growth bonus comes from the 2 research techs Advanced Nutrition 1 and 2 (10% and 20% respectively) which stack.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by TheWhitestOfFangs:

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

No i see the problem, and i apologize for spreading outdated info.

I applaud you for this statement.

I think that this was a very valuable discussion and, as it goes with adversarial processes, the community got the real numbers and knowledge. Thank you both.

As a side note: Does this mean that botany skill doesn't really matter other than some minimal level? It seems to be a fixed 30% bonus ("grow speed 130%") above a certain level regardless.

Botany skill is required in order to be able to plant certain foodstuffs.
Fruit needs level 4, nuts needs 5 and meat needs 6.
(I steem to recall them being lower but i might misremember)

Someone also said that the higher the botany skill the faster they finish their job while tending to a growing plant/meat during their cycle.
I am not sure how much this is true. But even if it is it is likely miniscule. So saving a few seconds here and there which you can also do with faster work speed.

[SM0K3 J4GU4R]

Based on this:

Small ship: 3 fruit, 3 veg, 5 nuts, 4 meat
Big ship: 6 fruit, 6 veg, 10 nuts, 8 meat

[Lanthrudar]

Originally posted by R3D4C7ED SM0K3 J4GU4R:

Based on this:

Small ship: 3 fruit, 3 veg, 5 nuts, 4 meat
Big ship: 6 fruit, 6 veg, 10 nuts, 8 meat

Not sure what 'small' or 'big' ship size is in reference to this, but assume its some number of expected crew size for each

[TheWhitestOfFangs]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Botany skill is required in order to be able to plant certain foodstuffs.
Fruit needs level 4, nuts needs 5 and meat needs 6.
(I steem to recall them being lower but i might misremember)

Someone also said that the higher the botany skill the faster they finish their job while tending to a growing plant/meat during their cycle.
I am not sure how much this is true. But even if it is it is likely miniscule. So saving a few seconds here and there which you can also do with faster work speed.

I did not notice any work speed difference (except people who have high work speed % bonus in general).
I would think that the speed bonus due to high botany is expected, but not actually implemented (or too small to notice). Maybe the devs will change that at some point.

[a small rabbit]

Originally posted by TheWhitestOfFangs:

I did not notice any work speed difference (except people who have high work speed % bonus in general).
I would think that the speed bonus due to high botany is expected, but not actually implemented (or too small to notice). Maybe the devs will change that at some point.

It's there, it would add up over time.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/979110/discussions/0/660485414036176007/

But as you mentioned, work speed also comes into play and i don't know how work speed is calculated. Whether it is a flat bonus or multiplied. I tested with two people with the same work speed and only botany was different.