Buff Supermonkey.

[katanaofsubterfuge]

I know for the devs, they are pretty out of touch with the basics of the game because they are so focused on high level strategies and such, but let's just take a moment to think of the noobies. A Supermonkey is in many cases worse than spamming a bunch of weak towers, that does not make sense. You spend all game saving up money for it, leaking bloons, risking death, and it's weaker than the safer option of spamming weak towers with gradual upgrades?

Same with heli pilot, extremely weak tower, unless you have like 50k saved up and are going straight for the t4 paths.

[randomguy]

super monkey is designed for lategame. try using its high tier upgrades.

[Vivianite]

how unskilled are you to call super monkey a weak tower. same with heli, you haven't used these towers hardly enough and are talking non-sense.

[katanaofsubterfuge]

Guys, I'm not talking about their late game upgrades. That's entirely the point. Their low-tiers are useless garbage. They just exist for you to plop down and skip all their low-tier upgrades straight to the good ones.

[randomguy]

Originally posted by randomguy:

super monkey is designed for lategame. try using its high tier upgrades.

not to mention sun avatar is an extremely good midgame carry, especially with the monkey knowledge that lets it pop purples.

[Vivianite]

Originally posted by katanaofsubterfuge:

Guys, I'm not talking about their late game upgrades. That's entirely the point. Their low-tiers are useless garbage. They just exist for you to plop down and skip all their low-tier upgrades straight to the good ones.

plasma, knockback, persuit, bigger jets, etc.
i can keep going unless you want to keep raising the goalpost

[randomguy]

Originally posted by Vivianite:

Originally posted by katanaofsubterfuge:

Guys, I'm not talking about their late game upgrades. That's entirely the point. Their low-tiers are useless garbage. They just exist for you to plop down and skip all their low-tier upgrades straight to the good ones.

plasma, knockback, persuit, bigger jets, etc.
i can keep going unless you want to keep raising the goalpost

MOAB push is also a pretty good low cost heli upgrade iirc, it makes it shoot a missile now if you didn't know.

[katanaofsubterfuge]

Originally posted by Vivianite:

plasma, knockback, persuit, bigger jets, etc.
i can keep going unless you want to keep raising the goalpost

I literally mean t0 super monkey mostly, and plasma is still weaker than small tower/small upgrade spam. Wait, how is pursuit/bigger jets good at all....?

[randomguy]

Originally posted by katanaofsubterfuge:

Originally posted by Vivianite:

plasma, knockback, persuit, bigger jets, etc.
i can keep going unless you want to keep raising the goalpost

I literally mean t0 super monkey mostly, and plasma is still weaker than small tower/small upgrade spam. Wait, how is pursuit/bigger jets good at all....?

almost every t0 tower is completely useless. your point?

[katanaofsubterfuge]

Originally posted by randomguy:

almost every t0 tower is completely useless. your point?

My point? buff them obviously.

[randomguy]

Originally posted by katanaofsubterfuge:

Originally posted by randomguy:

almost every t0 tower is completely useless. your point?

My point? buff them obviously.

explain why. explain why every tower needs to be good without upgrades.

[Vivianite]

Originally posted by katanaofsubterfuge:

Originally posted by Vivianite:

plasma, knockback, persuit, bigger jets, etc.
i can keep going unless you want to keep raising the goalpost

I literally mean t0 super monkey mostly, and plasma is still weaker than small tower/small upgrade spam. Wait, how is pursuit/bigger jets good at all....?

you literally haven't used heli if you're asking these questions, go use it, right now.
plasma doubles attack speed and pops leds wdym weaker? name me a tier 2 or less monkey that does 33 dps with 2 pierce

[katanaofsubterfuge]

Originally posted by randomguy:

explain why. explain why every tower needs to be good without upgrades.

They should reflect the value of their price, with, or without upgrades. Though, I can concede that having 'bad' towers that only exist as place-holders until upgraded is a strategy in itself, it is ultimately not a good one and leads to less variety in game mechanics.

[battlezoby]

Actually, the Supermonkey was in Bloon Tower Defense (null, the very first version with no number and only 1 map.) As such, it's a legacy tower that sort has to be here just-because.

The xx5 is pretty horrible value for what it does. I haven't done any real objective testing, but xx4 seems pretty bad too. But I think you're underestimating the 3xx, especially the 320 boosted by a Village or whatever for Camo detection.

I think perhaps a better explaination is that dropped the most expensive monkey is a no-brainer, and no-brainer's really shouldn't be rewarded.

As far as spamming lower values being easier, well, not only does it take more clicking and more placement, but it's not even all that possible on some expert maps like Inferno due to limited space.

[katanaofsubterfuge]

Yeah, I thought about the no-brainer thing as well, but spamming weak towers with small upgrades is even less brainier and much more effective.

[randomguy]

Originally posted by katanaofsubterfuge:

Yeah, I thought about the no-brainer thing as well, but spamming weak towers with small upgrades is even less brainier and much more effective.

it's much bigger brain to place down 10 towers than it is to place down 1 and hit a few buttons