Bloons are the same on every level?

[L0ki]

So wait, every single level has exactly the same enemies? Lol wat? That seems lazy as hell and like this game will get boring and repetitive unbelievably quickly. Good td games tune the enemies to the level design.

[williamatics16]

I agree that most of the beginner maps are too similar, but many of the harder maps are different enough to require unique strategies. Besides, there are way too many maps to add different bloons to every single one.

[Ninja Zyborg]

Originally posted by L0ki:

So wait, every single level has exactly the same enemies? Lol wat? That seems lazy as hell and like this game will get boring and repetitive unbelievably quickly. Good td games tune the enemies to the level design.

play apopalypse if you hate the base game so much lol

[KatiDragoion]

Originally posted by L0ki:

So wait, every single level has exactly the same enemies? Lol wat? That seems lazy as hell and like this game will get boring and repetitive unbelievably quickly. Good td games tune the enemies to the level design.

Firstly, they are the same because it's basically a FREEPLAY aspect. BTD6 doesn't have a campaign like other tds. If you want changes, how about playing ABR or apopalypse, or oddessies w/ custom bloon rounds.

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by L0ki:

So wait, every single level has exactly the same enemies? Lol wat? That seems lazy as hell and like this game will get boring and repetitive unbelievably quickly. Good td games tune the enemies to the level design.

Nice hot take you got there.

TD games with a campaign style mode that gradually introduces new towers are required to tune each level to the towers that are available.
Open ended, infinitely scaling TD games like Gemcraft get to do whatever they want (more or less), because grind.
TD games like this one are static so you can plan your defences with everything available up front. There's a reason most people dislike Apopalypse, because suddenly getting a swarm of things you aren't in a position to counter yet is quite annoying.

[battlezoby]

Originally posted by L0ki:

So wait, every single level has exactly the same enemies?

Actually, both Apopalypse and "Alternate Bloon Rounds" have slightly
different enemy rounds.

Players can also change several stats when making Challenges, and for their own
Odysseys, Challenges, or other special events, Ninja Kiwi sometimes has "Custom
Rounds" which can make large or small changes to the enemy sequence in ways
that ordinary player-challenges can not.

But yea. The game largely presumes you'll memorize the order. I didn't like that
but slowly got more used to it. Since I don't like spoilers, but could have written
down all the round 1-by-1, I decided to have friend print out a list of the all the normal
rounds so I could have same information that I would have if I took the time to compile
it myself, but I wouldn't risk accidently encountering other spoilers while looking,

BTW... there's something really bizzare about the list; I'd mention it here, but I kind of want to make it a top-level thread sometime.

[L0ki]

Originally posted by Evilsod:

Originally posted by L0ki:

So wait, every single level has exactly the same enemies? Lol wat? That seems lazy as hell and like this game will get boring and repetitive unbelievably quickly. Good td games tune the enemies to the level design.

Nice hot take you got there.

TD games with a campaign style mode that gradually introduces new towers are required to tune each level to the towers that are available.
Open ended, infinitely scaling TD games like Gemcraft get to do whatever they want (more or less), because grind.
TD games like this one are static so you can plan your defences with everything available up front. There's a reason most people dislike Apopalypse, because suddenly getting a swarm of things you aren't in a position to counter yet is quite annoying.

Totally random enemies is an even worse, even lazier implementation so I’m not surprised people don’t like that. Losing purely to RNG isn’t great design either. You can tune the enemies to the map design while still giving the player all the available towers so it isn’t something that even requires a campaign.

[Banana]

First they're not the same, they have a family, they have a bright future.
Second : think of it in anu other game. Would say, about let's say God of War "oh hell this game sucks, it's always the same enemies"? Or about Resident Evil "this sucks, it's always the same zombies".
Don"t focus on the enemis, focus on the gameplay that's the key.
And never hirt bloons' feelings again.

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by L0ki:

Totally random enemies is an even worse, even lazier implementation so I’m not surprised people don’t like that. Losing purely to RNG isn’t great design either. You can tune the enemies to the map design while still giving the player all the available towers so it isn’t something that even requires a campaign.

I don't even get what you want here.

Just because rounds are fixed, doesn't mean your defence against them will be. Round 63 ceramic rushes hit very differently on a map like X-Factor than they do on Logs. That is literally the point of the maps being separated into difficulty categories.
Not to mention they are designed in such a way that they have tend to have unique features.

The level design on this game far exceeds a lot of other TDs.

[Keith Patterson]

Originally posted by Evilsod:

Originally posted by L0ki:

So wait, every single level has exactly the same enemies? Lol wat? That seems lazy as hell and like this game will get boring and repetitive unbelievably quickly. Good td games tune the enemies to the level design.

Nice hot take you got there.

TD games with a campaign style mode that gradually introduces new towers are required to tune each level to the towers that are available.
Open ended, infinitely scaling TD games like Gemcraft get to do whatever they want (more or less), because grind.
TD games like this one are static so you can plan your defences with everything available up front. There's a reason most people dislike Apopalypse, because suddenly getting a swarm of things you aren't in a position to counter yet is quite annoying.

Apopalypse is fun for more advanced players when you know what to do, besides, even if Apopalypse has slightly different bloon types coming at you each round, if you know what you're doing, it's really fun, you get a lot of money in the late rounds that you don't even know what to do with.

[battlezoby]

Originally posted by L0ki:

Totally random enemies is an even worse, even lazier implementation so I’m not surprised people don’t like that.

Technically, "totally random" isn't entirely random in most games, it just mixes stuff up more, but doesn't do stuff like send bosses early. It generally means holding onto some of your cash, waiting for the mobs to start, and then reacting to them as things go, so you're not running the same pattern every time you do a map.

Secondly, it's generally not lazy, not including it is lazy because it's almost always (in Tower Defenses I've seen [or even collaborated on]) because isn't an EXTRA feature like CHIMPS or whatever that you can play in addition to the normal mode.

But BTD6 has one of the greatest selection of towers in Tower Defense without FPS features, so it's not as badly needed here. But it would be nice to have.

In Elemental Tower Defense (including the totally-free original version in Starcraft II) it also randomized your resources, so you had figure out what build in response to what's on the screen.

In BTD5 and BTD6 by comparison, you can often plan everything before you start, maybe just watching for your cash-level and activated abilities.) In games with any random element, it's more interactive process where you pay more attention to what's happening on the screen, and it's a clearly a feature they could add if they wanted to.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/578350/Element_TD/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1018830/Element_TD_2__Tower_Defense/#:~:text=Element%20TD%202%20-%20Tower%20Defense%20on%20Steam&text=Element%20TD%202%20sees%20you,who%20has%20mastered%20the%20elements.

[Chael P Sonnen]

Originally posted by L0ki:

Originally posted by Evilsod:

Nice hot take you got there.

TD games with a campaign style mode that gradually introduces new towers are required to tune each level to the towers that are available.
Open ended, infinitely scaling TD games like Gemcraft get to do whatever they want (more or less), because grind.
TD games like this one are static so you can plan your defences with everything available up front. There's a reason most people dislike Apopalypse, because suddenly getting a swarm of things you aren't in a position to counter yet is quite annoying.

Totally random enemies is an even worse, even lazier implementation so I’m not surprised people don’t like that. Losing purely to RNG isn’t great design either. You can tune the enemies to the map design while still giving the player all the available towers so it isn’t something that even requires a campaign.

You don't like it static, but also don't like random waves.... So, you have no idea what you want... There are races, boss events, odysseys, and the option to play CoOp where you truly have no control over what's placed and have to rely on your teammates knowing what to do. You haven't even scraped the surface... Not only that, you have no achievements at all on this game. You don't even play. You're a troll, and not even a good one.

[L0ki]

Originally posted by Uncle Chael:

Originally posted by L0ki:

Totally random enemies is an even worse, even lazier implementation so I’m not surprised people don’t like that. Losing purely to RNG isn’t great design either. You can tune the enemies to the map design while still giving the player all the available towers so it isn’t something that even requires a campaign.

You don't like it static, but also don't like random waves.... So, you have no idea what you want... There are races, boss events, odysseys, and the option to play CoOp where you truly have no control over what's placed and have to rely on your teammates knowing what to do. You haven't even scraped the surface... Not only that, you have no achievements at all on this game. You don't even play. You're a troll, and not even a good one.

I play on mobile. I like the fact you can’t wrap your head around any other possibilty than the same for every map or random. Most tower defense games are neither.

Battlezoby makes a fair point about procgen rounds being an extra feature which honestly doesn’t seem so bad as an added feature but inherently lacks balance as a main game mode.

[Chael P Sonnen]

Originally posted by L0ki:

Originally posted by Uncle Chael:

You don't like it static, but also don't like random waves.... So, you have no idea what you want... There are races, boss events, odysseys, and the option to play CoOp where you truly have no control over what's placed and have to rely on your teammates knowing what to do. You haven't even scraped the surface... Not only that, you have no achievements at all on this game. You don't even play. You're a troll, and not even a good one.

I play on mobile. I like the fact you can’t wrap your head around any other possibilty than the same for every map or random. Most tower defense games are neither.

Battlezoby makes a fair point about procgen rounds being an extra feature which honestly doesn’t seem so bad as an added feature but inherently lacks balance as a main game mode.

Mobile syncs with steam. I play both. If it's not random, then it's still a static/controlled wave (you know what could/should be there and prepare exactly the way we already do). You're not offering any solutions without also realizing it would ruin balance. The game is as easy/hard as you want it to be. You could always develop your own TD game and you'll very quickly realize how well-made this actually is. Like I said before, there are bosses, races, odysseys, CoOp, and wildly different tower compositions that you can explore. The advanced/expert maps are hard enough to throw a wrench into your strats. I can't wrap my head around anyone that gripes over a game that's existed this long and has plenty of readily available resources to see exactly what you're about to buy. It sounds like you're not having fun. I don't think this game is for you if that's the case. No harm, no foul.

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by L0ki:

Originally posted by Uncle Chael:

You don't like it static, but also don't like random waves.... So, you have no idea what you want... There are races, boss events, odysseys, and the option to play CoOp where you truly have no control over what's placed and have to rely on your teammates knowing what to do. You haven't even scraped the surface... Not only that, you have no achievements at all on this game. You don't even play. You're a troll, and not even a good one.

I play on mobile. I like the fact you can’t wrap your head around any other possibilty than the same for every map or random. Most tower defense games are neither.

Battlezoby makes a fair point about procgen rounds being an extra feature which honestly doesn’t seem so bad as an added feature but inherently lacks balance as a main game mode.

Games that tailor waves to maps are required to do so because they're normally a campaign style game and the new map will, without exception, benefit greatly from the newly unlocked tower.
"Oh this new map has lots of swarm style mobs that your single target towers get overwhelmed with? Lucky for you we just gave/developed an AoE splash damage tower to deal with just those mobs, best use lots of them if you hope to win!"

It's completely static, the only difference is you need to learn what the waves are first. Functionally it's no different to BTD6. You can plan everything in advance. First time you play it, it's still random because you've no idea what's coming or how to deal with it. It's why a common post on these forums is asking how to deal with "Those black blimps".

[TaterTot]

Uhhhhh Bloons has always been this way... Long before most other TD games were made.
Bloons are the same but each wave gets more and more.

Any video game in todays world can be called repetitive.... People need to come up with a new reason to hate games they find boring... Just calling something repetitive means nothing since every game is built on repetitive tasks now.