WTB game but why now pay2win -> Monkey Money? :-(

[Haui]

want to buy this game but they add pay2win element called "Monkey Money"
I DO NOT BUY THIS GAME TILL THIS IS REMOVED!!!!

[x0Z3ro0x]

Csimbi님이 먼저 게시:

I think you don't understand the concept of pay2win.
pay2win means, you have to pay to win - meaning you can't win or unlock stuff without spending real-world money.

Highly incorrect. While similar in the fact they both require money, that is where their similarities end. What you are thinking of is paywalls. Forcing users to pay to continue the game. Pay 2 win is the ability to spend money and win. Just as it sounds. Pay 2 win does NOT require you to spend money. Paywall on the other hand makes the game so hard, that users are forced to spend real money in order to advance.

This game is pay 2 win, not a paywall concept.

Zowieanna Zanthia™님이 먼저 게시:

I would play this game for like 1 minute and could not progress unless I actually paid real money fact, OR I would have to wait 24 hours to play again for another minute or so till I could not progess at all. I did this for well over a week, because I did enjoy the game, BUt I was not going to get sucked into this pay to win scheme.

Same thing here. You're aren't playing a game that is pay 2 win you are playing a game with paywalls forcing the users to spend money or never progress. Even then it is still very possible that the developers have pay 2 win items on top of the paywall. Making for a true BS game. So yeah makes sense they removed it from steam listings.

Csimbi님이 먼저 게시:

That is something I'd disagree with.

That's more than fine, you can disagree all day. You will still be wrong. It's not up for discussion. The definitions are just that, definitions. Definitions of the word and what you think doesn't change that. Facts are facts, gender is gender, these things don't care what you think. Pay 2 win is the act of paying to remove all challenge from the game, resulting in a win. Pay 2 win.

This comes in many forms most common in FPS where you can pay for advanced gear and mop the floor with your competition. Also present in BTD 5 and 6 in which double cash mode, healthy bananas, etc remove all challenge from the game allowing wins all day long.

Pay 2 win.

Csimbi님이 먼저 게시:

In BTD6, no real-world money is required at all to enjoy every single feature.
None, zilch.
That said, you can't label it as pay2win.

What? No wrong again. If you need to spend real world money to play the game or unlock features the game is called paid to play / DLC and can also lead to pay 2 win giving users OP items for money. If you have to spend real money to make it any further in the game that's called a paywall.

Forcing the user to pay in order to continue to enjoy the game. Paywall.

Csimbi님이 먼저 게시:

But labeling it as pay2win is just plain wrong because it's not the win that you get in exchange for your real world money: it's just momentary benefits that helps you progress faster.

We will label it pay 2 win, because that is exactly what it is. I can pay for double cash mode, which doubles all cash, and that alone removes all challenge from the game. Allowing a win on any difficulty with no effort. You can literally spam golden super monkeys to your hearts desire. Yet you or someone else can be 20x better than me and it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter one bit because I get hundreds of thousands in cash and can spam on tower I please.

That is pay 2 win whether you think so or not.

With respect your definitions do need updated. These are words like any other with definitions like any other. You can't change those out just because you feel like it. That's not how words and their definitions work.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/paywall

[kwil]

x0Z3ro0x님이 먼저 게시:

-snip-

The urban dictionary game is one with no winners.
Pay to win is typically a term reserved for competitive games, thus the word "advantage" is used in the definition. But since it's something people made up recently and everyone has adapted it to whatever their cause is, it turns into a buzzword with little meaning.
Paywall is used to describe content that is locked behind payment. Unless you're referring to the double money, which is a feature I don't in any way support for "advantage" purposes, there are no paywalls in this game. All MM is easy to get your hands on at a more than fair pace that should barely be an inconvenience. For a game that 90% of people buy at $1, it's hard to imagine how people can want more.

[匿名 (Tokumei)]

x0Z3ro0x님이 먼저 게시:

Anonymous님이 먼저 게시:

Double money isn't even op in this game like it was in BTD5. It only works on bloon pops and initial money and farms don't get doubled.

Wrong. Farms do get doubled. I've played every BTD game including their spin off monkey city 1 & 2. I know what I am talking about when I say BTD 5 & 6 are pay to win.

Well you are wrong in saying BTD6 farms are doubled when they are not.

[x0Z3ro0x]

kwhero님이 먼저 게시:

x0Z3ro0x님이 먼저 게시:

-snip-

The urban dictionary game is one with no winners.

Much of what you say either is a direct restatement of what I just said (like the paywall definition), or you go off topic on things others have said and not myself. Like the monkey money, which you can find me stating users crying about buying MM is because they suck at the game. If you are buying MM you are wasting your money, it's easy to farm. Time is all that takes.

As for you wanting to dismiss the definitions of words simply because it's in an urban dictionary vs websters is moot. The word does have a definition and that definition is accepted throughout the digital world. The only time it isn't accepted, is in times like this when someone wants to change it to their own meaning.

Pay 2 win, is the ability to pay real cash and remove the challenge from the game and / or, gain an advantage over others that nullifies their skill. This is not just for competitive games. But if you really want to split hairs and say that, then BTD became a competitive game the second they introduced leader-boards as well as competing with friends. The reality is, pay 2 win exists in any game where money is exchanged to an item, ability, or feature that alters the game in such a way as to unbalance it. Having hundreds of thousands and filling a map with golden super monkeys isn't balanced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play <---- Scroll Down to their Pay 2 Win section. It too will say the same as the other source I linked. It's very clear what Pay 2 win means. While it may be considered slang due to the digital age and what it has brought, it still has a definition that isn't going to change simply because you want it to.

[kwil]

x0Z3ro0x님이 먼저 게시:

kwhero님이 먼저 게시:

The urban dictionary game is one with no winners.

Read what I said, or why waste replying. Much of what you say either is a direct restatement of what I just said (like the paywall definition), or you go off topic on things others have said and not myself. Like the monkey money, which you can find me stating users crying about buying MM is because they suck at the game. If you are buying MM you are wasting your money, it's easy to farm. Time is all that takes.

As for you wanting to dismiss the definitions of words simply because it's in an urban dictionary vs websters is moot. The word does have a definition and that definition is accepted throughout the digital world. The only time it isn't accepted, is in times like this when someone wants to change it to their own meaning.

Pay 2 win, is the ability to pay real cash and remove the challenge from the game and / or, gain an advantage over others that nullifies their skill. This is not just for competitive games. But if you really want to split hairs and say that, then BTD became a competitive game the second they introduced leader-boards as well as competing with friends. The reality is, pay 2 win exists in any game where money is exchanged to an item, ability, or feature that alters the game in such a way as to unbalance it. Having hundreds of thousands and filling a map with golden super monkeys isn't balanced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play <---- Scroll Down to their Pay 2 Win section. It too will say the same as the other source I linked. It's very clear what Pay 2 win means. While it may be considered slang due to the digital age and what it has brought, it still has a definition that isn't going to change simply because you want it to.

Obviously, you can stretch it to use here, and the point is that when you use the term so loosely on everything with anything you can pay for, it becomes a buzzword with little meaning. I've had a similar discussion with the definition of MMO and the heavy debate around the word "massively" should mean in that definition. Language is what you make of it, and when "definitions" are new, they go through quite a bit of changes before everyone can come to a consensus on a meaning.

But, more importantly, in game purchases are the reason you get the game for so cheap. And offering the game for cheaper lets more players into the co-op pool so that it doesn't become stagnant with longtime players all playing the same way. It offers a sense of progression for the MM, and sets up a more balanced system for future updates. It also discourages pay to win tactics by adding an additional barrier to anyone who wants to just buy all their MK and gives more value to those who invest their effort in the game.

Pay to win or not, if you can't invest that little bit of effort to unlock everything when it's this easy, you won't have any sympathy from me.

[iOnlyBeast69]

I paid $5 for the game and $0 for microtransactions. Just learn how to play efficiently and grind. This game has longevity, you don't get everything right away, but if you want to pay, you can

[Csimbi]

Urban dictionary, lol
You should not believe more than half the crap you find on the internet.
If there's a dictionary I trust, it's the Oxford one.
And I don't think the Oxford dictionary lists this because the term has been invented on the internet and it's used loosely.
Look up the word 'win' in the dictionary, you will find that, add "pay to" and there you go.
You pay to win - and this game does not require payment to win.

[CoopaTroopa]

Csimbi님이 먼저 게시:

Urban dictionary, lol
You should not believe more than half the crap you find on the internet.
If there's a dictionary I trust, it's the Oxford one.
And I don't think the Oxford dictionary lists this because the term has been invented on the internet and it's used loosely.
Look up the word 'win' in the dictionary, you will find that, add "pay to" and there you go.
You pay to win - and this game does not require payment to win.

I can purchase lootboxes in this game for insta monkeys and place few high level towers and leave game idle to get achievments. I dont know if that qualifies as “paying to win” but i do win the level i play and earn monkey money+achievment for doing so

Furthermore, while no direct payment is available to buy a badge for a map, it is possible to pay to win a map with little effort if i so desire to, which i would think is an indirect way to buy the badge that i desire

[Dakaniva]

CoopaTroopa님이 먼저 게시:

not really bad purchase when on sale for $1

be aware though the game has had increasingly absurd practices regarding monkey money

first release adora for 5000 monkey money instead of 2500 with all other heroes

and add monkey money price lock for upgrades in monkey knowledge

i am guessing it will only be worse as time goes on. wont be buying next game if cost as i do not support the path Ninja Kiwi is going on at this point in time

5,000 monkey wasnt too hard to get though.

[CoopaTroopa]

Cerise Sucrée님이 먼저 게시:

CoopaTroopa님이 먼저 게시:

not really bad purchase when on sale for $1

be aware though the game has had increasingly absurd practices regarding monkey money

first release adora for 5000 monkey money instead of 2500 with all other heroes

and add monkey money price lock for upgrades in monkey knowledge

i am guessing it will only be worse as time goes on. wont be buying next game if cost as i do not support the path Ninja Kiwi is going on at this point in time

5,000 monkey wasnt too hard to get though.

The point is that the cost of a hero doubled in price, while ways to earn monkey money are no faster than before without payment

While you have no challenge to earn monkey money in game, that doesnt represent the thousands of others who play the game.

[Dakaniva]

CoopaTroopa님이 먼저 게시:

Cerise Sucrée님이 먼저 게시:

5,000 monkey wasnt too hard to get though.

The point is that the cost of a hero doubled in price, while ways to earn monkey money are no faster than before without payment

While you have no challenge to earn monkey money in game, that doesnt represent the thousands of others who play the game.

To be honest I dont think adora is worth 5,000 monkey money. I see where your coming from, once you beat most of the "beatable" levels. Then monkey money starts to get scarce. From there your only good sources are the daily challenges or buying monkey money. Even with monkey money, leveling up is a hassle as well.

[Csimbi]

Cerise Sucrée님이 먼저 게시:

To be honest I dont think adora is worth 5,000 monkey money.

I agree.

Cerise Sucrée님이 먼저 게시:

I see where your coming from, once you beat most of the "beatable" levels. Then monkey money starts to get scarce. From there your only good sources are the daily challenges or buying monkey money.

All wrong.
- All levels are beatable. All you need is skills. Can't do CHIMPS? Play impossible -> same yield.
- You can replay levels and farm as much monkey money as you want.

Cerise Sucrée님이 먼저 게시:

Even with monkey money, leveling up is a hassle as well.

Correct. So how does money help to win?
I said it many posts ago: even if you spend real world money to make things easier, you still have to go through all the grinding. You can't buy your win.

[Dakaniva]

Csimbi님이 먼저 게시:

Cerise Sucrée님이 먼저 게시:

To be honest I dont think adora is worth 5,000 monkey money.

I agree.

Cerise Sucrée님이 먼저 게시:

I see where your coming from, once you beat most of the "beatable" levels. Then monkey money starts to get scarce. From there your only good sources are the daily challenges or buying monkey money.

All wrong.
- All levels are beatable. All you need is skills. Can't do CHIMPS? Play impossible -> same yield.
- You can replay levels and farm as much monkey money as you want.

Cerise Sucrée님이 먼저 게시:

Even with monkey money, leveling up is a hassle as well.

Correct. So how does money help to win?
I said it many posts ago: even if you spend real world money to make things easier, you still have to go through all the grinding. You can't buy your win.

I didn't directly say all levels were unbeatable why do you think I added the " " for?

[Lunacy]

Cerise Sucrée님이 먼저 게시:

Death From Above님이 먼저 게시:

4X compared to what? This is just absolute nonsense.

Lol yeah

Normally you'd save up for new heroes
but if you want to buy optimal monkey knowledge, you can't, at least not until you grind away thousands of extra monkey cash (that anyone playing before the latest update got for free) some of them cost 1000 cash for 1 point, which requires a few thousand more just to get to the ones that cost 1000.
And if you do grind for heroes instead, you leave out some really good monkey knowledge.
If you want the free dart monkey and +200 starting cash, it's 13 levels and 2500 monkey cash minimum, that's as much as a non-Adora hero, and starting off, Monkey cash is very slow (only a few hundred per hour, as opposed to late game grind for thousands)
And that's only for one talent tree with minimum points spent.
And if you primarily want to play co-op, you get EVEN less.

I'd say best course of action is finding video guides to beat levels with Monkey Knowledge disabled, so you can get easier cash, but then that kind of defeats the purpose of playing the game in the first place.

[Paraglider]

Is this game pay 2 win? Absoulutly Not. I have no idea where you got your information but you really need to fact check things

Are there microtransactions? Unfortantly yes. They are there, and its absurd that they are in a paid game in the first place. This decision would be understandable if this was a free game. But this game costs about 10 bucks, thats a bit pricey for a product. There really is no excuse for there to be microtransactions in paid game, they already have a source of income. I want to stress that the microtransactions DO NOT RUIN THE GAMEPLAY. However, I think it is safe to say that it weighs the experience down for me at least knowing that they are there

I don't agree with the choice of NinjaKiwi, especially since it just gives monkey money way too many uses. But you really need to not make stuff like this unless you know 100% it is in the game