Features, packed or stripped?

[zè libereso]

Paradox has a bad habit of spending years of DLCing their customers to death to finally make a solid game. Next iteration, they strip out all the features they learned worked and then resell them back to us on repeat.

Does it feel like the content is where it was with some DLC of the first game or is it like vanilla of the first?

[Awesomes007]

Neither. This software is as designed. They have repeatedly said this. Regardless of what they try to sell you in the future, they have already sold you clunky, janky junk.

[General T.Montana Tropic Thunder]

Originally posted by zè libereso:

Features, packed or stripped?

IMHO it`s CS:1 put in a shredder and then someone took the remains and stuck them together with wallpaper glue.

[Cosmic Sea]

Its a shame that its lacking so many great features that came with DLCs and some mods for CS1

[pletus]

Yeah. It's pretty bad... Made even worse without workshop support.
Simulation is riddled with bugs, so it just throws money at you to compensate.
Traffic is worse than CS1 for a number of reasons, like cars going through every parking lot just because they can, lack of road tools.

Originally posted by ℠👻Dork Shnedderdon👻℠:

Originally posted by zè libereso:

Features, packed or stripped?

IMHO it`s CS:1 put in a shredder and then someone took the remains and stuck them together with wallpaper glue.

Yeah, feels pretty apt.
You get the feeling there's a gem somewhere in this mess, but seems like the dev's aren't very passionate about finding it.

Sorry, I know if I was dev on this game it might hurt to hear that, just how it feels. Someone over there really needs to grab the wheel.

[Stealthy]

Originally posted by zè libereso:

Paradox has a bad habit of spending years of DLCing their customers to death to finally make a solid game. Next iteration, they strip out all the features they learned worked and then resell them back to us on repeat.

Does it feel like the content is where it was with some DLC of the first game or is it like vanilla of the first?

It is a remake. So not comparable to first version. Some things are there, most not. Many work in very different manner. Pile of mods baked in. Lot of DLC coming as that is the way PDX sells their games to keep them active for years to come.

[archonsod]

Game is fundamentally different, so the CS1 style DLC won't really work with it. Though it's questionable how much content the DLC actually added to CS1 given the last few were largely cookie cutter 'add a new zone type' expansions that broadly worked exactly the same whether it was dealing with industry or parks.

[Shahadem]

CS2 is basically CS1 at its launch.

You can see that the game was clearly designed around selling DLCs.

Also the upkeep costs for a lot of services are absolutely absurd.

[General T.Montana Tropic Thunder]

Will be interesting to see if they work on the game mechanics.
If they put dlc on top of a broken game, that would create player outcry.

Perhaps players can someday download mods from within the game ?
Modders could perhaps fix the game a bit.

[Rdizz]

Its CS1 stripped bare and re shaded.

[mackster]

If you were to make a product, any product, and sell it - eventually that product would be worthless, because anyone who wanted it would have it.

Now, what if you made a product and came up with optional upgrades down the line? All of a sudden, you have a sustainable business.

If you compare vanilla CS1 (without any DLC) to CS2, CS2 would win hands down. Having a future of DLCs means the devs stay engaged (like they did for CS1) throughout and dont just leave it as is. Constantly improving the game as we move along the years. This is a win for the company and a win for its customer base.

Instead all the posts eventually fall into vitriol at the devs and at the company (and yes, death threats occasionally, what a world we now live). We cannot have one without the other, the company keeps the profit coming in that pays the staff to make the games. The devs may have to rush some things out and fix later, thats the compromise of business. Otherwise, targets are not met, share prices fall and layoffs happen, we dont get the games we want. Its that simple really.

[Stealthy]

Originally posted by mackster:

If you were to make a product, any product, and sell it - eventually that product would be worthless, because anyone who wanted it would have it.

Now, what if you made a product and came up with optional upgrades down the line? All of a sudden, you have a sustainable business.

If you compare vanilla CS1 (without any DLC) to CS2, CS2 would win hands down. Having a future of DLCs means the devs stay engaged (like they did for CS1) throughout and dont just leave it as is. Constantly improving the game as we move along the years. This is a win for the company and a win for its customer base.

Instead all the posts eventually fall into vitriol at the devs and at the company (and yes, death threats occasionally, what a world we now live). We cannot have one without the other, the company keeps the profit coming in that pays the staff to make the games. The devs may have to rush some things out and fix later, thats the compromise of business. Otherwise, targets are not met, share prices fall and layoffs happen, we dont get the games we want. Its that simple really.

Well said. But entitlement is strong and people expected a lot more than was ever promised failing to understand the business model you described and the fact that this game is a rewrite, not a sequel in a typical sense.

[Rdizz]

Originally posted by Stealthy:

Originally posted by mackster:

If you were to make a product, any product, and sell it - eventually that product would be worthless, because anyone who wanted it would have it.

Now, what if you made a product and came up with optional upgrades down the line? All of a sudden, you have a sustainable business.

If you compare vanilla CS1 (without any DLC) to CS2, CS2 would win hands down. Having a future of DLCs means the devs stay engaged (like they did for CS1) throughout and dont just leave it as is. Constantly improving the game as we move along the years. This is a win for the company and a win for its customer base.

Instead all the posts eventually fall into vitriol at the devs and at the company (and yes, death threats occasionally, what a world we now live). We cannot have one without the other, the company keeps the profit coming in that pays the staff to make the games. The devs may have to rush some things out and fix later, thats the compromise of business. Otherwise, targets are not met, share prices fall and layoffs happen, we dont get the games we want. Its that simple really.

Well said. But entitlement is strong and people expected a lot more than was ever promised failing to understand the business model you described and the fact that this game is a rewrite, not a sequel in a typical sense.

That is all opinion. IMO CS1 Offers way more vanilla without mods or DLC than CS2 does. There are a lot more ploppables and you can create a larger city. There is way more variance in buildings and more color als has disasters that actually do something. I mean Vanilla CS1 just has way more than CS2, Currently.

My expectation was that CS2 was going to release slightly ahead or even on par with CS1 but it did not and will take a very long time to catch up. And people really need to stop using that word entitlement, it is not entitlement when someone spends their money on a product especially basing that expense on the way the product was advertised. Its more expectation vs reality.

Will CS2 be the better game than CS1 over time... For sure on that I have no doubts but right now its not close.

I also do not believe people expected a lot more than was ever promised a quick browse of the steam store really negates that entire comment.

Nowhere under that entire description of the game does it say

"coming soon" or "to be added later" or anything of the like. As a full release game id wager a majority of the people were led to believe that would have shipped day 1. And lets not even talk about the minimum specs listed for this game....

[Stealthy]

Originally posted by Rdizz:

That is all opinion. IMO CS1 Offers way more vanilla without mods or DLC than CS2 does. There are a lot more ploppables and you can create a larger city. There is way more variance in buildings and more color als has disasters that actually do something. I mean Vanilla CS1 just has way more than CS2, Currently.

My expectation was that CS2 was going to release slightly ahead or even on par with CS1 but it did not and will take a very long time to catch up. And people really need to stop using that word entitlement, it is not entitlement when someone spends their money on a product especially basing that expense on the way the product was advertised. Its more expectation vs reality.

You have to compare both games at launch state, they are done to same specs in that sense. Everything you say about C:S1 doesn't exist on base game only, without any DLC. For example disasters are a separate DLC, natursal disasters. European building style was patched in couple of months after launch, now it is already included. Variety isn't great, but it is a lot better when you use all available lot sizes. And it's still on par with C:S1 launch state content. C:S2 also has a lot more ploppables than C:S1 had.

You simply can't compare 8 years of patches and DLC to starting point. After 8 years, this game will have a lot more than C:S1 ever had.

Your expectations were clouded by the entitlement "this will be more than C:S1" when nothing said it will be. Not even their marketing which clearly stated that this is a rewrite in the way they wanted to do it originally but time and tech wasn't there. And since this is a PDX game, you KNEW that there will be a loads of DLC coming in that will add features and assets to the game. That is their operation model and that is what happened with C:S1. There was no indication that this wouldn't be the case with C:S2. Not a single one.

Sure, performance is what it is and bugs are plentiful. But again, same applied to C:S1 when it launched, no matter how much people try to deny that. Just look at the C:S1 patch notes and schedule. Not that it makes this launch right, but it does put it into real context. Which is: It could have gone better, but it was never to be a bug free launch.

[Rdizz]

Originally posted by Stealthy:

Originally posted by Rdizz:

That is all opinion. IMO CS1 Offers way more vanilla without mods or DLC than CS2 does. There are a lot more ploppables and you can create a larger city. There is way more variance in buildings and more color als has disasters that actually do something. I mean Vanilla CS1 just has way more than CS2, Currently.

My expectation was that CS2 was going to release slightly ahead or even on par with CS1 but it did not and will take a very long time to catch up. And people really need to stop using that word entitlement, it is not entitlement when someone spends their money on a product especially basing that expense on the way the product was advertised. Its more expectation vs reality.

You have to compare both games at launch state, they are done to same specs in that sense. Everything you say about C:S1 doesn't exist on base game only, without any DLC. For example disasters are a separate DLC, natursal disasters. European building style was patched in couple of months after launch, now it is already included. Variety isn't great, but it is a lot better when you use all available lot sizes. And it's still on par with C:S1 launch state content. C:S2 also has a lot more ploppables than C:S1 had.

You simply can't compare 8 years of patches and DLC to starting point. After 8 years, this game will have a lot more than C:S1 ever had.

Your expectations were clouded by the entitlement "this will be more than C:S1" when nothing said it will be. Not even their marketing which clearly stated that this is a rewrite in the way they wanted to do it originally but time and tech wasn't there. And since this is a PDX game, you KNEW that there will be a loads of DLC coming in that will add features and assets to the game. That is their operation model and that is what happened with C:S1. There was no indication that this wouldn't be the case with C:S2. Not a single one.

Sure, performance is what it is and bugs are plentiful. But again, same applied to C:S1 when it launched, no matter how much people try to deny that. Just look at the C:S1 patch notes and schedule. Not that it makes this launch right, but it does put it into real context. Which is: It could have gone better, but it was never to be a bug free launch.

I really think you are missing the OPs entire point of this post completely.

My expectations were clouded by everything stated on the steam store page and nothing more. Stop using that "buzz" word.

[Stealthy]

Originally posted by Rdizz:

[
I really think you are missing the OPs entire point of this post completely.

No, he is asking very biased question which is based on delusion. However, answer is given. This is a rewrite which has aspects from old game, from mods, and new stuff. And yes, it is a base game for DLCs to come. That has always been clear.