Why do people have a problem with paradox mods?

[lathrix army]

They that they would never charge any money for mods and they can be brought over multiple platforms if you play on multiple, plus you can easily access it through steam, Xbox, epic, Xbox PC I dont see the issue with not doing steam workshop because it also centralizes the mods to one place so mod makers dont need to post and update their mod multiple times this seem like only a bonus

[Dale Kent]

Bethesda said the same thing with Skyrim.

[Anmaril]

No. It is Paradox. They have not shown us that they value their customer's time and money. This game is basically dead to me. Paradox can keep it's own mod platform and game, I'll never buy this. They plan DLC already, publish the game in an unplayable state AND kill mod support on Steam? Yeah no.

[specteX]

Good luck bruh...they gonna limit which mods/assets get green Flag which dont

[Avalon Scorpion]

Originally posted by specteX:

Good luck bruh...they gonna limit which mods/assets get green Flag which dont

so its gone be better than steam workshop. no more outdate mods or mods that harm your pc. nice

[Anmaril]

Originally posted by Avalon Scorpion:

Originally posted by specteX:

Good luck bruh...they gonna limit which mods/assets get green Flag which dont

so its gone be better than steam workshop. no more outdate mods or mods that harm your pc. nice

Harm your PC... what? THIS game will harm your PC by the performance review we have seen so far. Mod yourself and come back once you did publish mods for Paradox games for years.

[Avalon Scorpion]

Originally posted by Anmaril:

Originally posted by Avalon Scorpion:

so its gone be better than steam workshop. no more outdate mods or mods that harm your pc. nice

Harm your PC... what? THIS game will harm your PC by the performance review we have seen so far. Mod yourself and come back once you did publish mods for Paradox games for years.

yes, mods with bugs in them like they have on steam workshop atm for cs1

[Anmaril]

Mod a Paradox game. Come back with actual knowledge about the process and the issues with their business strategy regarding mods.

[Dale Kent]

Originally posted by lathrix army:

They that they would never charge any money for mods and they can be brought over multiple platforms if you play on multiple, plus you can easily access it through steam, Xbox, epic, Xbox PC I dont see the issue with not doing steam workshop because it also centralizes the mods to one place so mod makers dont need to post and update their mod multiple times this seem like only a bonus

Once Paradox answers these questions (which they were banning people on their forums for asking, but appears they may have stopped now), then maybe we could be happy about being forced onto one mod platform:

1. In the future, when Paradox Mods is no longer supportable by Paradox's bottom line, will it be closed down and everyone lose access to mods? There are so many examples of where a game was tied to a publisher service which was then closed down when it was no longer profitable, thus destroying the community instantly. Paradox did this as recently as last week when they wrote-down the loss from Lamplighters, fired most of the studio (so no more updates), and released the studio from their control (after ensuring the studio's IP was solely owned by Paradox).

2. What is to stop Paradox from blocking/removing mods that don't suit them? For instance, mods that conflict with DLC? Mods from players who suddenly aren't looked on favourably by Paradox? If Paradox publish a DLC focused on bridges, and someone then makes free bridge mods, will they be removed?

3. Some people take long periods off from a game, which can span more than a year. In the Paradox EULA it states that any account not accessed for more than 365 days can be deleted on the whim of Paradox. If a modder uploads some mods, then takes a break from the game for a year or more and their account is deleted by Paradox, then what happens to their mods?

3a. Further to 3, if the modder then comes back after the break, are they able to gain access back to their mods?

4. I am a Game dev myself, and last year I integrated steam workshop AND modio into the game I was working on. The in-game mod browser works seamlessly to present players mods from both platforms, plus also allows modders to upload with a single click. The entire process is transparent, and managed in the background by the game to ensure mods are available on all platforms. If the player is on steam, they default to workshop first, then modio. All other platforms default to modio. Now, all other Paradox games on Paradox Mods ALSO supports steam workshop. Why could you not provide the best solution and support both mod platforms for CS2 similar to what a number of games already are doing to support steam, non-steam, console installs? It's obviously not a problem since every other Paradox game supports both platforms, so why suddenly will you not for CS2? (Note: console support is NOT the answer here, it's a crock as current games already support integrated mod platforms like I explained).

5. If a mod community springs up in another location, say Nexis, or Simtropolis, or other website, are mods still able to be manually installed from other platforms into the game, or will that be locked off as well?

6. Earlier this year, Paradox changed their EULA to include terms to be able to monetise UGC (user generated content) without permission and without compensation to the creator. In May's shareholder deep dive, executives openly stated how successful 'content creator packs' were for revenue, and were pursuing other methods of monetising UGC. So, in the future, if (when) Paradox decides to monetise Paradox Mods and start charging for mods (through direct download or subscription), will modders be able to opt-out and maintain free mods, or will you force it on them?

6a. Further to 6, if (when) mods are monetised, will you then open up support for steam workshop or other mod platforms so a free mod community can still exist?

[Anmaril]

Originally posted by Dale Kent:

6. Earlier this year, Paradox changed their EULA to include terms to be able to monetise UGC (user generated content) without permission and without compensation to the creator. In May's shareholder deep dive, executives openly stated how successful 'content creator packs' were for revenue, and were pursuing other methods of monetising UGC. So, in the future, if (when) Paradox decides to monetise Paradox Mods and start charging for mods (through direct download or subscription), will modders be able to opt-out and maintain free mods, or will you force it on them?

6a. Further to 6, if (when) mods are monetised, will you then open up support for steam workshop or other mod platforms so a free mod community can still exist?

Thank you for this long response, I was not aware of that change. But that might be the reason for this move.

[Apop85]

I'm ok with the idea of the paradox mods. As they said there will be some good features we miss in steam workshop - like instant visibility if the mod still works or is compatible with the current game version. Also the use of mod packs would be much easier than on steam as you just can subscribe to a mod pack to download all containing mods inclusive the dependecies. I also like the idea, that mods will be synced over the cloud save so i don't have to care about installing the mods on multiple machines and keeping track of them manually.

But how it will be in reality i'll see in 3 days... but the ideas they have sounds good.

About there will be no mods because paradox mods is bad.... no that's not how modders get motivated. Like skyrim is POS looking how you have to download and optimize each of your mods manually and there are still a ton of mods around. Most of them not in the bethesta mod shop or how ever they call it. If paradox mods is not good enough they'll just switch over to another distributor like github or what ever is available.

[arthurlewis]

Originally posted by Apop85:

I'm ok with the idea of the paradox mods. As they said there will be some good features we miss in steam workshop - like instant visibility if the mod still works or is compatible with the current game version. Also the use of mod packs would be much easier than on steam as you just can subscribe to a mod pack to download all containing mods inclusive the dependecies. I also like the idea, that mods will be synced over the cloud save so i don't have to care about installing the mods on multiple machines and keeping track of them manually.

But how it will be in reality i'll see in 3 days... but the ideas they have sounds good.

About there will be no mods because paradox mods is bad.... no that's not how modders get motivated. Like skyrim is POS looking how you have to download and optimize each of your mods manually and there are still a ton of mods around. Most of them not in the bethesta mod shop or how ever they call it. If paradox mods is not good enough they'll just switch over to another distributor like github or what ever is available.

I'd really that in the workshop - "instant visibility if the mod still works or is compatible with the current game version."

[Haristess]

I think the overall point here, is that, they have never approached its playerbase/fanbase, and asked questions such as whether they would want content on their website forums, or prefer Steam or both.
for a company to say they listen, or that they care about their community, they havent reached out and asked what we want.
Infact, they know what we want, but they choose to go in the opposite direction, anyway.

I think if they would have asked, everyone would have said Steam, for those of us on pc, and paradox mods, for console, and therefore, both should be used, but not forced.

Looking at the game, and how in which its been seriously dumbed down as a gaming experience, and to notice that they took the paradox mods route, its obvious too me, that they care more about the console market than the pc market, for purely a financial standpoint.
I could also argue that they want all the power as a company to say yay, or nay regarding mods and assets, which may align too their future DLC, inorder for them to milk their product into the ground.
Behind the scenes, you may not hear about it, but im sure there will be alot of modders being told they cannot upload said mods onto their platform, for no obvious reason at all, except the fact they want to release DLC in relation to said mod.
for example, if someone modelled a football pitch/stadium, and wished to upload it for the community, they could say no, because they want to release a dlc for stadiums.
Its all about power and control.
My concern is if this becomes true, the modding community could die out.

[kilésengati]

Originally posted by Dale Kent:

Originally posted by lathrix army:

They that they would never charge any money for mods and they can be brought over multiple platforms if you play on multiple, plus you can easily access it through steam, Xbox, epic, Xbox PC I dont see the issue with not doing steam workshop because it also centralizes the mods to one place so mod makers dont need to post and update their mod multiple times this seem like only a bonus

Once Paradox answers these questions (which they were banning people on their forums for asking, but appears they may have stopped now), then maybe we could be happy about being forced onto one mod platform:

1. In the future, when Paradox Mods is no longer supportable by Paradox's bottom line, will it be closed down and everyone lose access to mods? There are so many examples of where a game was tied to a publisher service which was then closed down when it was no longer profitable, thus destroying the community instantly. Paradox did this as recently as last week when they wrote-down the loss from Lamplighters, fired most of the studio (so no more updates), and released the studio from their control (after ensuring the studio's IP was solely owned by Paradox).

2. What is to stop Paradox from blocking/removing mods that don't suit them? For instance, mods that conflict with DLC? Mods from players who suddenly aren't looked on favourably by Paradox? If Paradox publish a DLC focused on bridges, and someone then makes free bridge mods, will they be removed?

3. Some people take long periods off from a game, which can span more than a year. In the Paradox EULA it states that any account not accessed for more than 365 days can be deleted on the whim of Paradox. If a modder uploads some mods, then takes a break from the game for a year or more and their account is deleted by Paradox, then what happens to their mods?

3a. Further to 3, if the modder then comes back after the break, are they able to gain access back to their mods?

4. I am a Game dev myself, and last year I integrated steam workshop AND modio into the game I was working on. The in-game mod browser works seamlessly to present players mods from both platforms, plus also allows modders to upload with a single click. The entire process is transparent, and managed in the background by the game to ensure mods are available on all platforms. If the player is on steam, they default to workshop first, then modio. All other platforms default to modio. Now, all other Paradox games on Paradox Mods ALSO supports steam workshop. Why could you not provide the best solution and support both mod platforms for CS2 similar to what a number of games already are doing to support steam, non-steam, console installs? It's obviously not a problem since every other Paradox game supports both platforms, so why suddenly will you not for CS2? (Note: console support is NOT the answer here, it's a crock as current games already support integrated mod platforms like I explained).

5. If a mod community springs up in another location, say Nexis, or Simtropolis, or other website, are mods still able to be manually installed from other platforms into the game, or will that be locked off as well?

6. Earlier this year, Paradox changed their EULA to include terms to be able to monetise UGC (user generated content) without permission and without compensation to the creator. In May's shareholder deep dive, executives openly stated how successful 'content creator packs' were for revenue, and were pursuing other methods of monetising UGC. So, in the future, if (when) Paradox decides to monetise Paradox Mods and start charging for mods (through direct download or subscription), will modders be able to opt-out and maintain free mods, or will you force it on them?

6a. Further to 6, if (when) mods are monetised, will you then open up support for steam workshop or other mod platforms so a free mod community can still exist?

Good read and very valid concerns. There appear to be multiple issues regarding effective ownership over UGC and cultural conservation that PDX responds to in the most greedy and irresponsible manner. Didn't knew that about the deletion.
Seems like they effectively proprietise UGC to their domain and spit it out like a chewing gum once they are done with it. Makes me wonder if it would still be possible to use certain free culture and free and open-source content for mods in CSL. Going by this, everything copyleft, even copyleft blobs, are basically a no-go for CSL modding now.

I also really don't see what keeps them from implementing a UGC repo manager into the game, but being close-fisted about UGC. Other games have repo managers, too.

I think we really need a viable FOSS alternative to CSL and SC (and many other games as well), to escape corporate overlordship and their bullshittery, for gaming culture to truly prosper from itself.

[Mack]

no-one trusts paradox not to eventually make it paid mods or make it paid ACCESS.

You just know there CEO and investors absolutely want to charge people $10 or $15 or $20 a month to get access to mods.

[Apples]

Originally posted by Mack:

no-one trusts paradox not to eventually make it paid mods or make it paid ACCESS.

You just know there CEO and investors absolutely want to charge people $10 or $15 or $20 a month to get access to mods.

If they want to benefit creators, they should keep doing content creator packs and do it that way.