Fix to the homeless fix💢please!

[Major Kudos™]

The homeless fix added a new bug that hides in plain sight. Will take a while before you notice the damage. Here is the Dope on it.....

It seems to have been done intentionally where the September 4th patch added "MovingInHouseholdCount which is the household looking for property to move into, and added a maximum to stop new households from spawning when many are already looking for homes."

The Moved In and Moved away rates basically just cancel each other out eternally since the homeless "fix".

However......... This big old abomination is still growing slowly and almost at 3 million.....
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3337936554
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3338400254
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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3255033574
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3258333143
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3255043718
Pure Vanilla, No Dev Tools or Mods used on this city........yet.
Hardware;
This city; i9 14900K RTX 4080 Super
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Prior to the Beach DLC this was the best we could do. So we started from scratch again!
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3145410688
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[sethtriggs]

I am confident this mod is not going to fix my issue. (By the way MK if you use the same Dropbox link I gave before you can see my city at 800,000 population, since it's a round number I'll stop there till next patch). All things considered the city is doing well.

But now I wonder if the rapid, unchecked growth I was having was more and more homeless people and that's why the mod isn't fixing this. I still believe the transit loading bug is also preventing homeless people from leaving since they don't tend to have cars. (Incidentally because your city doesn't have transit maybe that's part of the issue?)

[TheKillerChicken]

When it comes to transit, I noticed the buses are the only ones that actually work with a ~70% success rate. The metro seems to work at first, but randomly car-bunches at one of my stations after about 2 hours real-time usage, thus rendering it useless. The passenger rail road seems to only work ~20% of the time and ends up not accepting passengers after a few real-time hours. The cargo train does not work as it should, or even at all, but the cargo ship works just fine (mostly), the cargo air planes simply do not work, the passenger ships work ~40% of the time, and the passenger air plane algorithm is very random, eg, it sometimes brings passengers in, or most of the time they are empty planes. I have all my mass-transportation prices between 2c and 10c as well. This game is still a buggy mess, but at least it is somewhat playable now, unlike launch day. There is a lot that still needs to be done here, and as I am a avid mass-transportation user, I hope that the transportation will be a priority soon.

[Major Kudos™]

Цитата допису sethtriggs:

Incidentally because your city doesn't have transit maybe that's part of the issue

I don't think any of the homeless had a problem leaving the city when the mod was used, we can see from this data view over 1.4 million of them left and took the jobs with them.

Apparently they just walked out on the dozens of outside connected roads, or so i assume. The only homeless i could find in that version of the city are in parks now. None are on the streets.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3296829106
However the Vanilla version still has homeless littering every single street everywhere, none of them leave the city but I think that was the whole reason for the mod was it not? It certainly evacuated the bodies and the jobs they had entirely.

Also important to consider is the population of the current Vanilla city and the modded version at same timeline are roughly the same number which leads me to believe neither version is counting homeless at all.

However, only the modded version recorded the number that left as 1.4 million which is close to how many the city lost in total population since Eco2.

Again, this still suggests to me CS2 does not include homeless as part of the total unless they live in parks.

[Haystack]

CS is in the tank. Hard code adjustments adapted for CS2 are making both CS2 and CS1 Worse, NOT Better, and crippling both versions. No point in trying to "play the game". No point in saving a game. Only thing salvageable is bare simulation and even that is quickly loosing stability.

[sethtriggs]

Цитата допису Haystack:

CS is in the tank. Hard code adjustments adapted for CS2 are making both CS2 and CS1 Worse, NOT Better, and crippling both versions. No point in trying to "play the game". No point in saving a game. Only thing salvageable is bare simulation and even that is quickly loosing stability.

But the thing is, this wasn't even a bug that was killing either city I've made. Even with this and other bugs, I've been having fun getting a city to 800,000 - and it's actually working. This was unthinkable with CS1 for me (mainly because of the vehicle spawn limits that were hardcoded in). And there's so much I can do in this game that's really fun and engaging. But they do have to get through a lot of bug triage. I think it's possible for them to get there but it's going to take time.

It's perfectly fine to take a break or even come back to it years later if you want. Heck if they finish the asset editor that'll solve a LOT of issues related to capacity.

For example I look at the insane university capacity numbers MK has in his mega-save and I think the current sprawling campuses won't work. We need people to make modular university assets. I can even try to do so if I can figure out an easy way to implement my architectural ideas.

[Major Kudos™]

Цитата допису TheKillerChicken:

When it comes to transit, I noticed the buses are the only ones that actually work with a ~70% success rate. The metro seems to work at first, but randomly car-bunches at one of my stations after about 2 hours real-time usage, thus rendering it useless. The passenger rail road seems to only work ~20% of the time and ends up not accepting passengers after a few real-time hours. The cargo train does not work as it should, or even at all, but the cargo ship works just fine (mostly), the cargo air planes simply do not work, the passenger ships work ~40% of the time, and the passenger air plane algorithm is very random, eg, it sometimes brings passengers in, or most of the time they are empty planes. I have all my mass-transportation prices between 2c and 10c as well. This game is still a buggy mess, but at least it is somewhat playable now, unlike launch day. There is a lot that still needs to be done here, and as I am a avid mass-transportation user, I hope that the transportation will be a priority soon.

This is the perfect summary of a few of the broken or disjointed functions in only one category of this dumpster fire some call a game.

Game? We generally expect to play games, but not this one, this one plays us.

[TheKillerChicken]

Well, I just had a catastrophic bug hit my city where the water touched the land 1 mm too far and caused the entire lake to hammer my city with waves of about 1000 fps, thus completely destroying my city. CO clearly needs to address the water physics issues as well.

[Major Kudos™]

Цитата допису TheKillerChicken:

Well, I just had a catastrophic bug hit my city where the water touched the land 1 mm too far and caused the entire lake to hammer my city with waves of about 1000 fps, thus completely destroying my city. CO clearly needs to address the water physics issues as well.

OMG! Thank a god for autosave!

Just another line on the long list of unfinished (or even started) business in this adventure in babysitting.

[TheKillerChicken]

Цитата допису Major Kudos™:

Цитата допису TheKillerChicken:

Well, I just had a catastrophic bug hit my city where the water touched the land 1 mm too far and caused the entire lake to hammer my city with waves of about 1000 fps, thus completely destroying my city. CO clearly needs to address the water physics issues as well.

OMG! Thank a god for autosave!

Just another line on the long list of unfinished (or even started) business in this adventure in babysitting.

Even when Cities Skylines I first launched, it was not even marginally close to the hell this game is causing at random...

[Haystack]

Цитата допису TheKillerChicken:

Цитата допису Major Kudos™:

OMG! Thank a god for autosave!

Just another line on the long list of unfinished (or even started) business in this adventure in babysitting.

Even when Cities Skylines I first launched, it was not even marginally close to the hell this game is causing at random...

That's what comes from trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. :)

[Major Kudos™]

Update;
14 months time has passed since we wiped out all forms of commerce by applying the 30% tax fix for 5/5 bug in my old city of 2.85 million. The tax fix dropped business count from a high of 37,000 to the low point of 7,000 some 14 months ago,

We need to see about 7,200 more businesses return and 650K more population to achieve to the starting point. Its getting there very slowly.

Also we tested Bye Bye Homeless on same save in a different account (see previous updates). This vanilla current account remains 100% vanilla and free of Dev mode.

The city seems on a steady but very slow upward growth curve in spite of being overrun with homeless on every last street and park.

Bye Bye Homeless did nothing other than hide the street homeless from view (they are still there). The data from the other account shows there is still at least 1.4M of uncounted homeless on the vanilla save streets. Those homeless only show as "moved out" in the modded save and not in the actual population total of either save from what I can see. See my previous posts for views.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3298607454
I hope after Aug 5 CO gives us a way to deal with those uncounted homeless cluttering the streets and killing CPU's. Likely a big cause of the CTD's everyone is reporting since Eco3 patch

Its like having 1.4 million no income people draining the CPU and city resources with no return.

[purrcat33a]

Цитата допису Major Kudos™:

Update;
14 months time has past since we wiped out all forms of commerce by applying the 30% tax fix for 5/5 bug in my old city of 2.85 million. Businesses dropped from a high of 37,000 to the low point of 7,000 some 14 months ago,

We need to see about 7,000 more businesses return and 600K more population to get back to the starting point. Its getting there very slowly.

Also we tested Bye Bye Homeless on same save in a different account (see previous updates). This vanilla current account remains 100% vanilla and free of Dev mode.

The city seems on a steady but very slow upward growth curve in spite of being overrun with homeless on every last street and park.

Bye Bye Homeless did nothing other than hide the street homeless from view (they are still there). The data from the other account shows there is still at least 1.4M of uncounted homeless on the vanilla save streets. Those homeless only show as "moved out" in the modded save and not in the actual population total of either save from what I can see. See my previous posts for views.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3298607454
I hope after Aug 5 CO gives us a way to deal with those uncounted homeless cluttering the streets and killing CPU's. Likely a big cause of the CTD's everyone is reporting since Eco3 patch

Its like having 1.4 million no income people draining the CPU and city resources with no return.

That's the thing that frustrated me when homeless started to become an issue. I have no problem with homeless (in the game), it's life. What I do want to see is a representative number of homeless aligned to the city size and general economics. Maybe in mainland US, it's common to have 20, 30, whatever, percent of the population homeless and wanton anarchy but things still ticking along? I just don't see that being acceptable in most democracies in Europe.

Even if the homeless mod hides the homeless behind the curtain, it does make the game play slightly more palatable and realistic , to my mind at least.

[purrcat33a]

Цитата допису Major Kudos™:

Цитата допису purrcat33a:

Even if the homeless mod hides the homeless behind the curtain, it does make the game play slightly more palatable and realistic , to my mind at least.

Agreed:
To your last point; when comparing my 2.8 million pop Vanilla timeline and the same Modded timeline my results are somewhat different.
- Strictly from my pov there is zero difference in performance (as one might expect) other than both were much slower than pre Eco2. About 28 seconds per in game minute VS 45 seconds per in game minute now.
- Although the modded save is not appreciably slower than the vanilla save the modded save is lagging in about 10,000 business return and 300,000 in population (similar timelines compared).

So far, at this "unplayable to no one but me" population level the mod does not improve the game in any way other than simply hiding the street homeless. Given the losses to business and population are likely downward scaleable the mod (as most seem to do) is dragging performance.

I actually like to see what is actually on the streets at any time so the mod has no benefit to me. I just want CO to do something with that sector of the population. Anything PLEASE.

Hey, thanks for another insightful POV! Its making me dig deeper.

Thanks - I'm still here, just not having as much free time ATM to play the game. Although frustrating on so many levels, I'm still playing it, so that must count for something!

[Major Kudos™]

Цитата допису purrcat33a:

Цитата допису Major Kudos™:

Agreed:
To your last point; when comparing my 2.8 million pop Vanilla timeline and the same Modded timeline my results are somewhat different.
- Strictly from my pov there is zero difference in performance (as one might expect) other than both were much slower than pre Eco2. About 28 seconds per in game minute VS 45 seconds per in game minute now.
- Although the modded save is not appreciably slower than the vanilla save the modded save is lagging in about 10,000 business return and 300,000 in population (similar timelines compared).

So far, at this "unplayable to no one but me" population level the mod does not improve the game in any way other than simply hiding the street homeless. Given the losses to business and population are likely downward scaleable the mod (as most seem to do) is dragging performance.

I actually like to see what is actually on the streets at any time so the mod has no benefit to me. I just want CO to do something with that sector of the population. Anything PLEASE.

Hey, thanks for another insightful POV! Its making me dig deeper.

Thanks - I'm still here, just not having as much free time ATM to play the game. Although frustrating on so many levels, I'm still playing it, so that must count for something!

And I'm still surviving after nuking my city with that 5/5 tax fix, although it is creeping back in to the commercial buildings.

Next thing to try is "pruning" them out to see if they return or not. No sign of it returning in office yet.

Homeless? One word; Hilarious! every street-corner is just riddled with those sorry CimSouls!

I pray every day for the Norse Gods to return from Asgard and vanquish their zombie bodies.
Meanwhile I cherish the "Good Ol Days"
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3258333143

[Haystack]

Цитата допису Major Kudos™:

I pray every day for the Norse Gods to return from Asgard and vanquish their zombie bodies.

I'd probably be way better off just checking in with Putey :) Then again .... Maybe Not. I hear he's a little edgy these days.