No mac or linux version? wtf

[kzed]

come on guys

[Maarten]

Początkowo opublikowane przez philiposborne:

As of May 2023 MacOS accounts for 2.39% and Linux 1.47% of the Steam user base, which combined (3.86%) is of course still a tiny but growing community. I would be interested to know the stats specifically for players of CS and whether that is different than for Steam as a whole.

That is the million dollar question. Out of that 2.39% (Linux users can just run the Windows version almost natively because they share the same x86-64 architecture, using a Wine-based product of some sort), how many are actually buying games like Cities Skylines?

I would imagine that it is strictly a business decision here, cost vs reward. They know exactly the number of copies they have sold of CS1, and have crunched the numbers if the same amount of people would buy CS2 vs the cost of developing on the Apple Silicon platform.

One thing we must not forget: Development for CS2 started a LONG time ago, from what I have heard they started in 2018, and at that time..... the only Apple architecture was based on x86-64. Apple introduced their M1 chip in November 2020 - based on the Arm64 architecture, which would have been the first time Colossal Order would have been able to get their hands on hardware as well, and by that point two to three years of development would have been done.

Now, it IS certainly possible to re-compile the game for Arm64, and it is possible to run x86-64 apps in a form of emulation. The first option would be the best, but comes at a cost for Colossal Order who now has to maintain two architectures. One for PC, PS5 and Xbox, and one for Apple. The second option is possible, but comes with a significant performance hit.

[ArmedGhost-]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lulu:

Początkowo opublikowane przez LethalDiabetic-:

Yeah. It outpefroms 3000 series cards in video editing, not gaming and you still have have to pay almost $4k for get that performance, when a $1.5K PC laptop has the same performance. I just find it ridiculous the prices people justify paying to get decent performance on a Macbook.

Don't see the pros of dropping $4k on a Macbook when a person could spend $1.4k on this:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-rog-zephyrus-14-fhd-144hz-gaming-laptop-amd-ryzen-7-16gb-ddr4-memory-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3060-512gb-pcie-ssd-moonlight-white/6494633.p?skuId=6494633

or drop $200 more to get this:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-rog-zephyrus-14-wqxga-120hz-gaming-laptop-amd-ryzen-9-16gb-ddr5-memory-amd-radeon-rx-6700s-1tb-pcie-4-0-ssd/6494638.p?skuId=6494638

and still be able to do literally anything a $4k M2 Ultra Macbook can. The performance/price ratio on Macbook is ridiculous. People justify paying for overpriced performance just to say they own a Macbook.

again BG3 a game thats dropping in 2 months literally native mac runs better on a M1 Ultra than a 3070, most games with Native Mac support out class a 3070 on the M1 Ultra.
Also the M2 Ultra dropped like 3 days ago there isnt even native tests yet.
The max chips arent very good in general. Listen bro I agree i would rather just buy windows gaming laptop but spreading misinformation because of your windows ego is stupid.
Also Linux 99% of the time is just a better gaming experience because of steam, Steam + Steam OS and or linux is designed to predownload shaders which Direct X cannot do. But it can be done through gamescope its why games like elden ring and ♥♥♥♥ run 10000% better on linux. denying facts is silly. also precache even exists on steam windows but can only be done via OpenGL/Vulkan games again Direct X holding a better experience back like usual. There is also a reason why emulators run better via vulkan, and have general better linux experiences too.

I'm a windows gamer I like it because it has a much more simpler interface and its just generally easier to use when you dont want to use any brain power. But I'm not gonna go on some false rant being like MAC isnt for gaming (though i admit its more for business tasks but they are at least trying) Linux isnt for gaming. especially when there is insane evidence out there that Linux literally just runs a good chunk of games better. Look at the rog ally stutter fest RE4 remake, compared to steamdeck i would rather than stable 45 FPS the deck can run RE4 Remake at than D3D12 Windows experience stuttering my experience at 60.

Anyway the real reason for non native linux ports is mostly likely caused by classic Epic James as tim thinks linux is a cheat and hates it in general. Hell Cities: Skylines on epic is Windows only It doesnt even have native mac or Linux on epic.
some companies are now using proton a crutch to bail on a linux version knowing its only going to be out on one platform now, No reason to add linux when even Epic doesnt support it :) :) :) (which is really stupid)
Hell most games have straight up Killed their linux branch because of EOS Crossplay, so not only do you get worse p2p connection with laggier and stutter feast experiences, but they completely axe native linux builds (IE Rocket League/ Payday 2 etc) Hell Epic has a history of killing Linux and mac builds for even single player games like Hatoful boyfriend. I will say there is a reason why Larian studios straight up refuses to acknowledge epic games.

I've moved on from this post. The people arguing my stance have been missing my point to where to get stability in gaming on a Mac, buyers have to spend almost $4K compared to the laptops I posted at the $1.5k range to get relatively the same performance or even building a PC for 1.5-2k. I keep reading here the M2 Ultra outperforms 3000 series cards as the performance is a huge difference and worth spending over $2k more for the M2 Ultra performance. People want to spend the money on the M2 Ultra, great, people want to build their own PC great.

I built a PC for about $1,800 that has 24 GB of RAM, a 3080Ti and a Ryzen 9 processor, 5 TB SSD and 5 TB HDD, built the PC to how I want it, get over 100 FPS on any game on max settings. Couldn't justify spending double that price on a M2 ultra Macbook (in which can't even be upgraded over time). That's just me, if people want to spend the money on an M2 Ultra they can. IDC.

[Dooum]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dooum:

Why does ppl always cry about linux and mac , do like everyone , play on windows

7 Linux users only are mad here , keep going it's free points

[𝙁𝙤𝙧𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙣]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dooum:

Why does ppl always cry about linux and mac , do like everyone , play on windows

You DON'T even need to be on Windows to play this Windows game, people need to chill out and think for a bit.

[buttnut]

get a PC like for real. stop being such a hipster. literally the worst kind of people.

[paulusASol]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Maarten:

The blame for not having a Mac version lies one hundred percent with Apple in this instance. They chose to change architecture to the Apple Silicon M.1/M.2 chips, and that is quite different than the x86-64 architecture. For the record, both the PS/5 and XBox are built on the x86-64 architecture, which means the vast majority of code is identical between the PC, PS/5 and XBox versions. (PS/5 OS is FreeBSD based, and XBox OS is a heavily modified version of Windows).

Apple chose to go in a completely different direction with their hardware architcture, and it makes it a lot harder and costlier for a game developer to compile the game for a architecture that works completely different. So yeah, Apple chose their own path. And they are SOLELY to blame as to why game developers are abandoning MacOS. Apple basically gave gamers a fat middle finger.

The 90's want their hand-optimized, assembly-written programs back. In the 90's, you could get a small performance gain by writing hand-optimized assembler that would outperform what the compiler spits out, but (a) compilers have become a lot better at optimizing software and (b) programmers have become worse at hand-optimizing software, because no one does it any more and (c) code written in a high-level language is much more maintainable.

No one writes serious amount of code in assembly any more, it just is no longer worth the effort. In a game, I expect 0 lines of code that are specific to the CPU architecture. You just tell your compiler to spit out code for whatever architecture you are targeting.

(Yes, there are some things, such as cache size that might be worth to consider during optimization. But these things also differ widely between different x86_64-CPUs.)

Graphics APIs make a difference, as the engine does not fully abstract away from it, e.g. when you are using custom shaders. Different APIs and filesystem structures may make a difference, as the engine might not fully abstract away from it. Different CPU architectures do not.

[Finaldest]

Quote from CO Avanya.
"Unfortunately, we don't have a definite answer for whether or not Linux will be supported for Cities: Skylines II. What we do know at this time is that we support the already announced platforms and that we are not willing to close any doors on others. We will share more in the future when we determine whether Linux support will happen post-release or if it will regrettably not happen for this game. We greatly appreciate your patience on this matter."
End Quote

I really want to see native support but would have been happy to get official proton support as a compromise. I guess we will have to wait and hope they announce support post release.

[Thagarr]

Certainly not the answer I was hoping for, but at least it is not a "No!"

[BadassRockett]

Początkowo opublikowane przez JP DFW:

Some of us prefer Mac and Apple products and choose our own path and do it different and not follow the windows fold.

https://media.tenor.com/w1ZlmmZaUd0AAAAM/sheep-shaun-the-sheep.gif

[Joker | Slava Ukraini]

No native linux port, no buy...

[Simon]

Początkowo opublikowane przez BadassRockett:

https://media.tenor.com/w1ZlmmZaUd0AAAAM/sheep-shaun-the-sheep.gif

Początkowo opublikowane przez buttnut:

get a PC like for real. stop being such a hipster. literally the worst kind of people.

Początkowo opublikowane przez vjollila:

lol imagine game on mac

Juvenile comments. At least Maarten can write intelligent comments on the matter without resorting to platform-bashing. I agree with much of what he said. Apple have kind of shot themselves in the foot--and they never did care about gaming, but the M-series laptops seem to be successful nonetheless. I should know, because my 16" Intel MacBook's value has plummeted since nobody wants the Intel models anymore. It can still play plenty of Windows games just fine, including (presumably) the upcoming CS2, should I still have it then.

[Scerion]

The problem is that Linux users will whine about anything. Even if the company released a version for Ubuntu, you'd get people whining they need it for Gentoo V1.022938BETA-6.01 with an ARM processor and 2Kb RAM...

[[object Object]]

Of course Linux users can run the game with Proton if there's no Linux support on release, but native builds will always perform better

[[object Object]]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Scerion:

The problem is that Linux users will whine about anything. Even if the company released a version for Ubuntu, you'd get people whining they need it for Gentoo V1.022938BETA-6.01 with an ARM processor and 2Kb RAM...

You don't need to release different versions of a game for different distros

[[object Object]]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dany W. 194:

Everyone who uses mac or Linux knows that gaming is something that you can't do as well on Windows. They will for sure make a Linux and Mac version, it will just take a while to port over. And Paradox doesn't want to make any promises that might not happen so that will probably announce at or after launch.

idk man, half my steam library is native and the games run faster than on windows