Seraphim are the worst faction in Supcom: FA --- 50 Reasons Why ---

[ĐⱤ₳₲Ø₦₣ØӾ217]

I want to be proven wrong here. I want to be told that they don't suck as much as I've seen. I want to learn how to effectively play Seraphim but it apears that the weaknesses that they have far outweigh their advantages. So these are my 50 reasons why Seraphim don't see any love in online matches

#1 - They lack a LAB
#2 - No Ghetto Gunship (because of the lack of a lab)
#3 - Fobo is very powerful, but not cost effective
#4 - Engineers must rotate themselves (this adds up over time)
#5 - Horrible T3 Anti-Air
#6 - No T3 Gunship
#7 - No T3 Sonar
#8 - Chicken doesn't fire properly when trying to change targets
#9 - They lack unique air units, except for the T4 bomber
#10 - They only have one gunship and it is the worst of the T2 Gunships
#11 - Their amphibious tank is the worst of the bunch, which is not acceptable because they already have a horrible lack of units
#12 - No engineering station
#13 - T1 Navy is so ass it's not even worth building
#14 - T2 Navy is lack luster but isn't horrible like T1
#15 - Serious lack of Naval Units
#16 - No clear victory strategy
#17 - Bomber takes extremly long to construct, by that time the enemy should have shields out the ass. Especially Aeon.
#18 - Engineers are made out of paper
#19 - Unit names are too hard to say
#20 - Suth-anus sounds like smooth anus
#21 - No heavy T3 land unit to go head-to-head with other T3 land units
#22 - Othuum is very slow
#23 - No unique defensive structure: Harms, Ravager, etc
#24 - No one plays as them, therefore it's hard to watch and learn how to effectively play their faction
#25 - T3 bomber has no defensive capabilities whatsoever
#26 - Seraphim as a whole don't excel at any specific thing. They're just average
#27 - Unidentified Energy Being can be prevented by reclaiming the Ythotha at the time of death
#28 - Yolona Oss can be stopped completly by building a novax
#29 - Because of the chrome finish on the units, texture glitches and abnormalities are frequent
#30 - They're an evil faction for no reason but for being an evil faction
#31 - Stealth field can be spotted with no radar because it releases a light burst once completed
#32 - A massed army of Air Supperority Fighters make building the T4 bomber a waste of time and resources
#33 - No effective way to prevent ravager + fatboy creep
#34 - Seraphim sACU's seem to get stuck in T3 Pgens when massed in groups of 3
#35 - T2 Artillery bends and turns into the ground when aiming at far targets (glitch that can be fixed)
#36 - No T2 support land unit
#37 - Ineffective T2 torpedo bomber
#38 - Athanah costs 300 energy. This makes the Athanah a luxury unit when it shouldn't be. The lack of a heavily armored T3 land unit means the Athanah is required to extend the longevity of your othuums. At least make it cost 250 the value of two T2 pgens
#39 - no soothsayer or eye of riana
#40 - Seraphim struggle to keep up all the way to t3 navy
#41 - no experimental naval unit
#42 - no T2 support naval unit
#43 - don't excel on any individual map
#44 - struggle to keep up with the UEF and Cybran because of no cost effective build power
#45 - where they exceled tremendously, patches nerfed their advantages
#46 - Sniper Bots are useless. Serious lack of HP makes them die laughably fast against jesters and any low level plane
#47 - What can the Seraphim do, that other factions can't do better?
#48 - Seraphim can't sufficiently defend against a late game Cybran or a late game UEF player
#49 - No one brings up how harder it is for a Seraphim player to beat a Cybran player 1v1
#50 - Seraphim is the most underplayed faction in the game by a huge margin. double that of the aeon

I know it sounds like all I've done here is complain and complain about the weaknesses of the Seraphim, but every faction is balanced. Cybrans have poor defenses, but they make up for it with great aufensive units. UEF players have great defenses, but lack an experimental to punch a hole in your base. and finally the Aeon have specialized units that excel in individual areas.

The Seraphim can become a powerful and fearsome faction if it were tweaked a little here and there. I'm not asking for new units, just make the units that they have stronger. There is absolutly no logical reason for their only gunship to be the weakest of all t2 gunships.

If you have any advice and helpful tips on how to play them better, than by all means tell me.

[Starbug]

Nice.

[✩ Ellectroma ッ]

I've seen Sera rekt other factions in 1v1 on FAF, I use Sera and they are pretty good for me, but guess it is just matter of opinions.

[belatedcube1021]

ok we both have too much time. 1 you took the time to come up with 50 reasons against seraphim and 2 because I am answering.

ok so this is gonna have a lot of opinions like your post but... here we go!

1 their scout can cloak when not moving or shooting making an effective intel tool.
3 yes they are powerful can't deny it, and cost effective if used correctly
4 I have never seen that happen
6 this is why seraphim usually isn't used as air but they have other advantages
7 I think it is safe to say that an omni and lots of scouting can make up for it.
9 and 10 see answer to 6
11 they have the op and abused zooeys (foboes)
12 you only need them when you have an insane amount of mass
13 I think this applies more to aeon
14 the destroyer IS odd but they have an awesome cruiser
15 the T3 sub hunters are powerful
16 that was...
17 why is seraphim the main faction used when going 1st bomber?
18 what about the other factions?
19 that applies to pretty much all games with space aliens
21 combine othuums, mobile shields, and snipers I am pretty sure that would be tough to kill
23 you should be building units over sturctures anyway, and it applies to aeon too
25 neither does aeon AND the aa guns on cybran and uef strats are pathetic
26 um... the ilshavohs are amazing. they have high range and good dps
27 not too many know it and it can't always be done
28 yolona osses are barely built anyway
29 depends on computer and version of game
31 it happens with all factions
32 why build any air exps then?
33 it isn't only seraphim
34 why do you let it happen?
36 that is because the ilshavoh is amazing
39 uef doesn't have anything either AND they are expensive
40 depends on the player and strategy
41 cybran doesn't have any either
43 lies
44 engy stations aren't as efficient as engies
46 tell that to TotalTuna
47 that is almost completly opinion
48 this is about the engy stations isn't it?
49 see 40
50 do you have any stats to prove it, and why is it a reason to hate them?

[Sheppy]

#1 yes but they have seleen
#2 yes but they have the best t1 bomber
#3 eh, no, actually it has been nerfed hard on FAF
#4 i doubt you are on a high enough level to make this matter
#5 doesnt hit more or less than other antiairs, thought there has been a firerate change i know
#6 yeah... let's be serious how often did anybody use that before t3 mobile aa?
#7 never actually noticed, sucks if thats the case but well not gamedebreaking
#8 like just about any other unit ingame, chicken actually work pretty well infact
#9 but that one is kinda unique
#10 it's more or less the same as any other t2 gunship
#11 it pretty ok actually, some citation for this claim pls
#12 serious? because i hope not
#13 their t1 navy is 100% equal to cybran t1 navy
#14 T2 navy is pretty solid, also they got nobrainer t3 navy
#15 how so?
#16 fobospam (seriously what's a victory strat? percie spam?)
#17 shields are not effective vs expbomber
#18 i dont think they differ in hp actually
#19 yeeeah.. on the other hand for that you have the nicks
#20 -
#21 yes T3 Land is a weakness of sera
#22 not slower than other heavy t3
#23 like aeon, i, guess...
#24 ladderstats say otherwise
#25 i hope you dont want to imply with that that you think the AA of T3 bombers is worth anything
#26 t2 chicken, fobo, crusiers,nano, overcharge sacu...
#27 correct, now try to do that constantly
#28 i think they fixed that on FAF
#29 are they? never seen some...
#30 they are technically not evil
#31 you must have infinite attention on spare in games..
#32 actually, no look http://youtu.be/fcoQdzhuEUk?t=4m23s
#33 have never seen that -> cant be as good as you claim -> show replay or never happened
#34 k
#35 i guess thats fixed, since i'm not aware of it (or just very rare)
#36 as if chicken would need it
#37 oh yeah that things sucks, just remove it from the game already
#38 look my statement about T3 land
#39 because people use that all the time. not.
#40 ask a setons player but actually i think UEF and Sera are the main choices for navy
#41 because the Tempest is defentily the most built unit ever and aeon navy completely op
#42 yes........
#43 except all small maps with water and all big maps with wate and the rest
#44 lol! do you even unit db!?
#45 ya... because certain things were simply op
#46 nope they arent
#47 cheap style of gameplay
#48 nothing can defend against a lategame UEF player
#49 because it isnt?
#50 citation?

But i actually dont really like seraphim.

[ĐⱤ₳₲Ø₦₣ØӾ217]

Publicado originalmente por belatedcube1021:

ok we both have too much time. 1 you took the time to come up with 50 reasons against seraphim and 2 because I am answering.

ok so this is gonna have a lot of opinions like your post but... here we go!

1 their scout can cloak when not moving or shooting making an effective intel tool.
3 yes they are powerful can't deny it, and cost effective if used correctly
4 I have never seen that happen
6 this is why seraphim usually isn't used as air but they have other advantages
7 I think it is safe to say that an omni and lots of scouting can make up for it.
9 and 10 see answer to 6
11 they have the op and abused zooeys (foboes)
12 you only need them when you have an insane amount of mass
13 I think this applies more to aeon
14 the destroyer IS odd but they have an awesome cruiser
15 the T3 sub hunters are powerful
16 that was...
17 why is seraphim the main faction used when going 1st bomber?
18 what about the other factions?
19 that applies to pretty much all games with space aliens
21 combine othuums, mobile shields, and snipers I am pretty sure that would be tough to kill
23 you should be building units over sturctures anyway, and it applies to aeon too
25 neither does aeon AND the aa guns on cybran and uef strats are pathetic
26 um... the ilshavohs are amazing. they have high range and good dps
27 not too many know it and it can't always be done
28 yolona osses are barely built anyway
29 depends on computer and version of game
31 it happens with all factions
32 why build any air exps then?
33 it isn't only seraphim
34 why do you let it happen?
36 that is because the ilshavoh is amazing
39 uef doesn't have anything either AND they are expensive
40 depends on the player and strategy
41 cybran doesn't have any either
43 lies
44 engy stations aren't as efficient as engies
46 tell that to TotalTuna
47 that is almost completly opinion
48 this is about the engy stations isn't it?
49 see 40
50 do you have any stats to prove it, and why is it a reason to hate them?

Publicado originalmente por Sheppard:

#1 yes but they have seleen
#2 yes but they have the best t1 bomber
#3 eh, no, actually it has been nerfed hard on FAF
#4 i doubt you are on a high enough level to make this matter
#5 doesnt hit more or less than other antiairs, thought there has been a firerate change i know
#6 yeah... let's be serious how often did anybody use that before t3 mobile aa?
#7 never actually noticed, sucks if thats the case but well not gamedebreaking
#8 like just about any other unit ingame, chicken actually work pretty well infact
#9 but that one is kinda unique
#10 it's more or less the same as any other t2 gunship
#11 it pretty ok actually, some citation for this claim pls
#12 serious? because i hope not
#13 their t1 navy is 100% equal to cybran t1 navy
#14 T2 navy is pretty solid, also they got nobrainer t3 navy
#15 how so?
#16 fobospam (seriously what's a victory strat? percie spam?)
#17 shields are not effective vs expbomber
#18 i dont think they differ in hp actually
#19 yeeeah.. on the other hand for that you have the nicks
#20 -
#21 yes T3 Land is a weakness of sera
#22 not slower than other heavy t3
#23 like aeon, i, guess...
#24 ladderstats say otherwise
#25 i hope you dont want to imply with that that you think the AA of T3 bombers is worth anything
#26 t2 chicken, fobo, crusiers,nano, overcharge sacu...
#27 correct, now try to do that constantly
#28 i think they fixed that on FAF
#29 are they? never seen some...
#30 they are technically not evil
#31 you must have infinite attention on spare in games..
#32 actually, no look http://youtu.be/fcoQdzhuEUk?t=4m23s
#33 have never seen that -> cant be as good as you claim -> show replay or never happened
#34 k
#35 i guess thats fixed, since i'm not aware of it (or just very rare)
#36 as if chicken would need it
#37 oh yeah that things sucks, just remove it from the game already
#38 look my statement about T3 land
#39 because people use that all the time. not.
#40 ask a setons player but actually i think UEF and Sera are the main choices for navy
#41 because the Tempest is defentily the most built unit ever and aeon navy completely op
#42 yes........
#43 except all small maps with water and all big maps with wate and the rest
#44 lol! do you even unit db!?
#45 ya... because certain things were simply op
#46 nope they arent
#47 cheap style of gameplay
#48 nothing can defend against a lategame UEF player
#49 because it isnt?
#50 citation?

But i actually dont really like seraphim.

wow, i'm actually impressed. all of my points were refuted. I didn't think someone would actually try answering every single one of those 50 points. Thanks for the replys. I'm gonna give another faction a shot. Perhaps Aeon will fit my play style better

[Francis E. Dec]

I play Seraphim exclusively on FAF, and I can tell you their ACU is by far the most powerful unit in the game, bar literally nothing.

With the two nano regeneration upgrades and the T3 engineering upgrade, a Sera ACU can go full rambo against most experimentals and win, and will devastate a T3 army solo.

This is because the ACU gets 240 hp/sec regen with no veterancy and 75K health. The only way I have seen to effectively counter this is bomber spam, but you can use the resources you saved not building an army to build air to counter it.

Enjoy your crazy unstoppable alien Godzilla.

[ĐⱤ₳₲Ø₦₣ØӾ217]

Publicado originalmente por McGiggins:

I play Seraphim exclusively on FAF, and I can tell you their ACU is by far the most powerful unit in the game, bar literally nothing.

With the two nano regeneration upgrades and the T3 engineering upgrade, a Sera ACU can go full rambo against most experimentals and win, and will devastate a T3 army solo.

This is because the ACU gets 240 hp/sec regen with no veterancy and 75K health. The only way I have seen to effectively counter this is bomber spam, but you can use the resources you saved not building an army to build air to counter it.

Enjoy your crazy unstoppable alien Godzilla.

way to resurrect a dead post from ages ago, lol. I completly agree with you on the acu, i never said the Seraphim acu was bad, as I was only covering the weaknesses of the seraphim. Supporting the acu with two or more sacu's is practically a game ender in my experience, as a couple shots of overcharge from the coms with kill almost any experimental in a head-on assault.

[Carystus]

My opinion, Cybran are kick ass sea defenders and with the upgrades have the best and strongest shields for cost (finished running cost not build) but they lack a T3 land defence. that is where UEF come in, that T3 land gun is a seriously strong unit to contend with, they are easy land defenders. Aeon I was puzzled on a little at first but found they have a very solid T3 navy with their unique missile ship topped with a cheap T3 shield for land defence. They all have a very obvious strength and somewhat obvious weakness but I have to say Seraphim aren't really much special for a faction that took on all three standard factions in the campaign, maybe I haven't played enough but without the T4 bomber it doesn't seem to have a strength that rivals that of the other factions, unless that is the point, they are the balanced middle ground? But I don't see it balanced enough to be effective enough vs the other factions strengths. Though I mostly now play FAF and use balanced mods and Black Ops for more units and fairer game play, as all factions have T3 everything while still providing the factions with their unique strengths, just not to such an extreme.

[☢Commander Shadow☢]

LOL,you are just noob,you cant play with the faction of the seraphim because each faction has different strategy.Seraphim is one of the most powerful attack factions on the game.Their ainti air shoots 2 missiles and down a t3 aircraft ,on the other hand uef and cybran shoot 12 or 6 missiles do down one t3 aircraft.Second the seraphim battleship can create nukes and lauch them.Their t3 tanks are litteraly unstoppable angaist defences unless if you have like 5 or 8 t3 uef cannons to stop them.Their shields are more powerfull than the other factions(trust me thei shields are the most strong go skimish and see or oberve it on mutiplayer).BTW did you know that by having around 15 t2 submarines can litteraly kill the other navy within seconds of attaking them?(i destroyed 5 cubran battleships within 3 minutes with 14 subs).Their t3 fighters are the one of the best in the game it goes like Aeon>Seraphim>Cybran>UEF.The seraphim exps are crazy on firepower!They can destroy bases within seconds and they are hard to be taken down.Their artillery will clearly ♥♥♥♥ the enemy up.

[YawnZ]

T3 Sub Hunter

[Carystus]

Are people really still using the word noob? Anywho.. So I have played a number of games with Seraphim, 2 vs 2 every time so I have AI enemy and ally to observe. I play hard turtle, alternate and rush randomly for a better feel for them. Also using random factions but making sure one enemy and either me or ally are Seraphim while the others are each other faction on the same map to minimise change and unfairness which can change outcomes easily. And as stated before it does seem rather than a single strength they are simply more balanced. They have a few little special things such as stated by the noob killer nukes on battleship and strong tanks etc. Though not quite to the degree stated. And of course the costs are more for the added luxuries so you'll still need to be careful on maps with small amounts of mass as the cost I would say is their biggest weakness. Fight on a small poor income map and you will struggle with Seraphim until you can build T3 fabricators etc. It has been an interesting time playing them, and I have learned to like them though I still favour Cybran T4 and Aeon overall.

Final conclusion, with a map rich in resources the Seraphim would be a very hard enemy to beat. And have been, even though the AI insist in sending mass T1 units :P Though it is an interesting strategy for the number alone as there will be T3 in the mix so picking them out takes more time while your defences waste ammo on the T1 "meat sheild". Turtle was hardest even over rush as they will build unreal amounts of manual launch missles very close to your bases, lined up. That gets your addrenalin going when you find out when they are already built as your intel plane sours overhead to the bombardment!

[Sheppy]

Publicado originalmente por Chiron Perseus Theseus:

Fight on a small poor income map and you will struggle with Seraphim until you can build T3 fabricators etc.

Sentences like this is why people are still using the word "noob". :D

[Carystus]

Its a fact, try it, use a mass rich map vs anyone, then use a mass poor map vs anyone. The rich map you will find it easy from the start, on a poor map you will struggle for the cos therefore slow your build and advancement rate. Its very simple even for noob callers. But whatever helps you sleep at night..

[Carystus]

Now back to normality where humans are an evolved and learning species. I have found that Seraphim also yeild higher bonus % for adjoining buildings. Mass storage on extractors and energy storage on generators, though the discount on adding generators to sheild I haven't noticed to be any different really. But having played UEF then Seraphim I did notice especially the storage units on mass extractors did boast a better return. This played very well on a rich map I was playing on compared to the UEF, I was able to build up much faster doing more. Also needed less buildings and time to costruct the big weapons.
Normally I would struggle to build nukes having to balance very carefully to keep a solid build speed. I felt a more careless approach on the 2nd game due to having an overabundence of mass for the same area covered previously with UEF.
Another plus for Seraphim.

[belatedcube1021]

Publicado originalmente por Chiron Perseus Theseus:

I have found that Seraphim also yeild higher bonus % for adjoining buildings. Mass storage on extractors and energy storage on generators, though the discount on adding generators to sheild I haven't noticed to be any different really. But having played UEF then Seraphim I did notice especially the storage units on mass extractors did boast a better return.

um... I just checked on adjacency bonuses for steam fa and that is incorrect for mass storage on mexes and mass fabs. there is no difference in the amount of mass when comparing each faction's mexes and mass fabs.