any tips on not turtleing

[AEONdontsucknod**k]

ok so im one of those people who gre up playing the old c&c games and loved to build a super base with super economy and then destroy the enemy with airstrikes and artilary (v2 rockets) but now i play supreme comander i find it realy hard to get out of this habit (even on single player turtleing dont work to well) does anyone have any tips on either
a) methods of being a better turtle in supcom.
or
b)methods to get out of this bad habit
thanks in advance x

[Tydo]

Originally posted by AEONplaysasUEF:

b)methods to get out of this bad habit

PVP
/thread

Really. PVP. That will eventually cure that or send you running to another game.
Turtling means spending lots of mass, energy and buildtime on something that does not attack the enemy. And unfortunately all of the campaign strongly favours it.

[DirtySynk]

Explaining and giving you advice would be difficult. There is so much that would require covering and writing all that done would be very time consuming.

Go watch some of the Youtubers for Sup Com. They will often comment on the game and give detail advice. Gyle and Brinkofinsantity are 2 that I would suggest.

[brbrbr]

why "get out of habit" of you gaming ?
ESPECIALLY in game, built around That, ie Strategy.

[SGT.Muffin badger]

have one factory and loads of engineers assist it then boost it to t3 tech. after that push out higher tier stuff

[DankMiehms]

Turtling, at least in the campaign, is an incredible strategy. It's basically impossible for even a Hard AI to break a shield line supported by artillery and mixed point defense and AA. Aeon is especially good at it if you're able to get your economy built up strong enough, since the campaign is about the only time it's practical to build a paragon, which means you can start spamming experimentals and utterly wreck whatever you encounter.

[Tydo]

Originally posted by Miehm:

Turtling, at least in the campaign, is an incredible strategy.

In pvp, against a competent adversary, it is also an incredibly BAD strategy, which is why he wants to get out of it. You need some defenses, yes, but full turtling, no.

Turtling is easy (shield, aa, pd), but is just a surefire way to fall behind and in pvp the oppositon does not wait indefinitely for you trigger some scripted event, unlike the campaign where you can sit back and build all the t3 arty and experimentals you want before you decide it is time.

[DankMiehms]

Originally posted by Tydo:

Originally posted by Miehm:

Turtling, at least in the campaign, is an incredible strategy.

In pvp, against a competent adversary, it is also an incredibly BAD strategy, which is why he wants to get out of it. You need some defenses, yes, but full turtling, no.

Turtling is easy (shield, aa, pd), but is just a surefire way to fall behind and in pvp the oppositon does not wait indefinitely for you trigger some scripted event, unlike the campaign where you can sit back and build all the t3 arty and experimentals you want before you decide it is time.

He specifically says "even on single player turtleing don't work to well."

So, no, that's not the only reason he wants to get out of the habit. He tried turtling in campaign and somehow managed to not succeed at it. Now he wants to find a new strategy. I am simply pointing out that in the campaign, turtling is possibly the most effective strategy there is, and I make no claims on its utility in relation to online play.

[Tydo]

IDC! I want him to get his feet wet in pvp, in a manner of speaking.
Was not looking to argue with you, im very aware how necessary turtling is in the campaign, just used it as an excuse to reiterate my first post: pvp will cure you of turtling (in pvp).

And to vent some of my unending steam over how turtlecentric the campaign is, since it is pretty much scripted to act like a towerdefense game until you manage to build either enough maxrange dps or a juggernaut of units and flatten the enemy bases.
Hence the name of the skirmish rule "no game enders", because that is what arty&nuke does to campaign.

ANYWAY.
Campaign turtling is easy peasy, it just takes time.
Lots of overlapping t3 shielding (remember to upgrade if you are cybran), lots of t3 AA pretty much everywhere in your base, a few ground PD where you know they are coming. You dont even need a T3 missile defense or T2 missile defenses, except for last map where unprotected perimiter bases may get nuked. Park experimentals where you need something to both soak and deal a lot of ground damage.
It gets a bit hairy on last 2 maps on hard, due to the large waves of T3 bombers that will take down multiple shields, but it is nothing that even more shielding and more AA wont take care of.
Even that Sera exp bomber wont worry you in the end, except if it crashes very inconveniently on top of your acu.

Ok, there is an exception. Map 3, on hard. If you let them finish the bombers (4 or 5) you'd better have 50+ ASF per bomber ready to intercept those to guard yourself and the aeon temple.
Protip: build a bunch of navy & experimentals before triggering that phase, because your arty cant reach that far, then go over and knock them out before they get airborne.
Another tip: save before triggering an objective. You may find that you were woefully unprepared. Applies to the whole campaign.
Also spoiler for last map: navy counters turtle, so have counters ready for navy, just like in the regular supcom version of this map.

[AEONdontsucknod**k]

turtleing in the camapign is easy to the point where you can just dominate the game, i should have been a bit more specific when i said single player i ment skirmish mode. (sorry about my spelling and grammer, not a strong point)
oh thanks for the coments

[Tydo]

It is not that much different, just have to adapt more.

In terms of main base defense, the only reason to turtle is air and arty. Ground should not even get a single shot in.
That means, bomber and gunships, and eventually t3 arty.
Early on, a few T2 shields and a few t1 AA and 1-2 PD are enough, just to minimize your repair costs from bomber harassment. Dont get lazy though, soon you get more air.
You can delay going shieldcrazy until you know they start building t3 arty. Once they do though, you are just delaying the inevitable, as they keep building more of it - you have to eliminate theirs before it becomes too much.
The original supcom has a good lesson on that, in the aeon part. You can shield against 1 Duke, and for a while against 2, but with 3 you are soon knocked out. Numbers are different in SCFA, but the same applies - shielding has limits.

Frontline turtlebases (2 or more shields): "enough" AA, some ground PD (T2!) purely because it has better range than most units, maybe 1-2 dozen t2 arty if you are lategame and get waves of t3 ground approaching. Sniperbots if you feel like it.
When possible, park 1-2 ground exprimentals just outside of those frontlines, 2-3 if lategame. AI loves to primary target them. You can park inside if you get lots of air and no mobile t3 arty.

You can not in a meaningful way turtle against navy without modded shields. They just have too much range and dps and overwhelm almost any amount of t2 missile defenses.
Have to use the usual counters. Air/exp or a bigger/better navy.

[Tydo]

Left one thing out. Enemy air experimentals. No good turtle options there, even when you kill it, that is a big rock falling on your stuff.
Counter with fighters and your own air experimentals, it will take some micromanagement, it is not very afk friendly.

[brbrbr]

Originally posted by Miehm:

Originally posted by Tydo:

In pvp, against a competent adversary, it is also an incredibly BAD strategy, which is why he wants to get out of it. You need some defenses, yes, but full turtling, no.

Turtling is easy (shield, aa, pd), but is just a surefire way to fall behind and in pvp the oppositon does not wait indefinitely for you trigger some scripted event, unlike the campaign where you can sit back and build all the t3 arty and experimentals you want before you decide it is time.

He specifically says "even on single player turtleing don't work to well."

So, no, that's not the only reason he wants to get out of the habit. He tried turtling in campaign and somehow managed to not succeed at it. Now he wants to find a new strategy. I am simply pointing out that in the campaign, turtling is possibly the most effective strategy there is, and I make no claims on its utility in relation to online play.

if turtling not works for you - you simply doing it Wrong, perhaps. Turtle harder !! faster, stroger, higher ;)

[Thundercracker]

the wa i've been doing it is this:

i snag mass points, surround them with generators on the cardinal directions, and add t2 AA on the diagonals. if it's "frontline" i have a row of t2 point defences in the direction of the enemy. on the backside i have a row of t2 arty. i will probably add t3 AA to one side, if not the whole side, at least two (i play cybran).

then i get up a t2 or t3 (depending on my power exonomy) generator, and have that connected to a shield generator, set to max upgrade asap.

[Tydo]

Originally posted by Cy-Kill:

i snag mass points, surround them with generators on the cardinal directions, and add t2 AA on the diagonals.

Doing it inefficiently.
The powerdraw from extractors is minimal. You should surround them with mass storage instead, for a total of +50% mass income.
Much easier to just build more power elsewhere than waste that mass bonus.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by Tydo:

Originally posted by Cy-Kill:

i snag mass points, surround them with generators on the cardinal directions, and add t2 AA on the diagonals.

Doing it inefficiently.
The powerdraw from extractors is minimal. You should surround them with mass storage instead, for a total of +50% mass income.
Much easier to just build more power elsewhere than waste that mass bonus.

a byptoduct of me never learning what bonuses do what ;D

thanks for that though, i'll keep it in mind.