M28AI - AI mod for Forged Alliance

[maudlin27]

As of the latest update the M28AI mod should support games on LOUD and Steam (in addition to Forged Alliance Forever, or FAF, which is what it was originally developed for).

M28AI is an adaptive AI for Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance, intended to provide a challenging experience for players, making extensive use of microing skills coupled with strong macro capabilities to defeat opponents. Competent at both 1v1 and team based games (it's stronger than the average player on FAF), M28AI adopts an aggressive approach to the game, utilising a wide variety of tactics that will adapt based on what the player does. It is compatible with FAF, LOUD and Steam versions of the game, as well as various other mods for forged alliance (although playing on FAF is recommended for the most challenging experience).

You can access the mod from the github page (https://github.com/maudlin27/M28AI), download it from the FAF mod vault, or download from ModDB (https://www.moddb.com/mods/m28ai). For more details on the mod, see either the FAF forum post (https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v1) or the ModDB description.

In the case of steam, note that currently very limited testing has been done (i.e. I've got it to a point where it could play a couple of skirmish maps against the default AI and against Sorian AI without any major errors apparent). If you encounter significant issues or have any other feedback feel free to contact me on discord.

[Cookie]

I don't play on FAF and have been living off Sorian AI for the longest time. In all the matches i've played your AI outplays sorain every time. Super grateful for your development of the mod man. Really a solid AI.

[MisterCrow]

Thanks very much for creating this, looking forward to trying it out!

Only issue is, I'm following your instructions in the installation readme and I can't seem to add the M28AI folder to the mods.scd file using Z-zip. When I click "add" in 7-zip it says "Operation is not supported". I tried dragging the folder in too, but it doesn't work. I'm probably doing something wrong. Any ideas? Thanks

[maudlin27]

Originally posted by MisterCrow:

When I click "add" in 7-zip it says "Operation is not supported". I tried dragging the folder in too, but it doesn't work. I'm probably doing something wrong. Any ideas? Thanks

Are you able to click and drag the M28AI folder into it in 7Zip? I get the same 'operation is not supported' with the add button, but click+dragging works ok

[MisterCrow]

I'll give that a go, thanks

[DeviousDave]

Fantastic mod. Really enjoy the smarter AI, watching it try to bait my patrol fighters out of position by poking them and then retreating was jaw dropping compared to the usual AI tactic of "SMASH unit blob now!"

Only issue I have ran into so far is that it seems the AI doesn't like building normal ground units. It builds tons of engineers, uses those to build an experimental or two, then kites them around near the enemy base, retreating them the second any major attack occurs. The AI rarely backs those experimental's up with any real number of T1-3 units, with it usually only deploying a couple of mobile AA units and a mobile heavy arty or two.

It never sends in enough numbers to make a difference.

The only other thing is I would love if the AI used this mod:

Nuclear Repulsor Shields V23

Apparently it works with AI but in the test games I have played the M28AI never built any of the mega shields (and thus got owned by Aeon kill sats from the Black Ops mod)

Would it be possible to make the AI use these?

Thanks.

[Cookie]

AI doesn't use tier 1, 2 or 3 experimentals from Total Mayhem. Would be super cool if they could start utilizing those units.

[loudman2]

That's really very simple - Experimental is actually tier 4 - and there is no such definition of 'experimental' in T1 thru T3. The units would have to be reclassified within the unit mod to work properly, it's not the job of the AI to make that fix.

[Cookie]

Originally posted by loudman2:

That's really very simple - Experimental is actually tier 4 - and there is no such definition of 'experimental' in T1 thru T3. The units would have to be reclassified within the unit mod to work properly, it's not the job of the AI to make that fix.

SorainAI can properly utilize the units and that's quite an old mod

[loudman2]

That's because the author of TM did the necessary background work to make Sorian do that.

In order for a mod to work with the stock, or Sorian AI, a translation table that substitutes mod units, for units in the original unit table, has to be created. Since the author of TM is no longer around to support his work, this table doesn't exist for M28, and M28 makes choices not from this existing table mechanic, but thru some intelligent work using the classifications that are attached to units.

I have to imagine, that M28, seeing EXPERIMENTAL on those units, would just assume they are what they've been classed as, and since those particular units are quite weak in comparison to actual EXPERIMENTAL units, would not choose to build them.

While writing LOUD (which includes an adaptation of TM) I was faced with the same dilemma. Those units are not EXPERIMENTAL at all, just overpowered units from their own tier, reclassification was necessary in order to make the comparison with other units valid.

[Cookie]

Originally posted by loudman2:

That's because the author of TM did the necessary background work to make Sorian do that.

In order for a mod to work with the stock, or Sorian AI, a translation table that substitutes mod units, for units in the original unit table, has to be created. Since the author of TM is no longer around to support his work, this table doesn't exist for M28, and M28 makes choices not from this existing table mechanic, but thru some intelligent work using the classifications that are attached to units.

I have to imagine, that M28, seeing EXPERIMENTAL on those units, would just assume they are what they've been classed as, and since those particular units are quite weak in comparison to actual EXPERIMENTAL units, would not choose to build them.

While writing LOUD (which includes an adaptation of TM) I was faced with the same dilemma. Those units are not EXPERIMENTAL at all, just overpowered units from their own tier, reclassification was necessary in order to make the comparison with other units valid.

ah I understand now. Thank you

[maudlin27]

Originally posted by DeviousDave:

Only issue I have ran into so far is that it seems the AI doesn't like building normal ground units. It builds tons of engineers, uses those to build an experimental or two, then kites them around near the enemy base, retreating them the second any major attack occurs. The AI rarely backs those experimental's up with any real number of T1-3 units, with it usually only deploying a couple of mobile AA units and a mobile heavy arty or two.

Thanks for the feedback. The choice of favouring experimentals over T3 land is a conscious one as the AI was primarily done for FAF where it can be hard to get enough T3 land to overwhelm an experimental in time, and mass for mass experimentals aren't that much worse than a mass equivalent of T3 land (but don't require lots of land factories to support them).

Doing a basic sandbox in steam to see if the balance is significantly different 1 GC seems comparable to about 17 percivals, so I'm inclined to leave M28's experimental land prioritisation for now.

In terms of its MAA escort in theory this should adapt based on your playstyle and what intel it has - i.e. if it sees you have lots of bombers/gunships and a stronger asf force it should get more MAA to support its experimentals. That said it might think it has the stronger asf force if it lacks good intel, and/or recognise it needs more MAA but struggle to produce them fast enough. I'd need a replay to consider further but it'd be unlikely to result in a significant change.

In terms of T3 mobile arti that will depend on what units you build - e.g. it should build more if you're trying to build a firebase near its base (and it has intel of it).

The only other thing is I would love if the AI used this mod:
Nuclear Repulsor Shields V23

Apparently it works with AI but in the test games I have played the M28AI never built any of the mega shields (and thus got owned by Aeon kill sats from the Black Ops mod)

Would it be possible to make the AI use these?

I'd expect it to build the village shield generator in some rare cases (essentially if it is trying to build a game-ender and surround it with 6+ shields, there's a chance 1 of those shields might be an experimental shield). It won't try and build most of the shields though since they're larger than the normal size (so wont fit in its shield template for game-enders), while their cost means it wont want to build it to cover units other than a game-ender or T3 artillery.

[maudlin27]

Originally posted by Cookie:

AI doesn't use tier 1, 2 or 3 experimentals from Total Mayhem. Would be super cool if they could start utilizing those units.

It should build the experimental defence units (e.g. running a game to test just now several T2 and T3 experimental point defence and an experimental arti defence were built). I'll add in support for T3 'experimental' land units in the next update, but building T2 experimental units is unlikely for now since its logic for engineers assumes only T3 engineers and SACUs can build mobile experimental level units, and it'd need a bunch of new logic to decide if it has enough mass to justify an 'experimental' T2 land unit, but not enough to justify just getting a T3 land factory or (if it has t3 engineers) a T3 'experimental' land unit.

[Cookie]

Originally posted by maudlin27:

Originally posted by Cookie:

AI doesn't use tier 1, 2 or 3 experimentals from Total Mayhem. Would be super cool if they could start utilizing those units.

It should build the experimental defence units (e.g. running a game to test just now several T2 and T3 experimental point defence and an experimental arti defence were built). I'll add in support for T3 'experimental' land units in the next update, but building T2 experimental units is unlikely for now since its logic for engineers assumes only T3 engineers and SACUs can build mobile experimental level units, and it'd need a bunch of new logic to decide if it has enough mass to justify an 'experimental' T2 land unit, but not enough to justify just getting a T3 land factory or (if it has t3 engineers) a T3 'experimental' land unit.

Defensive units it does, Sorry I should have mentioned that. Any more this mod can do is a plus. Really changed the game for me as someone who doesnt play FAF or Loud. Thanks again for your work.

[maudlin27]

The T3 land experimentals should be supported in the latest release (v1.30), albeit I didn't do much testing so if they still never get built let me know - i.e. i'd expect there to be a chance for M28 to build them when its considering building its first normal T4 experimental

[Cookie]

Seems to have worked they make some T3 experimental units now!