Marianne is single handedly ruining the game

[ReaderMorgan]

She is way over tuned, can beat anyone in a fight and her stamina requires no management. dodge fire dodge fire dodge fire and you're basically untouchable. firing a single bolt should not hit stun the enemy player, her dodge should not be as spammable (both in terms of it's stamina usage and it's end lag). her entire kit is so over tuned she can easily 1v2 any situation her smoke grenade basically negates the pve part of the game for her and she has stupid amounts of super armor on her melee attacks (why the hell does an assassin character have hit stun resistance at ALL???). Any time I see a Marianne I basically have to pray they don't know how broken she is when they play her. Her only weakness is vs Robin at EXTREMELY long ranges. if you're a robin don't get the drop on her and you're in a mid to short range fight you're basically ♥♥♥♥♥♥ unless you outplay the ♥♥♥♥ out of them and dump a ton of resources into it but it doesn't take much for a Marianne to complete negate any attempt at outplay.

[Revan619]

Nono. Everyone else is undertuned. Buff and add more mechanics not nerf the only character in a usable spot

[Sugam]

Originally posted by Revan619:

Nono. Everyone else is undertuned. Buff and add more mechanics not nerf the only character in a usable spot

then you have to buff all the guards cause they will be even more of a joke then they already are. Then you have to buff the class's later cause some one says its a great idea to only buff. And then it never ends. Well, the game sucks anyways *shrugs*

[ReaderMorgan]

Originally posted by Revan619:

Nono. Everyone else is undertuned. Buff and add more mechanics not nerf the only character in a usable spot

I actually somewhat agree with this (only reason I am not 100% in agreement because I haven't played enough to fully form a precise opinion on the game's balance) This post was made in anger namely because I really like this game and want it to be great.

I wanted to mostly point out the issue rather than suggest a fix but I think my aggression and my word choice namely "overtuned" weighs it towards nerfing. I DO still think her stamina management needs a serious change because like I said there is no management to it. However the main issue lies in melee being underwhelming and it's mechanics just not being up to snuff against the dodge characters. and Robin basically is an Ouroboros who's perks just counter each other essentially never allowing him to move in power.

[Spicy Messiah]

Originally posted by Fictatious:

She is way over tuned, can beat anyone in a fight and her stamina requires no management. dodge fire dodge fire dodge fire and you're basically untouchable. firing a single bolt should not hit stun the enemy player, her dodge should not be as spammable (both in terms of it's stamina usage and it's end lag). her entire kit is so over tuned she can easily 1v2 any situation her smoke grenade basically negates the pve part of the game for her and she has stupid amounts of super armor on her melee attacks (why the hell does an assassin character have hit stun resistance at ALL???). Any time I see a Marianne I basically have to pray they don't know how broken she is when they play her. Her only weakness is vs Robin at EXTREMELY long ranges. if you're a robin don't get the drop on her and you're in a mid to short range fight you're basically ♥♥♥♥♥♥ unless you outplay the ♥♥♥♥ out of them and dump a ton of resources into it but it doesn't take much for a Marianne to complete negate any attempt at outplay.

Marianne main here. I understand the feeling of being bullied by a high level, laggy, or just really good Marianne. It helps me some to understand her mechanics firsthand, but in some cases I'm just outclassed.

That being said, I do understand her mechanics, and she's less imbalanced than you'd think. Her entire kit usually revolves around someone else being distracted or not paying attention to their surroundings. Her dodge stamina is less infinite than you'd think, and in terms of melee damage she's laughable; barely able to kill a weak Took and against John, virtually helpless.

That brings me to my personal whine: John. A high level good John is an absolute tyrant. He can run faster than anyone, move the chest faster, winch faster, soak damage like a boss, and can one-shot with his AOE hammer slam with the right build. John has very few drawbacks once you know how to play him. He even gets a Halo-style sticky bomb as a ranged throwable. I've seen 4 man teams of really tough Johns just steamroll the State and my team of Marianne/Took/Robins and just go on to rush the objective because you can't kill them fast enough to keep them off of the objective.

Back to Marianne, a few things to help you:

The smoke bomb only removes tag-lock. You can still see people in it, and hit them without lock-on capability. If you are John or Took, you are still likely to hit her with a swipe or AOE hammer slam than she is to scratch damage you with her blade. If you're a Robin, nuke arrow or GTFO.

Her assassinate is best used when you are already distracted with a fight. Combat takedowns are a gameplay mechanic, usable by anyone but work best with her skillset. They're cool when you're the one doing them and absolutely annoying when you fall prey to them. Part of me doesn't like how cheap they can be. In other situations, if a Marianne gets you from behind, that's kind of on you. The game is basically For Honor meets AC and you should always have your head on a swivel. You can deny her an assassination just by dodging to the side.

Her bolts are a mixed bag. She only has nine and if she opts to use the double/triple shot, she can do mad damage. But she can also miss those shots easily and lose her ranged capability. In my experience fighting other Mariannes, most are bad shots. Just mind game them into missing and then they have to melee or run away.

As for her stun resistance, this is not really the case. The animation may continue and she may get the hit in, but she's taking damage the entire time. I've mutual killed Tooks and enemy Mariannes by virtue of it counting my hit and theirs (not at the same time) and I finished the animation dead. Some of this is lag, I suspect too. I get a lot of problems in general with console crossplay (failed assassinations, ranged hits that miss for no apparent reason, etc.) but turning off crossplay increases the match timer more than I'd care to deal with.

Anyways, I get the point of raging. This game can certainly bring it out of us. I just wanted to offer some from-the-other-side advice, and take the small opportunity to point out why I think John is stupidly strong and needs balancing. As it is, Took is so difficult to use and niche he's rarely used well, much less seen. But John can just walk into Mordor, steal the One Ring, and dump it in the fires of Mount Doom without so much as a by your leave.

[Spoderman]

Originally posted by Stealth Moose:

Originally posted by Fictatious:

She is way over tuned, can beat anyone in a fight and her stamina requires no management. dodge fire dodge fire dodge fire and you're basically untouchable. firing a single bolt should not hit stun the enemy player, her dodge should not be as spammable (both in terms of it's stamina usage and it's end lag). her entire kit is so over tuned she can easily 1v2 any situation her smoke grenade basically negates the pve part of the game for her and she has stupid amounts of super armor on her melee attacks (why the hell does an assassin character have hit stun resistance at ALL???). Any time I see a Marianne I basically have to pray they don't know how broken she is when they play her. Her only weakness is vs Robin at EXTREMELY long ranges. if you're a robin don't get the drop on her and you're in a mid to short range fight you're basically ♥♥♥♥♥♥ unless you outplay the ♥♥♥♥ out of them and dump a ton of resources into it but it doesn't take much for a Marianne to complete negate any attempt at outplay.

Marianne main here. I understand the feeling of being bullied by a high level, laggy, or just really good Marianne. It helps me some to understand her mechanics firsthand, but in some cases I'm just outclassed.

That being said, I do understand her mechanics, and she's less imbalanced than you'd think. Her entire kit usually revolves around someone else being distracted or not paying attention to their surroundings. Her dodge stamina is less infinite than you'd think, and in terms of melee damage she's laughable; barely able to kill a weak Took and against John, virtually helpless.

That brings me to my personal whine: John. A high level good John is an absolute tyrant. He can run faster than anyone, move the chest faster, winch faster, soak damage like a boss, and can one-shot with his AOE hammer slam with the right build. John has very few drawbacks once you know how to play him. He even gets a Halo-style sticky bomb as a ranged throwable. I've seen 4 man teams of really tough Johns just steamroll the State and my team of Marianne/Took/Robins and just go on to rush the objective because you can't kill them fast enough to keep them off of the objective.

Back to Marianne, a few things to help you:

The smoke bomb only removes tag-lock. You can still see people in it, and hit them without lock-on capability. If you are John or Took, you are still likely to hit her with a swipe or AOE hammer slam than she is to scratch damage you with her blade. If you're a Robin, nuke arrow or GTFO.

Her assassinate is best used when you are already distracted with a fight. Combat takedowns are a gameplay mechanic, usable by anyone but work best with her skillset. They're cool when you're the one doing them and absolutely annoying when you fall prey to them. Part of me doesn't like how cheap they can be. In other situations, if a Marianne gets you from behind, that's kind of on you. The game is basically For Honor meets AC and you should always have your head on a swivel. You can deny her an assassination just by dodging to the side.

Her bolts are a mixed bag. She only has nine and if she opts to use the double/triple shot, she can do mad damage. But she can also miss those shots easily and lose her ranged capability. In my experience fighting other Mariannes, most are bad shots. Just mind game them into missing and then they have to melee or run away.

As for her stun resistance, this is not really the case. The animation may continue and she may get the hit in, but she's taking damage the entire time. I've mutual killed Tooks and enemy Mariannes by virtue of it counting my hit and theirs (not at the same time) and I finished the animation dead. Some of this is lag, I suspect too. I get a lot of problems in general with console crossplay (failed assassinations, ranged hits that miss for no apparent reason, etc.) but turning off crossplay increases the match timer more than I'd care to deal with.

Anyways, I get the point of raging. This game can certainly bring it out of us. I just wanted to offer some from-the-other-side advice, and take the small opportunity to point out why I think John is stupidly strong and needs balancing. As it is, Took is so difficult to use and niche he's rarely used well, much less seen. But John can just walk into Mordor, steal the One Ring, and dump it in the fires of Mount Doom without so much as a by your leave.

After reading this and holding the vomit back to finish this master piece of a "Marianne main" I would have to say if you are really crying about leap slam john and his sticky bombs then you have no idea how out of touch you are with Marianne. Enemies have to be distracted for you to kill them??? I run directly to their spawn point at the start of the map and 1v4 while my team grabs the control points, key, chest, and walks it to the drop off point. Do not try to defend a character that as far as capabilities go dwarfs all the other characters in combat and can easily avoid and remove detection with smoke bombs and stealth whenever she wants to.

[Spicy Messiah]

Okay bro. Great argument.

[Spoderman]

Originally posted by Stealth Moose:

Okay bro. Great argument.

Good talk bro get better at marianne before you come here crying about a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ leap slam john. maybe learn to dodge.

Peace out Cub scout

[Raptor]

"Players can now exit stagger/stun more consistently through dodging/blocking, to reduce situations where players would get stunlocked"

And I am now officially done with the game.

[Revan619]

Okay I feel like some Marianne mains are being sneaky here. Don't let them lie to you. By comparison she is overpowered and the only character than can 1v4 consistently.

She can kill any character in two shots. Which she can charge two to do instantly. With roving rogue she has unlimited bolts and with survivalist she can dodge far enough to keep max stamina. She can also dodge and fire at the same time.

Never try to 1v1 a compotent Marianne. Always use the numbers, try to parry her shots whilst a team mate runs for an assassination or you time your attacks to force her to dodge one of you then the other catches her as she comes out of her dodge. Everyone can two shot so if you play well you can get her.

Be warned she can choose to ignore the guy trying to parry, kill the other guy then go back to stomping the first. John is the weakest character who should never try to 1v1. Tooke can maybe get away with it if she chooses to fight in his stamina grenades and Robin desperately needs his flash and melee perks to kill her.

[Spicy Messiah]

Originally posted by Revan619:

Okay I feel like some Marianne mains are being sneaky here. Don't let them lie to you. By comparison she is overpowered and the only character than can 1v4 consistently.

I really wish this was the case, because I'd never lose.

Maybe I'm just really, really bad. Or you know, maybe some really good meta crutch build Mariannes are that good and I don't see that all the time.

[Revan619]

Originally posted by Stealth Moose:

Originally posted by Revan619:

Okay I feel like some Marianne mains are being sneaky here. Don't let them lie to you. By comparison she is overpowered and the only character than can 1v4 consistently.

I really wish this was the case, because I'd never lose.

Maybe I'm just really, really bad. Or you know, maybe some really good meta crutch build Mariannes are that good and I don't see that all the time.

Streamed about 50 hours. Roving rouge for increased crouch speed. Survivalist for double i-frames plus dodge distance. Refined frame to quick fire two shot anyone.

I tend to only die if I make a mistake and I never feel like it is because the hero lacked something. It has gotten so bad winning with Marianne is just too easy and playing someone else feels like I'm trying to handicap myself and the team.

I don't think I'm fantastic but here is just a typical game from last night https://youtu.be/fvMOjRX3yus

Played four games. All of them like this. At least two full teams quit and new players joined.

[Bleezip]

Sure glad this patch did nothing to fix her...

[chicken]

Yeah Marianne is extremely strong like I said day 2 of games release. Crazy how long it took people to catch on. If you come from any sort of Fps background she becomes a broken tactical assault rifle. She definitely doesn’t belong in this game.

I’d normally argue Robin to be insane as well, but he has a lot of stopgaps in place (slowest movement speed/ perks that only support his melee and arrow abilities with very minimal gains to damage and a lot of downsides/ projectile only with very slow wind up time per shot/ no stamina related perks), preventing him from being as strong as Marianne who freely can hit and run like you’re playing Apex Legends.

It’s almost as if the Developers forgot that Marianne existed during balancing and poured all of their attention to Robin instead to prevent someone like Shroud devastating an entire team solo (although to some extent Robin still can).

Marianne definitely needs the Robin tune-up. As this isn’t a full stop FPS but a mix of a fighter as well. Games like mordhau and chivalry arguably balance stuff like this really well.

[Revan619]

Originally posted by vivy:

Yeah Marianne is extremely strong like I said day 2 of games release. Crazy how long it took people to catch on. If you come from any sort of Fps background she becomes a broken tactical assault rifle. She definitely doesn’t belong in this game.

I’d normally argue Robin to be insane as well, but he has a lot of stopgaps in place (slowest movement speed/ perks that only support his melee and arrow abilities with very minimal gains to damage and a lot of downsides/ projectile only with very slow wind up time per shot/ no stamina related perks), preventing him from being as strong as Marianne who freely can hit and run like you’re playing Apex Legends.

It’s almost as if the Developers forgot that Marianne existed during balancing and poured all of their attention to Robin instead to prevent someone like Shroud devastating an entire team solo (although to some extent Robin still can).

Marianne definitely needs the Robin tune-up. As this isn’t a full stop FPS but a mix of a fighter as well. Games like mordhau and chivalry arguably balance stuff like this really well.

Anyone coming from a dark souls background realised this pre-launch. Most people were too busy freaking out over John's one shot or Tooke's heavy reach as they had never played these sort of games. I still see people trying to say Robin is OP because they can get kills on people that stand still for his four second charge up

[chicken]

Originally posted by Revan619:

Originally posted by vivy:

Yeah Marianne is extremely strong like I said day 2 of games release. Crazy how long it took people to catch on. If you come from any sort of Fps background she becomes a broken tactical assault rifle. She definitely doesn’t belong in this game.

I’d normally argue Robin to be insane as well, but he has a lot of stopgaps in place (slowest movement speed/ perks that only support his melee and arrow abilities with very minimal gains to damage and a lot of downsides/ projectile only with very slow wind up time per shot/ no stamina related perks), preventing him from being as strong as Marianne who freely can hit and run like you’re playing Apex Legends.

It’s almost as if the Developers forgot that Marianne existed during balancing and poured all of their attention to Robin instead to prevent someone like Shroud devastating an entire team solo (although to some extent Robin still can).

Marianne definitely needs the Robin tune-up. As this isn’t a full stop FPS but a mix of a fighter as well. Games like mordhau and chivalry arguably balance stuff like this really well.

Anyone coming from a dark souls background realised this pre-launch. Most people were too busy freaking out over John's one shot or Tooke's heavy reach as they had never played these sort of games. I still see people trying to say Robin is OP because they can get kills on people that stand still for his four second charge up

Yea the John one shot was never OP to me at all. John barely ever hits me on Robin and Marianne.