Wow the loot, Shops and crafting is really bad.

[Zaela Zhezzaia]

I am finding it hard to play this game. As I am having a hard time getting a good gun. Even killed a sniper enemy and I got useless junk off her body. Fact it gotten to the point I stop looting places as there seems to just be junk and crafting mats. Yet crafting is pointless and selling stuff is pointless.

Shops have nothing but junk. Like the main weapon shop only has a single gun in it. No ammo. Armor shop almost never gets new armor. I am really down to my last mag of bullets and I can not seem to find a place that sells pistol ammo.

I can not craft hardly anything as I need a freaking skill book to even craft them. What was the point spending crafting skill points on crafting perks. When crafting needs a book to even craft them.

[Blackdragon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AtmaDarkwolf:

All the above suggestions, while nice to have options, are simply attempts at 'putting a bandaid on a gaping wound'!
The gist of this thread was that gear is difficult to come by (Even later in the game) and some of the planned builds are harder due to the difficulty finding the right gear.

Having every item(including armor, etc) have 'upgrade paths' which allow one to upgrade said item to its next tier (IE: how it works with the new updated weapons, specifically hand to hand and psionic weapons, having 10 possible upgrade jumps, each requiring a fair bit of 'junk' items and a upgrade book) would work great with armor, backpacks, belts, etc, as well. Would allow the player to use up some of that garbage junk that seems to exist in the 1000000 freaking loot-able crates in every map.

Crafting is just an annoying timesink anyway. There is zero fun in looting those 1,000,000 crates and carrying tons of useless junk. Obtaining new items should be a thrill and give a sense of achievement. Like picking up the Psi-katana from a display case in the project bunker - that was a unique event, like Butch picking up the katana in "Pulp Fiction". Powerful items should carry their own game stories - like to get that Level 10 Sledgehammer you should defeat the Champion of the Arena, not just stumble upon a random merchant selling it for 400 creds, or make it yourself out of a 100 different types of useless crap.

Games like Fallout, Baldur's Gate or Elder Scrolls were so great with items because the items had their own place in the world, and many were actually unique and storied. Like anybody who played Fallout remembers the Bozar guards or the Alien blaster, and those who played BG2 remember the Flail of Ages, Lilarcor or Carsomyr. Same with armor - every armor in Fallout is iconic, from "Mad Max" leather jacket to Enclave Advanced Power Armor. And every Morrowind fan will hear "I'm watching you, scum" when casting a glance on Ordinator armor.

In Encased items are just randomly generated generic filler that have zero sense or logic, not to mention history, behind them. You can encounter a random merchant that suddenly has an epic weapon or armor in his inventory, or you can never find a decent item for your build for dozens of game hours in a row. If you kill a Black soldier you don't get his armor or weapon, if you kill a Cult bishop you won't get his fancy robe, none of the NPCs carry any of the stuff they ostensibly use, there are hardly any legendary items. It's just one big pile of decaying garbage, and the crafting system is its rotten core.

No, I don't want to roleplay a bum looting hundreds of garbage bins for bits of crap to finally upgrade my generic damage stick from X damage to X+2 damage. I want to fight or outsmart or deceive cool enemies and do interesting quests to obtain unique, storied gear that will make my character look and feel like a hero, not just a guy who stumbles into random stuff in nondescript shops or literally throws it together from discarded junk.

If any Encased devs are reading this (small chance, but hey): guys, don't shoot yourselves in the foot with this. Do what all the great CRPGs of the past did: Fallout 1/2, BG, Elder Scrolls, Gothic et al., instead of copying damn Diablo clones or looter shooters with their randomly generated crap!

[AtmaDarkwolf]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Blackdragon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AtmaDarkwolf:

All the above suggestions, while nice to have options, are simply attempts at 'putting a bandaid on a gaping wound'!
The gist of this thread was that gear is difficult to come by (Even later in the game) and some of the planned builds are harder due to the difficulty finding the right gear.

Having every item(including armor, etc) have 'upgrade paths' which allow one to upgrade said item to its next tier (IE: how it works with the new updated weapons, specifically hand to hand and psionic weapons, having 10 possible upgrade jumps, each requiring a fair bit of 'junk' items and a upgrade book) would work great with armor, backpacks, belts, etc, as well. Would allow the player to use up some of that garbage junk that seems to exist in the 1000000 freaking loot-able crates in every map.

Crafting is just an annoying timesink anyway. There is zero fun in looting those 1,000,000 crates and carrying tons of useless junk. Obtaining new items should be a thrill and give a sense of achievement. Like picking up the Psi-katana from a display case in the project bunker - that was a unique event, like Butch picking up the katana in "Pulp Fiction". Powerful items should carry their own game stories - like to get that Level 10 Sledgehammer you should defeat the Champion of the Arena, not just stumble upon a random merchant selling it for 400 creds, or make it yourself out of a 100 different types of useless crap.

Games like Fallout, Baldur's Gate or Elder Scrolls were so great with items because the items had their own place in the world, and many were actually unique and storied. Like anybody who played Fallout remembers the Bozar guards or the Alien blaster, and those who played BG2 remember the Flail of Ages, Lilarcor or Carsomyr. Same with armor - every armor in Fallout is iconic, from "Mad Max" leather jacket to Enclave Advanced Power Armor. And every Morrowind fan will hear "I'm watching you, scum" when casting a glance on Ordinator armor.

In Encased items are just randomly generated generic filler that have zero sense or logic, not to mention history, behind them. You can encounter a random merchant that suddenly has an epic weapon or armor in his inventory, or you can never find a decent item for your build for dozens of game hours in a row. If you kill a Black soldier you don't get his armor or weapon, if you kill a Cult bishop you won't get his fancy robe, none of the NPCs carry any of the stuff they ostensibly use, there are hardly any legendary items. It's just one big pile of decaying garbage, and the crafting system is its rotten core.

No, I don't want to roleplay a bum looting hundreds of garbage bins for bits of crap to finally upgrade my generic damage stick from X damage to X+2 damage. I want to fight or outsmart or deceive cool enemies and do interesting quests to obtain unique, storied gear that will make my character look and feel like a hero, not just a guy who stumbles into random stuff in nondescript shops or literally throws it together from discarded junk.

If any Encased devs are reading this (small chance, but hey): guys, don't shoot yourselves in the foot with this. Do what all the great CRPGs of the past did: Fallout 1/2, BG, Elder Scrolls, Gothic et al., instead of copying damn Diablo clones or looter shooters with their randomly generated crap!

Yes. This. Devs please read carefully, and know it is NOT enjoyable, not in the least, to sift though all those generic containers(Worsened btw by the fact your toon will pass out from opening locks, and the 10seconds it takes to open some crates) all while knowing you have less than a 1% chance to MAYBE find a relic. Likely, if u do, its inactive.

Each location, even random events, should have something to find, doing that gives the player the excited rush 'maybe I will find something neat? If not, at least I can sell it and trade for something neat!'

Also, really hope u have plans for crafting beyond what it is now, it really is boring and tedious, and most cooking recipes produce stuff much worse than easily obtained 'Lunch boxes'

[r-cane]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Blackdragon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von xarfaks:

Pretty much....
Most lootable containers are also random.......
Same goes for killed enemies the loot is also random......

There is one area the Slums. (Main story project bunker)
There is a chance that vendors from different factions show up and they can have very high level gear..... So basically keep loading into the area until you see that vendor and then until you see useful stuff in his inventory.

Was looking for decent shops and can't find these vendors. Should they appear inside the Emulator project bunker? Nobody there except the project staff and the zombies in cells.

Really, itemisation in this game is atrocious, NPCs don't drop their armor or weapons when killed, there are almost no armor/weapon shops, no signs, no directions, nothing indicated on maps...

20 levels into the game, my character is still running around in clothes from the prologue Concord base.

How hard can it be to simply use the loot system from the original Fallout and Baldur's Gate games? Why do modern developers always want to "reinvent the wheel" and "fix things that aren't broken", screwing everything up in the process?

Yeah, not being able to loot the equipment of the enemy is a No-Go. Not only is it immersion killing, it's also no fun. It's a cheap and bad way to deal with the fear that the game economy would crash otherwise. But as I said before, either weapons are rare, which means most enemies wont have them, therefor you wont be able to loot much of them, meaning the few that you can loot are actually worth something, OR, weapons are common, most enemies are walking around with them giving you a lot of loot, but because they are just everywhere they aren't worth much. That's how immersion&economy should work. Not "Hey, you just killed the sniper that shot at you from a large distance, after you were able to barely survive reaching him, so gratulations, he has no sniper rifle but two buritos and a walkman."

Seriously, I dont know what the problem is there. It doesn't sound like something that would be hard to fix. Yet they still haven't done that.

[titanopteryx]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von r-cane:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Blackdragon:

Was looking for decent shops and can't find these vendors. Should they appear inside the Emulator project bunker? Nobody there except the project staff and the zombies in cells.

Really, itemisation in this game is atrocious, NPCs don't drop their armor or weapons when killed, there are almost no armor/weapon shops, no signs, no directions, nothing indicated on maps...

20 levels into the game, my character is still running around in clothes from the prologue Concord base.

How hard can it be to simply use the loot system from the original Fallout and Baldur's Gate games? Why do modern developers always want to "reinvent the wheel" and "fix things that aren't broken", screwing everything up in the process?

Yeah, not being able to loot the equipment of the enemy is a No-Go. Not only is it immersion killing, it's also no fun. It's a cheap and bad way to deal with the fear that the game economy would crash otherwise. But as I said before, either weapons are rare, which means most enemies wont have them, therefor you wont be able to loot much of them, meaning the few that you can loot are actually worth something, OR, weapons are common, most enemies are walking around with them giving you a lot of loot, but because they are just everywhere they aren't worth much. That's how immersion&economy should work. Not "Hey, you just killed the sniper that shot at you from a large distance, after you were able to barely survive reaching him, so gratulations, he has no sniper rifle but two buritos and a walkman."

Seriously, I dont know what the problem is there. It doesn't sound like something that would be hard to fix. Yet they still haven't done that.

It would actually be more immersion breaking if our character was walking around with a stack or armor pieces in his arms that he took off a bunch of people he killed while holding a stack of armor pieces in his arms.

[Blackdragon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von r-cane:

game economy

It doesn't exist. There is no point "playing fair" as you will just enslave yourself to RNG and waste time sifting through thousands of garbage bins instead of fun gameplay. Just kill one shopkeeper and "pretend" he had all the generic items you need, then use the console to summon those items. Case closed and buried.

The only time this kind of dumb RNG can be remotely fun is when it's part of a super-fast-paced Action RPG or Shooter game. And even then, it quickly devolves into soulless grind, but at least it keeps your synapses kind of engaged with all the fast action and instant gratification. Putting this mechanic into a thoughtful, slow-paced CRPG and taxing it with time-wasters like "10 seconds to open a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ box" or "+75 fatigue for picking a lock, oops now you have to spend 10 minutes looking for a bed to sleep, oops you've had a "bad night" so now must sleep again" turns it from "barely tolerable" into "endless frustration".

But oh, at least it's simpler to develop than, you know, putting some thought into item placement, quests and stories...

How come 20+ year old games are so much better than this modern low-IQ crap? It's like they're TRYING to make their game worse...

[Blackdragon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von titanopteryx:

It would actually be more immersion breaking if our character was walking around with a stack or armor pieces in his arms that he took off a bunch of people he killed while holding a stack of armor pieces in his arms.

This point is entirely moot as the character is already walking around carrying a ton of useless junk on top of any armor pieces and weapons he might have scrounged up.

And doubly moot since of course he's not "carrying it in his arms", it's what the literal in-game backpacks are for.

[titanopteryx]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Blackdragon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von titanopteryx:

It would actually be more immersion breaking if our character was walking around with a stack or armor pieces in his arms that he took off a bunch of people he killed while holding a stack of armor pieces in his arms.

This point is entirely moot as the character is already walking around carrying a ton of useless junk on top of any armor pieces and weapons he might have scrounged up.

And doubly moot since of course he's not "carrying it in his arms", it's what the literal in-game backpacks are for.

I don't know what kind of backpack you wear, but the amount of stuff my character goes around with in his inventory wouldn't fit inside any backpack that I've ever used. The shovel alone would be too long to fit in one. Also there are some food items that supposedly are in our backpack that would and should be getting all over everything else in the pack.

[AtmaDarkwolf]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von titanopteryx:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Blackdragon:

Shortened quote, not being disrespectful..

Shortened quote to preserve pagespace.

I have to disagree about the shovel, since military/survival shovels fold up and are at most 1.5-2feet in length, about 1 foot wide and can easily be tucked away inside a backpack and quickly unfolded. They are typically smaller than normal (4-5feet shovels you use in garden) but one can see the icon used in game and see it is indeed one of those survival shovels.

And about broken armor pieces and such, yea the plates and such, in full form (assembled) would be bulky as all frank, but if you just have bits and pieces, they can easily be stacked in a somewhat portable way.

Although I do have to agree about the fact that, even with the above taken as fact, the sheer volume and mass of items one would have would far exceed anyone's ability to carry, EVEN if they can 'lift' the amount, the volume they would take up, in my minds eye, would take a backpack 10x10x10 feet wide to only carry what I can haul around ingame on my solo toon.

[Starstryke]

Quite a few guns available in the military floor of the Magellan after the prologue. I already had a Kraut which is my main gun atm but lots of light and heavy guns and nothing else in that store.

[Kinakin]

Note merhants restoc every few days or so. Dunno the excat timer. also seems to level up the inventory in some fashion according to your level.

[dq_177]

Enemies should drop the gear they used.
Have been mucking around at the start of the game just to try things out, killed a character who was shooting me with a pistol and their corpse instead had a melee weapon and a single brass cartridge?

[AtmaDarkwolf]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von dq_177:

Enemies should drop the gear they used.
Have been mucking around at the start of the game just to try things out, killed a character who was shooting me with a pistol and their corpse instead had a melee weapon and a single brass cartridge?

Encased video game explanation: you hit them so f__king hard, u atomized everything they were carrying, and the one bullet was the one they dropped when trying to reload.

[AtmaDarkwolf]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AtmaDarkwolf:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von dq_177:

Enemies should drop the gear they used.
Have been mucking around at the start of the game just to try things out, killed a character who was shooting me with a pistol and their corpse instead had a melee weapon and a single brass cartridge?

Encased video game explanation: you hit them so f__king hard, u atomized everything they were carrying, and the one bullet was the one they dropped when trying to reload.

*psst just trying to inject some humor in the thread*

[mm.324]

I find it hilarious that nobody from Dark Crystal Games has responded in this thread, in spite of the fact that they state "Encased community is the most important for us - we are going to follow up those closely for your feedback on the game." at the end of every one of their announcements.

[Blackdragon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von mm.324:

I find it hilarious that nobody from Dark Crystal Games has responded in this thread, in spite of the fact that they state "Encased community is the most important for us - we are going to follow up those closely for your feedback on the game." at the end of every one of their announcements.

They're probably hiding the fact that itemisation is such a failure in this game. It was a bad design decision from the get-go, likely driven by some incompetent nincompoop who never even played Fallout but made a case about how "popular" "modern" games use random loot to "increase replayability" and "cut costs". At this point they're too afraid to question it because it will reveal incompetence, and also because "too late to change the system" (likely a load of bull as well, they just don't want to admit their mistakes and do extra work/crunch).

Developers, especially small ones with a niche market, should learn to listen to their fanbase/target audience and hire people based on actual relevant experience, not padded resumes and buzzwords.