Am I reading the EULA correctly?

[Guardfather]

Does it actually straight up tell us that the company is harvesting extremely personal data not just from visiting the site, or device hardware IDs, or tracking pixels (all these things are covered), but also getting more data about users from data brokers AND snooping on your favorites (bookmarks?) and search engine choice?

wtf. Is this game some straight up spyware?

[Athemus]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Guardfather:

Does it actually straight up tell us that the company is harvesting extremely personal data not just from visiting the site, or device hardware IDs, or tracking pixels (all these things are covered), but also getting more data about users from data brokers AND snooping on your favorites (bookmarks?) and search engine choice?

wtf. Is this game some straight up spyware?

Why do you care? nobody cares about how much time you spend on ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Rampage]

Yup most games are just fronts for data collection these days

[Tally]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Guardfather:

wtf. Is this game some straight up spyware?

Seemingly so :(

[Ashley]

every piece of modern software is spyware. what kind of world do you think you live in?
you're roughly 20 years late to the party.

[Tally]

The 'every piece of software does this' line is not true. Many games just use the stock steam EULA, which does not give permission for this level of data collection and sale. Even many with a 3rd party EULA do not go as far as this.

[Darkeus]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Scipo0419:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Guardfather:

Does it actually straight up tell us that the company is harvesting extremely personal data not just from visiting the site, or device hardware IDs, or tracking pixels (all these things are covered), but also getting more data about users from data brokers AND snooping on your favorites (bookmarks?) and search engine choice?

wtf. Is this game some straight up spyware?

Well, yes. But actually, no.

It explicitly states that information you provide will be stored. I.e. Username, email, password, date of birth, country, etc. This is pretty standard stuff that any site with accounts will store.

The information collected automatically is a very legal-ese broadstroke way of saying "we collect information based on your actions on our websites and in-game." they mention at the start of the privacy policy section in the EULA that it's for in-game and www.lastepoch.com and unless I missed something (which is possible, legal jargon IS hard to read) there's no mention of bookmarks, but yes they will collect information on you from data brokers if that data broker has information on you. Which is the legal coverage way of saying "if I buy a pack of Pokémon cards, and there's a Charizard in it, you can't sue me." they aren't specifically buying YOUR information. They're buying general user information that's been collected from other sites (Facebook, Amazon, YouTube, Steam, etc) and if your data happens to be in that general purchase then they're legally covered.

Edit: All this is to say, this is really standard Privacy Policy stuff and services like TikTok, Facebook, and Amazon collect far more information about you than EHG ever will.

Edit 2: Went back to double check the Bookmarks stuff and that's definitely not in there, but what's hilarious is that literally the next section is detailed information on how to opt out of what information is collected by them. Even with steps on how to remove the information Google has on you that they can access with their data purchases. This is probably the most tame privacy policy I've ever seen. Super transparent and even blatantly helpful.

This is the answer. Wonder if anyone will pay attention.

[Guardfather]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Scipo0419:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Guardfather:

Does it actually straight up tell us that the company is harvesting extremely personal data not just from visiting the site, or device hardware IDs, or tracking pixels (all these things are covered), but also getting more data about users from data brokers AND snooping on your favorites (bookmarks?) and search engine choice?

wtf. Is this game some straight up spyware?

It explicitly states that information you provide will be stored. I.e. Username, email, password, date of birth, country, etc. This is pretty standard stuff that any site with accounts will store.

I wasn't addressing typical payment information. That is obvious and has been standard for decades, including before the widespread use of the internet.

The information collected automatically is a very legal-ese broadstroke way of saying "we collect information based on your actions on our websites and in-game." they mention at the start of the privacy policy section in the EULA that it's for in-game and www.lastepoch.com and unless I missed something (which is possible, legal jargon IS hard to read) there's no mention of bookmarks, but yes they will collect information on you from data brokers if that data broker has information on you. Which is the legal coverage way of saying "if I buy a pack of Pokémon cards, and there's a Charizard in it, you can't sue me." they aren't specifically buying YOUR information. They're buying general user information that's been collected from other sites (Facebook, Amazon, YouTube, Steam, etc) and if your data happens to be in that general purchase then they're legally covered.

So basically you're saying it's fine because it's a "trust me bro" situation like some guy saying "Here, sign this document saying I can enter your house at any time. But don't worry, I'm not gonna." Given the myriad privacy abuses that have been exposed, and the little slaps on the wrist they get, that's a monumentally ridiculous stance to take.

Edit: All this is to say, this is really standard Privacy Policy stuff and services like TikTok, Facebook, and Amazon collect far more information about you than EHG ever will.

I don't run Facebook, TikTok, or Amazon software on my devices. While they all do have shadow profiles on non-users, I choose not to run their software on my devices because that's a level of access and intrusion I find reprehensible. Which is why I'm also not going to play Last Epoch, unless they come out in plain language stating explicitly that they will not collect any of the information they imply they can and do collect in their EULA. That "standard privacy policy" stuff is only "standard" because of apologists like you and others in the comment section accepting and even defending it.

Edit 2: Went back to double check the Bookmarks stuff and that's definitely not in there, but what's hilarious is that literally the next section is detailed information on how to opt out of what information is collected by them. Even with steps on how to remove the information Google has on you that they can access with their data purchases. This is probably the most tame privacy policy I've ever seen. Super transparent and even blatantly helpful.

"- Profile Data, including your interests, inferences, preferences and favorites."
Favorites was a term used by Internet Explorer for a long time, whereas Netscape Navigator, and subsequent Mozilla browsers used Bookmarks. Chrome and Safari also chose to go with Bookmarks. In the context used here, one could say "favorites" pertains to something else, such as favorite games, servers, builds, etc.. However, it's vague. It uses the "broad strokes" you mentioned which could cover a browser's bookmarks. The profiles data brokers have on people include things related to browsing history, preferences, and bookmarks. So yes, it is there. I believe you are looking at another ToS.

Here's a relevant portion of it:

- Profile Data, including your interests, inferences, preferences and favorites.
- Content, including content within any messages you send to us (such as feedback and questions to customer support) or publicly post on the Service (such as in product reviews or blog comments). We also collect content within any messages you exchange with other users through the Service (such as if you post to our forums).

You may choose to voluntarily provide other information to us that we do not request, and, in such instances, you are solely responsible for such information.



1. B. Information Collected Automatically.

Where possible, information will be obtained directly from You. However, You acknowledge that by accessing or making use of any of the Website or Services, information may also be collected from You automatically as a result of the function of the Website or Services and the underlying systems and software. The categories of information we automatically collect, and have collected in the past 12 months, include:

- Service Use Data, including data about features you use, pages you visit, emails and advertisements you view, products and services you view and purchase, the date and time of day you browse, and your referring and exiting pages.

- Device Data, including data about the type of device or browser you use, your device's operating software, your internet service provider, your browser and any search engine used by You, Your device's regional and language settings, and device identifiers such as IP address and Ad Id, and telemetry details.

- Location Data, including imprecise location data (such as location derived from an IP address or data that indicates a city or postal code level).

- Crash Report Data, including a reference to Your member account, a portion of the memory state of the Last Epoch game You were playing when the crash occurred and the game settings You were using.

The types of tracking technologies we use to automatically collect information include:

- Log Files, which are files that record events that occur in connection with your use of the Service.

- Cookies, which are alphanumeric identifiers which are transferred to Your computer's hard drive through Your web browser to enable Eleventh Hour Games to recognize You whenever You access the Website and therefore better personalize Your access to and use of the Website and Services. A cookie does not identify You personally but it does identify Your computer. The help portion of Your browser's toolbar should tell You how to prevent Your browser from accepting new cookies, how to have the browser notify You when You receive a new cookie, or how to disable cookies altogether. You should note however that if You do not allow the use of cookies or do not wish to provide certain information to Eleventh Hour Games, You may not be able to take full advantage of the Website and Services.

- Pixels (also known as web beacons), which is code** embedded in a website, video, email, or advertisement that sends information about your use to a server. There are various types of pixels, including image pixels (which are small graphic images) and JavaScript pixels (which contains JavaScript code). When you access a website, video, email, or advertisement that contains a pixel, the pixel may permit us or a separate entity to drop or read cookies on your browser. Pixels are used in combination with cookies to track activity by a particular browser on a particular device. We may incorporate pixels from separate entities, including Facebook, that allow us to track our conversions, bring you advertising both on and off the Service, and provide you with additional functionality, such as the ability to connect our Service with your social media account.

- Device Fingerprinting, which is the process of analyzing and combining sets of data elements from your device's browser, such as JavaScript objects and installed fonts, to create a "fingerprint" of your device and uniquely identify your browser and device.

- App Technologies, which are technologies included in our apps that are not browser-based like cookies and cannot be controlled by browser settings. For example, our apps may include SDKs, which is code that sends information about your use to a server, for instance through the Facebook SDK. These SDKs allow us to track our conversions, bring you advertising both on and off the Service, and provide you with additional functionality, such as the ability to connect our Service with your social media account.

- Location-Identifying Technologies, which are technologies used to collect your location. For example, GPS, WiFi, and Bluetooth may be used to collect precise location data when you consent to precise location tracking through our apps. Location data may be used for purposes such as verifying your device's location and delivering or restricting relevant content and advertising based on that location.

For further information on how we use tracking technologies for analytics and advertising, and your rights and choices regarding them, see the "Analytics and Advertising" and "Your Rights and Choices" sections below.

1. C. Information from Other Sources.

We also collect information from other sources. The categories of sources from which we collect information include:

- Data Brokers from which we purchase data to supplement the data we collect.
- Social networks with which you interact.

- Partners that offer co-branded services, sell or distribute our products, such as Steam, or engage in joint marketing activities.

- Publicly-available sources, including data in the public domain.

So yeah. That's some straight up, hardcore spyware. You are wrong. It goes way beyond what most game EULAs I've seen do.

[Guardfather]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cpt Obvious:

What kind of nerd read EULA.

Those who are smart enough to understand the future implications of data abuses, and care enough to try to protect the duller masses who don't bother to educate themselves.

[Tally]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Scipo0419:

Went back to double check the Bookmarks stuff and that's definitely not in there, but what's hilarious is that literally the next section is detailed information on how to opt out of what information is collected by them. Even with steps on how to remove the information Google has on you that they can access with their data purchases. This is probably the most tame privacy policy I've ever seen. Super transparent and even blatantly helpful.

Only people living in certain places in the world have the option to opt out, however, at least where it comes to the EU and UK, that option does next to nothing. You have to email their customer support, and they have 30 days to respond. The collation and sale of data will be automated and take probably only minuets to complete, certainly it will not take 30 days, so unfortunately that data protection legislation is not fit for purpose.

[Hello]

https://steamcommunity.com/id/pen-chan/recommended/

game industry steal all your data and everything you do in the game.

[Deathspider12]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Guardfather:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Scipo0419:

It explicitly states that information you provide will be stored. I.e. Username, email, password, date of birth, country, etc. This is pretty standard stuff that any site with accounts will store.

I wasn't addressing typical payment information. That is obvious and has been standard for decades, including before the widespread use of the internet.

The information collected automatically is a very legal-ese broadstroke way of saying "we collect information based on your actions on our websites and in-game." they mention at the start of the privacy policy section in the EULA that it's for in-game and www.lastepoch.com and unless I missed something (which is possible, legal jargon IS hard to read) there's no mention of bookmarks, but yes they will collect information on you from data brokers if that data broker has information on you. Which is the legal coverage way of saying "if I buy a pack of Pokémon cards, and there's a Charizard in it, you can't sue me." they aren't specifically buying YOUR information. They're buying general user information that's been collected from other sites (Facebook, Amazon, YouTube, Steam, etc) and if your data happens to be in that general purchase then they're legally covered.

So basically you're saying it's fine because it's a "trust me bro" situation like some guy saying "Here, sign this document saying I can enter your house at any time. But don't worry, I'm not gonna." Given the myriad privacy abuses that have been exposed, and the little slaps on the wrist they get, that's a monumentally ridiculous stance to take.

Edit: All this is to say, this is really standard Privacy Policy stuff and services like TikTok, Facebook, and Amazon collect far more information about you than EHG ever will.

I don't run Facebook, TikTok, or Amazon software on my devices. While they all do have shadow profiles on non-users, I choose not to run their software on my devices because that's a level of access and intrusion I find reprehensible. Which is why I'm also not going to play Last Epoch, unless they come out in plain language stating explicitly that they will not collect any of the information they imply they can and do collect in their EULA. That "standard privacy policy" stuff is only "standard" because of apologists like you and others in the comment section accepting and even defending it.

Edit 2: Went back to double check the Bookmarks stuff and that's definitely not in there, but what's hilarious is that literally the next section is detailed information on how to opt out of what information is collected by them. Even with steps on how to remove the information Google has on you that they can access with their data purchases. This is probably the most tame privacy policy I've ever seen. Super transparent and even blatantly helpful.

"- Profile Data, including your interests, inferences, preferences and favorites."
Favorites was a term used by Internet Explorer for a long time, whereas Netscape Navigator, and subsequent Mozilla browsers used Bookmarks. Chrome and Safari also chose to go with Bookmarks. In the context used here, one could say "favorites" pertains to something else, such as favorite games, servers, builds, etc.. However, it's vague. It uses the "broad strokes" you mentioned which could cover a browser's bookmarks. The profiles data brokers have on people include things related to browsing history, preferences, and bookmarks. So yes, it is there. I believe you are looking at another ToS.

Here's a relevant portion of it:

- Profile Data, including your interests, inferences, preferences and favorites.
- Content, including content within any messages you send to us (such as feedback and questions to customer support) or publicly post on the Service (such as in product reviews or blog comments). We also collect content within any messages you exchange with other users through the Service (such as if you post to our forums).

You may choose to voluntarily provide other information to us that we do not request, and, in such instances, you are solely responsible for such information.



1. B. Information Collected Automatically.

Where possible, information will be obtained directly from You. However, You acknowledge that by accessing or making use of any of the Website or Services, information may also be collected from You automatically as a result of the function of the Website or Services and the underlying systems and software. The categories of information we automatically collect, and have collected in the past 12 months, include:

- Service Use Data, including data about features you use, pages you visit, emails and advertisements you view, products and services you view and purchase, the date and time of day you browse, and your referring and exiting pages.

- Device Data, including data about the type of device or browser you use, your device's operating software, your internet service provider, your browser and any search engine used by You, Your device's regional and language settings, and device identifiers such as IP address and Ad Id, and telemetry details.

- Location Data, including imprecise location data (such as location derived from an IP address or data that indicates a city or postal code level).

- Crash Report Data, including a reference to Your member account, a portion of the memory state of the Last Epoch game You were playing when the crash occurred and the game settings You were using.

The types of tracking technologies we use to automatically collect information include:

- Log Files, which are files that record events that occur in connection with your use of the Service.

- Cookies, which are alphanumeric identifiers which are transferred to Your computer's hard drive through Your web browser to enable Eleventh Hour Games to recognize You whenever You access the Website and therefore better personalize Your access to and use of the Website and Services. A cookie does not identify You personally but it does identify Your computer. The help portion of Your browser's toolbar should tell You how to prevent Your browser from accepting new cookies, how to have the browser notify You when You receive a new cookie, or how to disable cookies altogether. You should note however that if You do not allow the use of cookies or do not wish to provide certain information to Eleventh Hour Games, You may not be able to take full advantage of the Website and Services.

- Pixels (also known as web beacons), which is code** embedded in a website, video, email, or advertisement that sends information about your use to a server. There are various types of pixels, including image pixels (which are small graphic images) and JavaScript pixels (which contains JavaScript code). When you access a website, video, email, or advertisement that contains a pixel, the pixel may permit us or a separate entity to drop or read cookies on your browser. Pixels are used in combination with cookies to track activity by a particular browser on a particular device. We may incorporate pixels from separate entities, including Facebook, that allow us to track our conversions, bring you advertising both on and off the Service, and provide you with additional functionality, such as the ability to connect our Service with your social media account.

- Device Fingerprinting, which is the process of analyzing and combining sets of data elements from your device's browser, such as JavaScript objects and installed fonts, to create a "fingerprint" of your device and uniquely identify your browser and device.

- App Technologies, which are technologies included in our apps that are not browser-based like cookies and cannot be controlled by browser settings. For example, our apps may include SDKs, which is code that sends information about your use to a server, for instance through the Facebook SDK. These SDKs allow us to track our conversions, bring you advertising both on and off the Service, and provide you with additional functionality, such as the ability to connect our Service with your social media account.

- Location-Identifying Technologies, which are technologies used to collect your location. For example, GPS, WiFi, and Bluetooth may be used to collect precise location data when you consent to precise location tracking through our apps. Location data may be used for purposes such as verifying your device's location and delivering or restricting relevant content and advertising based on that location.

For further information on how we use tracking technologies for analytics and advertising, and your rights and choices regarding them, see the "Analytics and Advertising" and "Your Rights and Choices" sections below.

1. C. Information from Other Sources.

We also collect information from other sources. The categories of sources from which we collect information include:

- Data Brokers from which we purchase data to supplement the data we collect.
- Social networks with which you interact.

- Partners that offer co-branded services, sell or distribute our products, such as Steam, or engage in joint marketing activities.

- Publicly-available sources, including data in the public domain.

So yeah. That's some straight up, hardcore spyware. You are wrong. It goes way beyond what most game EULAs I've seen do.

so... you are just trolling or Crying for the sake of it, if you dont understand simple data storing and gathering that Company NEED to do.

[Tally]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Deathspider12:

so... you are just trolling or Crying for the sake of it, if you dont understand simple data storing and gathering that Company NEED to do.

Can you explain why a games company NEED to purchase information from social media and data brokers?

[Guardfather]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Deathspider12:

so... you are just trolling or Crying for the sake of it, if you dont understand simple data storing and gathering that Company NEED to do.

They do not need to do that. Period. Games were produced (and often more completely, with greater quality) for decades before any of that tracking technology was in use.

There are basics that are to be expected for account registration, purchases, moderation functions, and crash reports. That's reasonable.

It is not reasonable, necessary, or morally acceptable to lure people into installing spyware by wrapping it up with a fun game and tucking away a bunch of legalese in a document most people, especially gamers, don't have the patience or education to understand the implications of.

[Raiden - In Flames 🎵]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Guardfather:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von InsertCoin:

nope :)

Care to elaborate on how?

nope :)

[Raiden - In Flames 🎵]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Guardfather:

Does it actually straight up tell us that the company is harvesting extremely personal data not just from visiting the site, or device hardware IDs, or tracking pixels (all these things are covered), but also getting more data about users from data brokers AND snooping on your favorites (bookmarks?) and search engine choice?

wtf. Is this game some straight up spyware?

got something to hide?