In Praise of Scrambled Continents

[Strategikal]

Okay, we've had the slag-off thread, so how about a thread discussing the good points of this DLC instead?

Yep, I bought it and I really like it. Maybe it's a bit pricey for what it is, but these are more than "just a few map scripts". Unlike truly random maps, the coastlines of the continents have had to be designed for each of the different map sizes. Unfortunately, not all map sizes are available for each continent. For reference, here's a list:

Earth (Duel/Tiny/Small/Standard/Large/Huge) - 6
Western Europe (Sm/St) - 2
East Asia (Sm/L) - 2
Middle East (D/T/Sm/St/L) - 5
Africa (D/Sm/St/L) - 4
North America (D/T/Sm/St/L/H) - 6
South America (T/St) - 2
Antarctica Thawed (St) - 1

Additionally there are two new random maps, Oceania (similar to Archipelago but with more of a continental feel) and Small Continents Plus (with sprawling island chains and better continents)

So, there are actually 28 semi-random maps and 2 random maps, making a total of 30 new maps in this pack. Of the semi-random maps, only the World map and North America are available in all 6 map sizes.

One criticism was that "there are already random maps in the game". True, but none like this. Random maps are completely random, but these are constrained by fixed continent shapes. So you know in advance what the outline of the land will be but not the terrain details within. This gives you the pleasure of exploring unknown terrain within a world that has a plausible shape.

The problem with random map generators is that they often produce illogical maps. Probably my knowledge of geography, geology, climate etc, makes me overly fussy about these things, but many random maps make no sense to me. Some encourage interesting gameplay but many do not IMO.

For this reason, I usually use the random map generator in the SDK to generate an interesting map before starting a game. It usually takes many iterations to come up with a good one. Unfortunately, I then have pre-existing knowledge of the map before I start playing on it, which largely ruins the exploration aspect of the game.

A good or bad map can make or break a game IMO. I've often abandoned games after sufficient exploration has revealed that the map was rubbish. I don't enjoy playing on bad maps. I want to play on good maps, but still be able to enjoy exploring them too.

Scrambled Continents seems to give me the best of both worlds. I know in advance that the continent shapes will be realistic, but I still have the pleasure of exploring the unknown terrain within. This concept only goes a little bit further than randomising the resources on a fixed map, which in itself makes realistic maps unrealistic.

As I found out when I checked a few of these maps, the terrain isn't totally random, it's randomised within certain logical constraints, so you still get the right type of terrain for the latitude, e.g. deserts and jungles in the right general area.

In the game I played on the North America map, the terrain types were still what I'd generally expect, e.g. tundra in the north, plenty of grasslands and forests, mountains in the west, deserts and plains further south. But the exact placement of the terrain and rivers was different from reality. So while it still "felt" like North America, it wasn't totally predictable, so I was able to have fun exploring it.

It seems to me that the world map might be ideal for a Terra type game, where all the civs start in Europe, Asia and Africa, and later explore the "new world" (although I'm not sure that's possible with this script). The random Terra script never produces maps that I'm happy with, but fixed world maps are too predictable for my liking. This World map could produce the best of both worlds (I haven't checked its accuracy) - a realistic overall world shape but with plenty of random terrain to explore within it. Any ideas how to make a Terra style game on this map? It doesn't seem to be editable in the SDK.

[pannicatack]

Ah. Okay, that makes more sense. Before I was just completely confused as to what this was offering and what the point of it was. Thanks for clarifying.

Maybe I'll pick this up during the winter sale.

[Twelvefield]

In 200 million years, when the continents collide again to form the next Pangaea, I bet there will be tons of angry rant threads talking about how unrealistic the Scrambled Continents DLC really is.

I will wait for a sale. Maybe not 200 million years, but probably the Winter Sale if not before. Scrambled Countries is also on the way, although I can't figure out what that DLC is supposed to do. But it will have Canada, so that's an insta-buy right there.

[Strategikal]

Scrambled Nations sounds like exactly the same thing, but with smaller countries like the UK and Japan rather than large continents.

I agree they are a bit pricey for what they are. I would have waited for a sale but I wanted to try the first one straight away, and I don't regret buying it.

[King Kek]

I have a problem; maybe you can help me with it. When I use the Scrambled Continents DLC no Luxury resources spawn. Literally none. I've used IGE to scout the entire map; it will not spawn a single Luxury resource. Occasionally it will spawn Stone and other resources that aren’t luxuries but through multiple tests I have not been able to get it to spawn in Luxury resources.

[Strategikal]

Very strange! I haven't had that problem. I just generated a standard earth map just to check and there were plenty of luxuries around. No idea what could be causing this.

Are you using any mods that add or modify luxuries in any way? If so, maybe they aren't compatible with the map script? Have you tested it on a non modded game?

[City Builder]

Bought it on greenmangaming using their 20% off coupon listed on their front page for $1.60 so anybody that's interested but doesn't want to wait on the winter sale.... Yes, they give you the steam key to register it on your steam account.

[stanitw]

This is the first DLC since Vanilla came out that I haven't bought yet, and always I would within 48 hours. Part of it is because I'm currently involved in a game and partly because the idea didn't excite me as much as the previous DLC. But the idea has grown on me and I will purchase them both as soon as I finish my current game.

One note on "plausible shapes" for the worlds. The shape of our planet can't be said to be "plausible" either. You're just too familiar with it's features and so you project your expectations onto the game's maps.

[Strategikal]

Originally posted by stanitw:

One note on "plausible shapes" for the worlds. The shape of our planet can't be said to be "plausible" either. You're just too familiar with it's features and so you project your expectations onto the game's maps.

On the contrary, our planet's landforms are extremely plausible. Sure, there are random elements, but plate tectonics, faultlines, volcanoes, wind patterns, ocean currents, all influence the way that landforms develop. Deserts, jungles and so on, don't exist randomly, they are where they are for very specific reasons. For example, India crashing into Asia created the Himalayas, which disrupts wind patterns, causing monsoons and flooding in Bangladesh and deserts to the northwest. Tectonic plates sliding over hotspots create a line of volcanoes that result in island chains like Hawaii and the Canary Isles. The Gulf Stream makes the climate of Britain warmer than it should be for its latitude. The shape of west Africa fits South America perfectly. And so on...

Geology, geomorphology, climatology - fascinating subjects! Yeah, there are a lot of "random seeds" involved, but the way Earth's landforms have evolved is extremely predictable, unlike practically every Civ map I've ever seen! :-)

I recommend the PerfectWorld3 mod if you want plausible terrain, it's the best I've seen so far at doing a reasonable job of simulating some of these factors (like mountain ranges creating a "rain shadow" resulting in a desert).

Scrambled maps are fun, but not that plausible, for example, flat land in Scotland isn't consistent with the shape of the coastline.

Oh by the way, I'm not saying that the earth's continents couldn't be very different in shape, and you're right that we are overly familiar with them, but the way earth's landforms have evolved are extremely plausible.

[inahut]

Waste of money.
There is no reason to spend money to buy this when it is inferior to the best free maps and map scripts available in the workshop. It only costs time to try the map and map script mods in the workshop so as to find one or two or more that are very worthwhile and entirely enjoyable to play, including the full featured quality of many of these mods in that they permit circumnavigation, that is, they permit you to enjoy the oceans and the naval possibilities of Civ5 instead of landlocking you like the retail maps in this Scrambled Continents package.
Yes I purchased this item and regret it. I have played more than a thousand hours of this game and this purchase is the biggest waste of money so far. I suspect the other Scrambled item now available is just as worthless.
I am not meaning to offend those of you who find this a worthwhile purchase but my opinion is that anyone who does not now own it ought to avoid wasting the money it costs to buy it.

[Danny]

I agree with everything you said. I was skeptical with spending 5 dollars on them though so I read a thread saying GMG sales was a totla of 90% off after a voucher and the sale. Id say it was definately worth the $1.60, although I like it for the reasons you stated above.

And like you I do hate the really random maps the game can produce due to its unrealism at times Lol

Really wish the woulda let us circumnavigate the map though. I dislike it when we are not allowed to do so on some cool maps

[Strategikal]

Originally posted by inahut:

Waste of money.

Only if you don't like it. A worthwhile purchase if you do. It's just a matter of opinion. I like it, and Scrambled Nations. I think the Antarctica map is great, and Australia.

I agree that some of these maps have stupid cut-off points, preventing sailing around the top of Great Britain for instance, or from the Indian Ocean to the Pacific on the Asia map.

[rancer890]

Paid $4 for this DLC and don't regret it at all. I like playing on Earth maps and this scrambled nations DLC help me know where I am in the world, but also give me some unknown and it's a lot more worth it to explore.