Terrible starting wand really needs replacing.

[Misery]

At first I was playing this game constantly. Now, I barely touch it, and these weak spells on that stupid starting wand are the entire reason. It turns the early-game into a sleep-inducing slog if a better weapon isnt found *immediately*. I find myself jumping into runs, not fighting anything (since it just takes forever and is really boring with that wand), not caring one bit about taking damage, ONLY focused on finding a wand that DOES SOMETHING so I can get to the part that isnt brain-meltingly dull. I genuinely dont even care if the wand I do find is one of those ultra-risky ones that could end the run at any time... it at least has a freaking effect, and that's better than the alternative. If I do not find an "actually does something" wand quick enough.... or if the game starts to do that thing where it just generates more equally-sad wands (or only gives me utility wands), I restart out of pure frustration (though even if I dont, the end result is always the same). After about 15 minutes of this, I'll have had enough, and it'll be days before I touch the game again. I've often found myself thinking about playing more Noita, but then the thought that follows is always "but I'd have to do THAT again. Let's just go play absolutely anything else instead". And indeed, that all happened just now. Spent about 15 minutes with it, didnt find any wands that had an actual combat use, got bored, and I"m just done. Likely it'll be awhile before I play it again. For now, just not interested.

I seriously cant imagine why in the world that starting wand is even like that. It does not make the first level more difficult... the fights are simply boring and dragged out, and certain foes take so ridiculously long to defeat that there's no point in bothering with them. The idea of going around and collecting gold for later via combat just results in me going "uuuuuuuugh I dont want to do that" and... indeed not doing that. Not unless I find a wand that actually accomplishes something.

The whole thing makes me think of a certain thing that happens in Binding of Isaac. Sometimes, while playing as Eden, the game will generate really pathetic starting stats (since Eden is focused around random starting builds), where killing ANYTHING takes 5 eternities. It is very dull, but it is also quite rare. This is like that.... except it's EVERY time, instead of only happening rarely and only with one specific character.

Doesnt help that certain other spells are every bit as weak (like that green bouncing shot), so finding a wand with them feels like the game is just outright trolling.

I've heard some players say that finding a wand with the right stats and putting the crap bolts into that can result in a sort of junky machine gun that is at least a little better, but.... that still doesnt solve the problem of how bad the first level is, and doesnt address the core issue whatsoever.

I'm not saying we need to start with some sort of nuke wand or something. Just something a little better. Give a spell like that arrow thing that does about 10 damage instead. It's still not a good spell, but that first level is dramatically improved simply by finding a wand that uses that. It is at least a spell appropriate for the early game but without all the tedium.


There, I'm done venting.

Bah.

[IIIFGIII]

IMO - starting wands is not terrible.

1 - Kind of "balanced starter wand", allow player to shot enough precise and enough frequently. Not killed starter enemies with one shot but have crit chance. What is very important it is " not random " spells wand - so allow to create combined spells even if player don't find other " not random" wand.

2 - With spells Chainsaw or Digging Bolt become "Must have" digging tool because of absolute imba recharge and cast delay . Also can be very useful with other "0 mana" spells like Water, Acid and etc. Can be used even as not so bad attack wand with spells like Stark Bolt or Bouncing Burst.

No need to simplify game too much and give something much powerful at start. Player need to have motivation to looking for some better spells and wands.

[Jpc1023]

I mean it is the starting wand do you really except something powerful as your basic tool

[SilentCaay]

The first level is fine. None of the enemies tank the starter wand aside from maybe the fire imps but they aren't that common and you can just run from them or try to bomb them. If you haven't found a good wand by the second level then it gets a bit more difficult.

That said, alternate characters with different loadouts would be nice.

[CrazyGoblin]

The imps also take massive damage from water, so if you're frisky with a flask or get lucky enough to find some sort of water-producing spell early on you can chew them up.

Also, if you haven't found *any* combat wands before level 2, you can get a little more use out of the starters by slotting spark bolt into the bomb wand. The recharge is lower, sure, but the firerate lets you burst most things down in a pinch. Chainsaw/digging is of course preferred, but beggars and choosers eh?


I don't really think the starter wands are bad per se, they are after all "starter wands"... But what I do feel is that they can be awfully demoralizing to look at when you've started outside the mountain yet again after your last ultra-hip-cool-awesome lootrun with a bunch of neat spell and wand combos got summarily ended by RNGesus giving you a slap with the ol' pimp hand. They're not bad (for their place in the game), so much as they are dull and familiar.

Some amount of randomization or choice would be very much appreciated, to make the early legs a bit more varied and keep spirits up while we lick the mental wounds of a 5-hour run getting eaten by an ambush bolt of blindness.

[HighTierMortal]

If you really want to make some quick money while skipping most of the first floor, just put some bombs in places with a lot of gold ore to farm cash and then hope theres a wand shop in the holy mountain. Apart from that, like the others already said, 90% of floor enemies die to 2-4 hits from the starter wand, so actually killing enemies isnt that hard imo unless you encounter a bunch of spiders.

[RedWormCharlie]

I think the starting wand sucks. I would love to see a set you can choose from, or random starting wands.

[Misery]

It's seriously not a matter of how many hits an individual enemy takes in each individual combat encounter.... that's not the point. It's also not a matter of them being "hard". That... is also not the point.

It's a matter of how much time it all adds up to. All those enemies taking more hits than they should, again INDIVIDUALLY that doesnt matter, but each one adds more and more onto how long an already bland level takes since there are so very many of them. And again, the thing is: It doesnt make these enemies harder. They're still.... very easy. All of them. The only thing that seems maybe dangerous sometimes is that fire jerk (and fighting THAT with the starter wand is an utter waste of time, so that's irrelevant, I just ignore that guy), but other than that... it's not exactly an exciting or challenging place to begin with. So, slowing that down even further by dropping in a 3-damage junk wand (in a game where LOTS of things are tanky) is just.... pointless. It's pointless.

The fact that you then have to go through that all EVERY SINGLE BLOODY TIME just kills the whole thing as far as I'm concerned. I'm sorry, but it's freaking BORING.

Honestly, at this point, I'd sooner just cheat a less terrible wand into the start of the game (literally every time), than keep going with... that thing. It just... makes... everything... take... freaking forever. And for me to say that is really something else.... normally I dont even consider cheating a run in a game like this. It's THAT boring.

Speaking of which: I dont suppose there IS a way to just cheat that bloody thing away? Just gimme that 10-damage arrow spell (since again, that seems appropriate enough for the start of the game) or whatever it is and I could tolerate the first zone again. It'd still be kinda dull, but it'd be so much better than the dead-snail pace that level currently goes at when a new wand is not immediately found. Chances are, this is exactly what I'll try to find a way to do. Absolutely haaaaate that as a solution, but I'd find the game actually playable again.

But for right now I dont know of anything like that, so.... yeah, I've lost all interest. It's just too long, and too boring, every single bloody time. At this point I've already just gone back to Isaac. At least there, poor Eden doesnt ALWAYS start with the equivalent of the boredom stick.

Originally posted by CrazyGoblin:

Also, if you haven't found *any* combat wands before level 2, you can get a little more use out of the starters by slotting spark bolt into the bomb wand. The recharge is lower, sure, but the firerate lets you burst most things down in a pinch. Chainsaw/digging is of course preferred, but beggars and choosers eh?

This I'm aware of, but by the time I get there, if I seriously have STILL not found something, I am, by that point, so absurdly frustrated that I'm in a "just delete the game" sort of mood, so I'll usually just say "screw it" and stop. I *seriously* dont deal with tedium well. (obviously I dont ACTUALLY delete it, but that's usually how I feel at that point)

Usually though my patience snaps well before that point, so I dont think I've even once taken that stupid thing into area 2. Just... just no.

[thebadman]

A little bit of blood and you can boost many of your shots x5. Add zerk for another x2.

[Mikivus]

I wonder how many of Noita community thinks same way. Only weak thing here is OP, sadly, starting wand is balanced and you can easily clear mines and coalmines with it. actually you can wind your way with it up to hissi base

[The Mongoose]

Put bolt spell in bomb wand.
I made it to floor 4 with that as my primary damage dealer.

If you dont like the first level. Get 200 gold and leave quickly.
You dont have to kill everything.

[ReallyWillyNilly]

WAAAAA WAAAAA WAAAAAAAAAAA. That's all I'm seeing in your post.

[Linel]

I have a few problems with the game and the starting wands aren't any of them. It really doesn't take so long to get through the first level at all. Your problem might be less an issue of the wands doing low damage and more that you're trying to find and fight every enemy. Thats not really worthwhile.

[Papa Smurf]

Dude what is your attention span. There are people beating this game in 10 minutes, and you're complaining that you had to shoot some enemies? Then dont. There are a lot of ways to play the game, and if you just want a dank ass combat wand to slay the critters with then you're going to have to find it or earn it, which also isnt too difficult. Get 200 gold and buy a wand. Thats 10-20 enemies. I really dont understand.

Alternatively, do the daily run. You always start with a more interesting wand or two instead of spending 90 seconds finding one.

[Papa Smurf]

Or be like this guy and only kick things
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZZK7GXwIC4

[Uriel]

I think the starting wand is perfectly balanced. It gives you all the tools you need at the beginning to be able to find a new one, as you can explore and fully clear the first 2 stages with ease. It really doesn't need to do anything else and you really don't spend much time with it anyway.