The Writing In This Game............

[DiESF1RST]

This is but a small portion of my suggestion post (not yet released) but I figured I'd post just this bit separately as I continue to work on the full suggestions post... it is massive in comparison to this (6 pages single spaced size10 font on word)

Bad writing can destroy a game.

The largest problem I have have with Subnautica Below Zero is the writing.

I believe making the avatar for this game a distinct character (as opposed to the vessel of the first game) is a bold choice, but I do not believe this an incorrect choice. I rather like that Robin actually has speaking lines, but as of now the biggest problem I have with her is HOW she is written.

I mean no offense by this but Robin seems to be written in such a way to appeal to a specific demographic of persons (mainly millennials), and unfortunately this specific demographic shouldn't be your target audience. Your target audience should be the demographic of people who play your game, or those who play survival games (this is your ideal target audience). I have difficulty relating and sympathising with Robin in any way and I’m sure the majority of the playbase takes issue with her writing as well. I understand the idea here was to portray Robin as a strong and independent female character, but the personality she was given is one little to no players could ever empathize with. Robin (after 9 hours of play) doesn't appear to take her situation seriously... at all... not even once from what I've experienced of her so far... She approaches and/or addresses every situation with a nonchalant attitude which comes across as frustrating for me, especially after moments of soaking in the beautiful environments and becoming immersed in the game world's environment. She calls for confrontations a bluffs superiority in situations that NO HUMAN IN ANY GIVEN SITUATION would result to.

Again, this character is in a situation where her life is constantly in danger. So much so she has to acquire her own food and water, has tro build a shelter, and constantly hoard resources just to maintain being alive. The writing of her dialog and character greatly suggests none of that matters and should not be taken seriously.

Let's look at a few examples of what I mean:

[Dialog block 03:]

ALIEN FACILITY: Warning: Access denied. Further efforts will be denied forcefully. Concede, Robin Goodball."
ROBIN: "How do you know my name?! I come in peace!"

This block of dialog basically defines how Robin's writing will remain. She reacts as though this is first contact with any alien presence, but does not have any appropriate reaction fitting to the setting and situation. There are a lot of plot elements here that are introduced in a number of ways, and these plot elements tell us the audience how the character should react in this situation. Everything about the situation which the audience can make tells us Robin should be in both shock and awe, caution should be her utmost priority but we aren't shown that. Instead what we are given is a snappy comeback that (if written properly) would be a rational response. Nearly all of Robin's dialog (throughout the game thus far) is written to be snark and I believe this to be a poor direction for this character's writing. I'm not suggesting this character have absolutely no snark at all, but I am suggesting this character have the appropriate reactions and responses when a given plot point and/or situation demands it (I already covered an alternative in The Opening Sequences section).

Personality is good, even the current snark is somewhat fine, just prioritize reasonable reactions and dialog over playing to her character trope/type.

The true problem comes from later writings of Robin’s character, problems which upset me personally because of just how bad her character was butchered.

Consider this encounter: (this occurs when Robin enters the sanctuary within the bridge biome)

ALIEN: “Download complete. You have no concept of what has just occured.”
ROBIN: “I know it hurt. What just happened?”

Starting here: Why is this Robin’s reaction/response to learning some sort of alien presence is inhabiting her brain? Why does she react to this one discovery as though its no big deal at all? Has she read the script of the game? Does she no she’s in no real danger? Why is it the person we the player is playing reacts to an unknown alien presence as though its little more than an annoying house pet?

Furthermore, why does Robin (and the audience) need to be told that we have no concept of what just occurred? Would it not be better to simply not explain what what just happened? Or better yet, not highlight that something happened in the first place? Why must the audience be told how feel about a sequence rather than letting us feeling ourselves? Immersion, wonder, mystery… all of this is shattered writing the first line spoken here.

Who wrote this? This is not the person you all at Unknown Worlds should have writing your scripts.

ALIEN: “Download capacity was identified in your cerebral cortex.”

This line makes no sense AT ALL. If the Alien need to explain that which ‘You have no concept of what has just occured’, then have the Alien say something along the lines of: “Operational data has been encoded to your cerebral cortex.” The original line comes across as someone failing to write sophisticated and intelligent dialog while having no idea about jargon.

Again, who wrote this? This is not the person you all at Unknown Worlds should have writing your scripts.

ROBIN: “You’re in my head?!”
ALIEN: “It is uncomfortable. Return me.”

At this point, there is no tension in this story, nothing in game is going to be taken seriously, thus leaving a player annoyed and frustrated. Robin just had an alien intelligence beamed into her brain, regardless of whether she’s aware of that, reacts as though its merely a misunderstanding. Then the next line spoken… “It is uncomfortable. Return me.” Was this meant to be funny? In a game about surviving the elements and environment where you the player is at a constant disadvantage… is this sequence really the tone setter for this game?

WHO… WROTE… THIS? This is not the person you all at Unknown Worlds should have writing your scripts. This is not a person who has any business writing dialog for literally anything which relies on immersion and intrigue! THE EXECUTION OF THIS SEQUENCE THUS FAR IS EXTREMELY INAPPROPRIATE!

ROBIN: “Release the force fields first.”
ALIEN: “Return me, or I will destroy your orbital station.”
ROBIN: “Why not do it now?”

ROBIN: “Why not do it now?”

Family, friends, and colleagues are all aboard the orbital station. Robin has just discovered that an alien presence of unknown origin, unknown power, and unknown abilities. Received a threat against the lives of all who reside on that orbital station, and her immediate response is basically to say “I dare you to do it”. WHO… WROTE… THIS? What type of character is Robin meant to be? Is she supposed to be an empathetic psychopath or are we players supposed to see this as strong and empowered? Think about this devs: How could this character possibly strong and empowered when she’s just had an alien intelligence encoded to her brain without her consent? Why does Robin not assume the aliens who just had her brain encoded with an intelligence will likely have the capability to destroy an orbital station? WHY IS THIS HER IMMEDIATE REACTION?

W H O - W R O T E - T H I S ? ? ? ? ?

Honestly there's no need to go further from here in dissecting the dialog.

Robin’s character effects how the player feels about her, and this is affected by how she treats a situation. The character that has been written is clearly written to appeal to a demographic rather than written to play a specific role in a survival horror setting. These people do not care for consistency, they do not care for writing, they not care for respect, and when an aspect of a product is designed to appeal to a demographic, that aspect must reflect that demographic. This is easily proven by how Robin is written. It is possible to have a strong female character without writing her to be entirely unrelatable and bratty. This character depiction kills immersion.

[DiESF1RST]

Originally posted by StevoP80:

Hmmm.

1. It's EA. I'm pretty sure there is a disclaimer somewhere stating what you see is not indicative of the final product.

2. You state that this is a suggestion post, but proceed to completely trash on the writer, using all caps font and extra spaces, and essentially suggest that they be fired.

3. If your longer suggestion post is anything like this, I look forward to not reading it. At that length I doubt anyone will.

1. We both know that doesnt change the fact of anything ive stated
2. By stating why something is bad and needs to be changed somehow isnt a suggestion of change.
3. Wont stop me from posting it, so this this means nothing to me.

Originally posted by OOF:

no need to dissect even. basically, her character motivations are not realistic nor compelling. she is too idealistic. she doesn't have flaws.

Alone, the fact that she wants to protect this alien voice in her head, simply because it is alive. The universal morality thing as a given is not compelling nor interesting. I mean, let's think about Alterra's identity as an amoral megacorp with questionable ethics (in space -- they can get away with a lot). Would they think twice about vivisecting Robin's skull if that was the only way to gain access to this alien consciousness? The two of them reluctantly working together to save their own skins would be a much more believable and compelling narrative than simply 'robin is a good person doing this out of the kindness of her heart and for no personal benefit.'

Never said anything about her motives, only about HOW her character is written. She can have the exact same motivations while being written better.

Originally posted by KittyKat:

If you think anybody is gonna read your "novel" DiESF1RST I'm pretty sure you're mistaken and the Devs certainly aren't going to take any notice of it either.

Wont stop me from posting it, so this this means nothing to me, or was this supposed to bother me?

Originally posted by Bleep:

i actually agree with you. just not with the "who wrote this" meme.

thats fair. Whether anyone agreed or not I wanted to express some things and while i admit it clearly got out of hand, i do stand by my words here.

Originally posted by Etherealtroll:

I quite like it to be honest. I dont know what sort of scripting you are looking for, do you want her to run around waving her arms in a panic? She chose this mission, she is excited and looking forward to possible alien contact. She seems intelligent enough to understand the aliens threat was lack luster right off the bat, I mean, why would it threaten to kill them all after just explaining it wanted to trap them and have them die slowly?

It is just the start of development and they will likely make a few changes, personally I hope they dont change too much of what I have seen so far because as I said already, I like it.

I'm not naive to how these things pan out... I've seen many devs state things to be in ea and those things never get altered or fixed. I've learned not to take the ea thing to mean things will change for the better... honestly i'd rather have my negative expectations met than to have my positive expectations shattered.

And no, i dont expect Robin to wave her arms around, like a bat out of hell, but i had expected a human being to display human behaviors... it doesnt matter (as others here have stated) that she comes from the far future, where aspects of human life may as well be different... but nothing about a human's primal needs (like self preservation) will ever fade to the obscurities of time. Its not happening. You see your base of operations get buried, leaving you stuck in a seemingly hostile environment... you are not going to be casual and snarky about it... strong character or not....

Originally posted by Denim Chicken:

Originally posted by StevoP80:

Hmmm.

1. It's EA. I'm pretty sure there is a disclaimer somewhere stating what you see is not indicative of the final product.

2. You state that this is a suggestion post, but proceed to completely trash on the writer, using all caps font and extra spaces, and essentially suggest that they be fired.

3. If your longer suggestion post is anything like this, I look forward to not reading it. At that length I doubt anyone will.

It's well written and It's good feedback for the devs. Not for you...

DiESF1RST was suggesting improvement to some pretty questionable behaviour to the main character. But... how would you know if you didn't read it?

Denim Chicken got it correct... this is feedback for the devs... whether the devs choose to heed or read, its whatever... anyone else's opinion to my 'novel' as 1 person calls it... i couldnt care any less tbh....

Originally posted by Ａｎｈｅｄａ:

Originally posted by KittyKat:

If you think anybody is gonna read your "novel" DiESF1RST I'm pretty sure you're mistaken and the Devs certainly aren't going to take any notice of it either.

tbh id love to see a dev to reply to you "oh you silly, where did you get that idea" rn :'D
(im not saying that i disagree with the whole argument but neither do i agree with itm i just want to see where the devs are going with the story and judge it based on that later on)

Same... honestly my best moments in this game are those where the characters arent talking... not because it semi revives the loneliness of the 1st game, but the fact i'm not hearing such awful writing. everything else about the game i absolutely love and I want to see this game succeed in all aspects.

Originally posted by Cougarific:

I mean if you're seriously asking Who wrote this? Tom Jubert is a highly respected writer for games including The Talos Principle, FTL and The Swapper.

He graduated top of his class from Univ. of Southampton majoring in Computer Science and Literature and holds a Master's Degree in Philosophy.

That said, I agree that there's some sloppiness here that I'm confident will be tidied up during development.

IMHO the voice actor's DIRECTION is as much to blame as any other issue. The actors themselves are fine, the script will be fine in time, it all just needs a little more maturity, complexity and solemnity in the deliveries.

I hope this dialog gets fixed before 1.0... thats all I want... just fix the writing... and honestly if Tom Jubert really has the credit to his name... then I can only blame him for not reviewing the scripts before they went into audio production. Yea, its ea, and these lines may be placeholders, believe me i fully acknowledge this, but this is the first impressions many are going to have with this game...

Originally posted by Analogy:

Lots of good feedback in there. Hopefully it is received by those who can do something with it. I too thought a lot of the same things as I played.

To whoever said "It's EA" as if that's a reason to just ignore weak points in the game... A major reason they're letting people play EA is to get this kind of feedback, numbnuts.

THANK YOU someone understands!!!!

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Originally posted by Yung Venuz:

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ add tl;dr

TL;DR:

OP thinks the protagonist (Robin) is acting like no human would, and several situations in the game shows that she is indeed not responding like normal people like you and I.

My opinion is that because she comes from a time and place where she should be responding differently. Mostly due to Alterra being a superbly powerful company, this likely not being first contact, and the fact that technology makes life super easy and comfortable.
Also new things in life are hard to find and Robin is an extremely intelligent human being and does everything in her capabilities to judge things by herself before handing anything over to Alterra.

" Mostly due to Alterra being a superbly powerful company, this likely not being first contact, and the fact that technology makes life super easy and comfortable."
none of that has anything to do with self preservation... at all... the notion that a company you work for or that you live in the far future with advance tech does not change fundamental primal behaviors in humans... your shelter gets buried under ice and snow, with you stuck exposed to harsh elements... even for mere moments your need to survive will over take your snark.

and besides... if Robin has "waited her entire life" to finally speak to or meet aliens isnt enough of clue to tell you this is indeed something entirely new to her, excuses you can draw from how her current depiction is... is just an excuse. Terrible writing is terrible writing, but it doesnt have to be this way.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

will address separately.

[Yung Venuz]

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Originally posted by Yung Venuz:

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ add tl;dr

TL;DR:

OP thinks the protagonist (Robin) is acting like no human would, and several situations in the game shows that she is indeed not responding like normal people like you and I.

My opinion is that because she comes from a time and place where she should be responding differently. Mostly due to Alterra being a superbly powerful company, this likely not being first contact, and the fact that technology makes life super easy and comfortable.
Also new things in life are hard to find and Robin is an extremely intelligent human being and does everything in her capabilities to judge things by herself before handing anything over to Alterra.

why doesn't he just say that what else does he add?

[DiESF1RST]

Originally posted by Cougarific:

Originally posted by Yung Venuz:

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ add tl;dr

Did you make it as far as the part where he said this was just a small portion of a manuscript he's working on with suggestions for the game?

Can't wait to read that - I'll set aside a few days to get through it.

hahahahahah yea T__T

Originally posted by OOF:

>the reason she doesn't act like a normal human is cuz [specific characteristics of my fictional setting]

This comes off as more of a cope post than it does a sincere attempt at explaining her behavior.

I've seen this sort of thing described as "writing for the writers", its not our job to correct or justify what the devs present us, but some of us are willing to put in the time and effort to help those devs, even if all we are doing is providing feedback... I know for a fact these devs can do better than this... i've seen it so in S1... so I want to seem them do just as well here, if not better.

[DiESF1RST]

Originally posted by Yung Venuz:

why doesn't he just say that what else does he add?

"This is but a small portion of my suggestion post (not yet released) but I figured I'd post just this bit separately as I continue to work on the full suggestions post... it is massive in comparison to this (6 pages single spaced size10 font on word)"

you could just read what I've posted... or not, its for the devs anyway...

(on page 9 now though)

[アレックス]

Originally posted by KittyKat:

If you think anybody is gonna read your "novel" DiESF1RST I'm pretty sure you're mistaken and the Devs certainly aren't going to take any notice of it either.

I actually read his post. The devs, I think, will pay good attention to it considering its a very detailed post with many points of critique. Developers appreciate feedback, good and bad, unlike the community that follows them.

I think his/ her points are valid and i'm certain the developers will digest what was written and perhaps even take them into consideration when furthering the games development

[DiESF1RST]

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Oh boy. Here we go.

Yes indeed :D

Originally posted by Malibloo:

First off, I'm part of the playerbase and I am not bothered by her writing whatsoever.

Thats fine, its nice to know some people can enjoy things without my input on it.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

She's smart, confident, carefree, and from the future. The chance is she's from a society that would culture shock the everliving crap out of you, so I'm not entirely sure why you immediately relate her to a millennial.

Either you hadnt read my OP or you are ignoring the points i’ve made… her being from the future nor having a different culture has nothing to do with the primal instinct of self preservation.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

The devs should make it for their target audience? So, people from the age 20 to 35? Which happen to be millennials?

I’m within 20 to 35 age range… which has nothing to do with any point i’ve made… whatever point you are trying to discredit here is literally clarified in my OP. you could just read what I've posted... or not, its for the devs anyway...

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Anyway, back to Robin. You say she's not taking her situation serious? I say she's having the absolute time of her life, and nothing's going to keep her back.

Which is why i specify the words/phrase “appropriate reactions” so many times… I expect someone with this personality to want to tackle this new world head on… but there are times where a character’s actions and reactions require the appropriate responses… this is not what happens in game. If imn swimming about having a frustrating time catching fish and Robin starts loling and saying “weee” or “wooohooo!” that sort of thing would be great, becuase at the moment “she’s having the absolute time of her life”. HOWEVER, this shouldnt happen immediately after seeing her home being destroyed nor should she have this attitude when an alien intellegence threatens to kill literally everyone she knows… INCLUDING HERSELF… especially when she should have no reason to believe the alien cant do it.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

You think she's not serious in certain situations? I'll repeat what a Dev has said in the discussions: She comes from a time where survival is generally a very easy thing, even in the most hostile of environments.

And i’ll repeat: “her being from the future nor having a different culture has nothing to do with the primal instinct of self preservation.” claiming otherwise is an excuse for poor writing.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Of course in S1 and BZ you have limited resources so it becomes a tad more complicated, but you still have all the super advanced tools. If I had a handheld atom printer and be in the wilderness, I wouldn't be scared in the slightest.

In S1 you had those same exact tools, yet the threat of death was very real… how the player experiences that threat now varies between both S1 and BZ becuase in S1 we the players are superimposed into the role of Ryley, so his experiences were our experiences. With Robin, however, what she experiences is different than what we experience because she has her own agency… which is fine. But when presented a situation where we expect a certain reaction or response, and Robin’s written to have a reaction or response thats so far from any reasonable action, then there’s where the problem arises.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Dialog 3:
I will definitely give you the fact that this part of the dialogue feels a bit off, and could use more nuance, or more specific emotional responses.
However, you seem to not realize several things:
This might not be the first aliens they've come across.

ROBIN: “Ive waited my whole like for this!”
Its a first for her....

Originally posted by Malibloo:

They might have a very specific law when it comes to interacting with aliens. Like always responding with "We come in peace". Even then I can totally imagine her being freaked out about an alien knowing her name when she's never had contact with them before.

Yes, company policy or governing law dictates you exclaim “I come in peace” as you aggressively disregard any protest of your presence and trespass on alien property which had stated your presence was welcomed… Please bring up how the alien changing its mind about how it wants her to stay with it so i can tell you how half-assed that writing is.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Personally I think this should fall into her cunning and intellect and immediately realize this creature is telepathic, or perhaps has been spying on them.

This is something i’d be willing to accept, though it was never hinted at. You may infer that it doesnt need to be, but i would say the same exact plot point was used throughout S1 and was constantly alluded to and shown.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Additionally, I think the game; with how short it is so far, has shown pretty clearly how headstrong Robin is! So it should come to no surprise that she would jump into any situation blind and takes it from there. People need flaws to be believable.

Flaws also carried with them both compromises and consequences… both of which Robin never has, shows, nor experiences. You want to say Robin jumps into situations blind? Fine, then have her experience the consequences of her actions.

In S1 Ryley jumped into every blind as well, and the consequence for doing so was to get eye crawlers and wrappers sicked on him.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Download:
They already know about the alien presence in that area thanks to S1, and I'm sure Alterra and a bunch of other places have given her the full rundown of what one might find on that planet.
Additionally, this isn't the first place they found, remember? In the very beginning you find an entrance, so she doesn't have much of a "wow" factor anymore. A simple "Wow" would be fitting when she enters the room with the huge flying cube, but I reckon this is all still very basic and mostly placeholder material.

No, she didnt have a wow moment at the first research site… in fact, she had a ‘wow, the place is talking! Its never done that before”...moment, soooooo……….

Originally posted by Malibloo:

If I had to guess, I would say that the "No concept" line is simply there to make things sound jarring, or more alien. I personally agree that it's a very off sentence, but I figured it fitted perfectly well.

Not everyone is ok with being talked down to in condescending tones. The line wasn't simply jarring, it was entirely unnecessary
.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Additionally, the AI might be trying to look smarter and more capable than it really is. Which would fit into the paradigm of telling Robin that she wouldn't understand.

That kind of garbage writing might fly in game thats not predicated on the horrors of survival and mystery, but S1 and BZ are games predicated on the horrors of survival and mystery. The key term here is ‘tone’... and it is ‘tonally inconsistent’ in a game predicated on the horrors of survival and mystery that an alien AI need to act tough and capable… just kills the immersion with that in the back of mind, doesnt it?

Originally posted by Malibloo:

As for Robin's response, she's still alive, so no real reason to panic. Other than that, I imagine she's fascinated and already started psycho-analyzing Al-an.

So she’s a mary-sue… knows when an alien ai is bluffing her, knows how it thinks, knows its useless without her… hell at this point she probably knows the plot and script of the game huh?... and this is okay writing because…..?

Tension? Mystery? Intrigue? Doubt those DLCs are coming anytime soon…

Sarcasm aside… don't excuse poor writing… it only hurts whatever argument or rebuttal you’re trying to make.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Cerebral cortex:
I got nothing here, you make a good point that the sentences make no sense when compared. The only thing I could think of is that it was just Al-an trying to sound smart, and then even sound smarter, but is continuously shooting itself in the digital foot.

Al-an cant write his own dialog… blame the game’s writers. They are the one’s failing to seem smart. This sort of writing, especially for this line in reference, is why i believe Code Geass to be one of the worst animes in existence… all about trying (and failing) to seem smart. I cant imagine any engineer liking that show. (im ECS-IT btw)

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Destroy the orbital station:
To me it was pretty obvious that Robin immediately figured out that this AI wasn't as powerful as it made itself out to be. If they could've shot the orbital station out of the sky, it would've already happened.

Why?.... Why would it have done so sooner? How? How did she figure anything about an AI just got in her head damn near nano-seconds ago? What gave that away? What was the clue? There’s a dozen or 2 questions that can be asked about this and every one of them will likely be met with a half-assed ‘just cause’ or a answered with a shrug of the shoulders.

I am curious about your answers though, i will admit there could have been something i missed.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

If you're asking me what kind of character she's supposed to be, I'd have to answer with: She's intelligent as eff. I'm pretty sure she has the equivalent of a PhD in that time for psychology and everything related to that. She has to if she wants to understand and communicate with aliens.

if the learning of aliens and their communications and interactions is Robin’s there for, then a PhD in psychology is worthless… maybe a PhD in Linguistics, and or something in the family of Biology and Physiology would serve much better. The file “the Arrival” is an excellent example of how those degrees would serve alien contact… even though that movie is dumb in execution… neat concept though.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

Finally:
I'll definitely agree that a certain few lines could have been said with a different emotion behind it, and that a few other sentences could change its wording, but all in all I absolutely loved the story, it pulled me right in, and nothing caused instant disbelief or anything alike.

Thats cool. I never said you nor anyone had to dislike the writing.

Originally posted by Malibloo:

EDIT: When rereading this to fix the small mistakes I realized that there's one person one could compare Robin to. Which is The Doctor, from Doctor Who. Always lively. Always optimistic. Always curious. And always nice until the situation would get really dire. I would not be surprised if inspiration was taken from that.

While im no avid watcher of Dr Who, I do know he is a character who is aware that he has multiple lives, so the majority of his adventures he has little reason to fear death. Robin does not have that… but if Dr should be used as inspiration (or any character for that matter), then that character should be fully studied. Every aspect: what makes them tick, why are they themself, what are their influences, what are their philosophies, why do they have those philosophies, etc… There's so much to study on a single character its mind blowing, but fully fledged characters can be dissected. If the Dr was an influence, then his notion of bravery would be justified by the existence of multiple lives.

I don't think her character should be changed, just how that character is written should change. She could still be that girl whose lifting to the fullest… but still, could be written better.

[DiESF1RST]

Originally posted by Blu3:

Originally posted by KittyKat:

If you think anybody is gonna read your "novel" DiESF1RST I'm pretty sure you're mistaken and the Devs certainly aren't going to take any notice of it either.

I actually read his post. The devs, I think, will pay good attention to it considering its a very detailed post with many points of critique. Developers appreciate feedback, good and bad, unlike the community that follows them.

I think his/ her points are valid and i'm certain the developers will digest what was written and perhaps even take them into consideration when furthering the games development

the large post is like this, full of details, examples, and labored explanations, but without the 'writing with frustration"... I am much more respectable in the large post... its about half done too now that i've sunk 3 days into it :D

[Shoebsy]

You lost me at "millenials"

[Cougarific]

I know Tom is active here on these Discussions and I'm sure he'll read this thread with great interest so let me append my post on page 1 with this final thought...

The game is ESRB 10+, but that doesn't mean we need to write *down* to the audience.

Challenge them - make it just as emotionally complex, layered and instructive as say, the mid-game parts of Talos Principle or our final interactions with the Sea Emperor.

Don't save the really *deep* stuff for the endgame. Ramp it up right from the start, beginning with Al-an.

There's a treasure trove of complex character development inherent in Al-an's "personality" - ease us into the complexity of the endgame writing by starting us off with a character that we have to dig deep to fully understand.

[Saphy Taff]

Originally posted by DiESF1RST:

This is but a small portion of my suggestion post (not yet released) but I figured I'd post just this bit separately as I continue to work on the full suggestions post... it is massive in comparison to this (6 pages single spaced size10 font on word)

Bad writing can destroy a game.

The largest problem I have have with Subnautica Below Zero is the writing.

I also find issue with Robin. She rubbed off the wrong way when the first bits of dialogue we hear from her didn't at all match what just happened at the beginning, including Jenkins's disappearance. The writing does seem janky. The original had an excellent story that was told through discovery, and I don't get the feeling this story will be anywhere near the same quality.

Robin's personality is annoying to me, but that seems to just be the kind of person she is. For all we know so far future dialogue may be better and more humble in tone. I think the main problem is the attempt at writing a narrative with a game like this in general. The story feels like it's on rails now, rather than waiting out there to be discovered.

[DiESF1RST]

Originally posted by Cougarific:

I know Tom is active here on these Discussions and I'm sure he'll read this thread with great interest so let me append my post on page 1 with this final thought...

The game is ESRB 10+, but that doesn't mean we need to write *down* to the audience.

Challenge them - make it just as emotionally complex, layered and instructive as say, the mid-game parts of Talos Principle or our final interactions with the Sea Emperor.

Don't save the really *deep* stuff for the endgame. Ramp it up right from the start, beginning with Al-an.

There's a treasure trove of complex character development inherent in Al-an's "personality" - ease us into the complexity of the endgame writing by starting us off with a character that we have to dig deep to fully understand.

Yes, this i agree with!

Originally posted by Celly-Belly:

Originally posted by DiESF1RST:

This is but a small portion of my suggestion post (not yet released) but I figured I'd post just this bit separately as I continue to work on the full suggestions post... it is massive in comparison to this (6 pages single spaced size10 font on word)

Bad writing can destroy a game.

The largest problem I have have with Subnautica Below Zero is the writing.

I also find issue with Robin. She rubbed off the wrong way when the first bits of dialogue we hear from her didn't at all match what just happened at the beginning, including Jenkins's disappearance. The writing does seem janky. The original had an excellent story that was told through discovery, and I don't get the feeling this story will be anywhere near the same quality.

Robin's personality is annoying to me, but that seems to just be the kind of person she is. For all we know so far future dialogue may be better and more humble in tone. I think the main problem is the attempt at writing a narrative with a game like this in general. The story feels like it's on rails now, rather than waiting out there to be discovered.

I agree fully on this, i figured the story here in BZ was put on rails to ease new players in, but gives no options for players to start without the new intro sequence.

I believe Unknown should add the option of letting players start with nothing with slight alterations to the intro and early sequence dialog(s) (this is something i'll be covering in my main post when its done), where we would start at station zero being caught in the avalanche and the player is pushed into the frozen lake. from there the temp habitat will be deployed and from there we're on our own. I also thing most (if not all) pre-made bases should be destroyed or found in disrepair (also covered in main post (not released yet)).

[Ninian]

Speaking as a late millennial (will be 37 this year) Robin does indeed appeal to me as a protagonist. I like how idealistic and cool under pressure she is. This is definitely a different kind of story, but my favorite sequels totally diverge from the original anyway. If I want a story just like Subnautica, I still have Subnautica. It's still awesome on every replay, that's how good it is. Thing is, I'm gonna love this story too and I adore what I see of it so far. Particular with what I've seen of Al-An.

I'm sorry you're not enjoying it OP, though I wish you wouldn't dress up your opinion in faux-objectivity or ranting at the developer how to make or market their game. (do you have experience in doing either? I didn't see your credentials anywhere in the post. Dunning-Kruger effect is something we all have to watch ourselves for)
You just didn't like what you saw and Robin frustrated you as a protagonist. That's perfectly valid and legit. Your feelings are valid, you don't need to back them up with anything. I've felt that way about protagonists before with different games. Neku from The World Ends with You and Luke from Tales of the Abyss both being protagonists that made me want to throw the game against the wall. Maybe Below Zero just isn't for you? Maybe not everything has to be for you. Maybe something not being for you isn't automatically damning, even if it irritates the everloving sh** out of you. In my experience, part of being an adult is growing to accept this. Different folks like different things. That's a good thing.

I hope you don't have to wait long to find and play the kind of game you want to play, though. I mean that with all sincerity, life is short and we should all have things we love to spend time with.



EDIT: I'm also really enjoying the writing in general. While some of the "snark" banter between Robin and Sam grates on me just a tiny bit, in general I like how natural the dialogue sounds and I like how Robin is just kinda dealing with things as they come. Very often she says things I'm already thinking and such, esp. when dealing with the above spoiler.

[Big Smork]

Pretty good suggestion. I hope the devs get around to looking at it.

[matrixmod]

I actually didnt like the first moment of her contacting with the alien facility where she said "How do you know my name?! I come in peace!" and Im surprised you found that akward. She answered like she already knew the facility is gonna talk to her.

[Blackpine]

I believe if sitiation is going to remain as it is we are going to have Mary Suieish Rei 2.0 on our hands. Hopefully she should come with lightsaber or something.
It the same for me as with previous game - I loved the gameplay but hated the narrative.