Lore question about Shura (Spoilers, duh)

[Sasha Mason]

So if I understood Isshin correctly, Shura is someone who just goes on killing for the joy of killing, or basically someone who goes on killing without really knowing why.

So, when we do side with Owl, how exactly does Emma know we're Shura? At that point, we've only followed the Iron Code. Owl even threw Shurikens at Emma, but somehow we're Shura for following Owl. And Emma came to us choosing to fight us. It's not like we got downstairs, drew our blade and started fighting out of nowhere. So I don't really understand how we get called out as Shura that fast. It makes sense for Isshin to think we're Shura after Emma is killed, and also for Kuro to realize it after literally everyone is dead, but even Owl doesn't notice what's going on with Sekiro until shortly before his death.

I dunno, just a lil confusing to me.

[Krono]

If I had to say, Emma is a lot more sensitive to somebody going down the path of Shura because of the traumatic experiences she had as a child. Owl is busy in his delusions of conquest, so he honestly thinks you’re just perfectly loyal to him.

[Sasha Mason]

Originally posted by Krono:

because of the traumatic experiences she had as a child.

Hmm interesting. I didn't know that. Must've missed it. Where does this get mentioned?

[Krono]

Originally posted by Mason™ of Germany:

Hmm interesting. I didn't know that. Must've missed it. Where does this get mentioned?

If you give her Sake she mentions being rescued from a battlefield by the Sculptor (then known as his shinobi name Orangutan) who she mistook for an actual monkey. His simple kind act of giving her a rice ball overwhelmed her and she followed him off. It’s like him that introduced her to her adoptive father Dogen.

This same sculptor was on the verge of becoming Shura, but he was defeated and his arm cut off by Isshin. Emma likely witnessed this entire thing, since in another sake talk she says she learned swordplay from Isshin so she could fight a demon if one ever appeared, probably meaning she wanted to be able to stop the sculptor if he ever lost himself again.

On a little side note, they never say anything about it but Emma is likely a foreigner, or maybe a mix of one foreign parent and one Japanese parent. I think there’s a good chance they both died in something to do with the battle in question.

[Big Moustache]

It's like dragonrot. It only affects friendly npc's for some inexplicable reason. And than not even old sickly Isshin. Why not have Sekiro jump of a cliff a few 100 times an have the rot take care of the invasion instead.

Just saying, don't stare to deep into the lore.

[Krono]

Originally posted by Fragoos:

It's like dragonrot. It only affects friendly npc's for some inexplicable reason. And than not even old sickly Isshin. Why not have Sekiro jump of a cliff a few 100 times an have the rot take care of the invasion instead.

Just saying, don't stare to deep into the lore.

They specifically say that Dragon Rot affects people that Sekiro gets close to and interacts with, and that the cause of Dragon Rot is the person’s vitality being drained to support Sekiro’s immortality. A walking corpse like Isshin wouldn’t do much to give energy for the immortality curse

[Big Moustache]

Originally posted by Krono:

Originally posted by Fragoos:

It's like dragonrot. It only affects friendly npc's for some inexplicable reason. And than not even old sickly Isshin. Why not have Sekiro jump of a cliff a few 100 times an have the rot take care of the invasion instead.

Just saying, don't stare to deep into the lore.

They specifically say that Dragon Rot affects people that Sekiro gets close to and interacts with, and that the cause of Dragon Rot is the person’s vitality being drained to support Sekiro’s immortality. A walking corpse like Isshin wouldn’t do much to give energy for the immortality curse

Than why is the old bell lady affected by it?

[Krono]

Originally posted by Fragoos:

Than why is the old bell lady affected by it?

She’s old and senile, but not sickly. Apparently she has enough energy for Dragon Rot to affect her

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by Krono:

Originally posted by Mason™ of Germany:

Hmm interesting. I didn't know that. Must've missed it. Where does this get mentioned?

If you give her Sake she mentions being rescued from a battlefield by the Sculptor (then known as his shinobi name Orangutan) who she mistook for an actual monkey. His simple kind act of giving her a rice ball overwhelmed her and she followed him off. It’s like him that introduced her to her adoptive father Dogen.

This same sculptor was on the verge of becoming Shura, but he was defeated and his arm cut off by Isshin. Emma likely witnessed this entire thing, since in another sake talk she says she learned swordplay from Isshin so she could fight a demon if one ever appeared, probably meaning she wanted to be able to stop the sculptor if he ever lost himself again.

On a little side note, they never say anything about it but Emma is likely a foreigner, or maybe a mix of one foreign parent and one Japanese parent. I think there’s a good chance they both died in something to do with the battle in question.

Isshin says he actually killed a Shura before. Its very likely this Shura was related to the battlefield she was found on. Which would make that Emma's reason rather then what happened with the Sculptor.

Originally posted by Krono:

Originally posted by Fragoos:

Than why is the old bell lady affected by it?

She’s old and senile, but not sickly. Apparently she has enough energy for Dragon Rot to affect her

It can effect even dying people like the mother and her son in the first area, so im pretty sure its not related to that.

I'd say the reason certain people arent affected is purely a result of plot armor. Everyone thats needed for the main story to continue cant be affected by it.

[Krono]

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Isshin says he actually killed a Shura before. Its very likely this Shura was related to the battlefield she was found on. Which would make that Emma's reason rather then what happened with the Sculptor.

Isshin said he defeated something “close” to Shura, which would fit with the idea of the Sculptor being on the verge of losing himself and being stopped by Isshin. We know from the sculptor himself that Isshin cut off his arm (or did Isshin tell us this? I can’t remember) and that he got the prosthetic from Dogen afterwards. He continued fighting and developing techniques, but he felt himself falling to his rage and bloodlust again so he retired to sculpt Buddha in a desperate attempt to keep the rage at bay.

I think it’s reasonable to say that Emma witnessed this, and that this is the Shura incident that happened in the past.

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

I'd say the reason certain people arent affected is purely a result of plot armor. Everyone thats needed for the main story to continue cant be affected by it.

The old lady isn’t dying when we first meet her though, just her son is from his wounds. They later pass away when you finish the Hirata estate stuff, it has nothing to do with the Dragonrot.

Yeah you could say plot reasons are why certain people aren’t infected, but there are good reasons for it I’d say. Kuro and Sekiro can’t get infected for obvious reasons, but for others:

Isshin has one foot in the grave, we’re told it’s a miracle he’s even alive right now. Not a great source of vitality for a curse.

Emma is a magic doctor, whose adoptive father did a great deal of research on Dragonrot before. She’s able to make a cure with a few blood samples when an outbreak happens, so it’s reasonable to say she would have a means to avoid infection herself.

Genichiro is actively antagonistic to us, so not exactly “close”

And every other npc can get infected, unless I’m forgetting someone.

[TyresTyco]

I wouldnt look to serious at isshin given by the fact that dat old man literally minutes before his death can use flames by stomping his feed on the flaming ground like some fire bender lol.

[Krono]

Originally posted by TyresTyco:

I wouldnt look to serious at isshin given by the fact that dat old man literally minutes before his death can use flames by stomping his feed on the flaming ground like some fire bender lol.

.... yeah I got nothing here lol. Dude is just sooo skilled that fire obeys his will? I dunno, magic does exist in this world