Punishment vs Reward - FromSoftware's Least Rewarding Game Yet (Spoilers)

[DigitalFarce]

Look, I am still only 10 hours in and just barely beat the Drunken Master. I have died countless times. I have screamed countless times. Yet I have only celebrated very times. Instead of a cool piece or armor or weapons or something to want me to keep plowing through, I get "rewarded" with more death and punishment or a gourd seed. I am going to keep playing through but IMHO, this is the most punishing but least rewarding FromSoftware game yet..

First off, the controls are less than ideal for a game that requires your full focus, talent, and concentration. Trying to switch between healing items and items mid battle is a pain. I've also gotten stuck on walls and other environment pieces only to die multiple times. This tiny details make a huge difference when ONE wrong move can spoil your attempt at a boss or just spread Dragonrot even more... Don't even get me started on the wall jumping and mechanics. How about just two taps is a double jump and "X" grabs the freaking wall every time?!

Lastly, I will never understand why in 2019, games can be released with textures straight out 2009. Look, this game is about GAMEPLAY but in the opening cutscene, the grass and other textures are so muddy especially at the start. Hopefully we will be some improvements in both controls and for maxed out PC settings.

I have hopes for this game in the long run but this game isn't Dark Souls or Bloodborne. It's also absolutely grueling. I would take a hard pass if any of this concerns you. I just wish I felt a little more reward for all the punishment..

[DigitalFarce]

I already explained above as have others. Lack of RPG elements, armor and weapons. Getting a Heath Pellet hidden away cliff isn't that motivating to explore..

[Ricky the Pooh]

You're right OP, beating a boss in DS3 felt a lot better than this. I played Dark Souls mostly for build variety and playing through the game in a different way. Beating a boss always felt like a step towards completing a new build, even if it's just souls for leveling up. This time around, beating a boss feels like just another step to beating the game, then either quit or start all over again. Wooo!

Also:

Originally posted by DigitalFarce:

... or a gourd seed.

LOL

[TRichter]

I have beaten a few bosses in this game and I never feeled rewarded, just happy, that another ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fight is behind me. The problem for me is, that the boss fights are, let's be honest here, nothing else then quick time events. There is no tactic envolved there are no different ways to approach the fight, the little varity given by the shinobi arm does little to nothing in this regard. You are standing there, trying to press buttons in the right milisecond. Parrying might be easier then in Souls, but in Souls it was never requiered, while in Sekuro it is needed in nearly every fight, against bosses even constantly. This is not fun, it is buisy work combined with quick reflexes.

I cursed a lot when playing Dark Souls 1 to 3. I cursed a lot when playing Nioh, but I never thought about deleting the game before it was finished. But not so for Sekuro. I just don't know if I want to play another qte, that is just harder then the last one. So I think, that this is indeed the least rewarding FS game and until now, I hope it bombs, so that FS will continue making games with hard, tactic fights and not unfair qtes.

[Ebon Wolf]

Why do people worry about builds in PVE dark souls? By the end you can be good at everything and the game itself doesnt require a bug variety. PVP is where builds actually matter. I do miss having an assortment of weapons but most people stick to what looks cool or what's most effective. Again by the end of the game it doesn't matter what you use.

[Erebus]

I have to agree. In Dark Souls, beating a boss always nets some kind of sick reward. Especially the third game, where every boss soul could be made into a weapon AND you got boss armor sets after some bosses. There's a reason Fashion Souls exists. But in Sekiro, you beat a hard boss and... well, congrats, you get to continue to the next hard boss. Ah, you get a piece of health upgrade. Whoop-de-doo.

[TRichter]

Originally posted by Ebon Wolf:

Why do people worry about builds in PVE dark souls? By the end you can be good at everything and the game itself doesnt require a bug variety. PVP is where builds actually matter. I do miss having an assortment of weapons but most people stick to what looks cool or what's most effective. Again by the end of the game it doesn't matter what you use.

No. Playing a mage or playing a fighter is a total different thing. Of course you can spend hours grinding to become a perfect char, but who does that? In Sekuro you do qtes with a katana, thats it.

[DigitalFarce]

Originally posted by TRichter:

I have beaten a few bosses in this game and I never feeled rewarded, just happy, that another ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fight is behind me. The problem for me is, that the boss fights are, let's be honest here, nothing else then quick time events. There is no tactic envolved there are no different ways to approach the fight, the little varity given by the shinobi arm does little to nothing in this regard. You are standing there, trying to press buttons in the right milisecond. Parrying might be easier then in Souls, but in Souls it was never requiered, while in Sekuro it is needed in nearly every fight, against bosses even constantly. This is not fun, it is buisy work combined with quick reflexes.

I cursed a lot when playing Dark Souls 1 to 3. I cursed a lot when playing Nioh, but I never thought about deleting the game before it was finished. But not so for Sekuro. I just don't know if I want to play another qte, that is just harder then the last one. So I think, that this is indeed the least rewarding FS game and until now, I hope it bombs, so that FS will continue making games with hard, tactic fights and not unfair qtes.

Great points - I am thinking about replaying DS3 again instead of finishing Sekiro. I LIKE Sekiro but it feels more like work than a great game.

Originally posted by EX-Act:

I have to agree. In Dark Souls, beating a boss always nets some kind of sick reward. Especially the third game, where every boss soul could be made into a weapon AND you got boss armor sets after some bosses. There's a reason Fashion Souls exists. But in Sekiro, you beat a hard boss and... well, congrats, you get to continue to the next hard boss. Ah, you get a piece of health upgrade. Whoop-de-doo.

Also a great point.

YAY! I beat the horse boss! Oh good, here comes a few trash mobs right in time for the Burning Bull three minutes later. It feels not like a grind but... one chore after another.

[NOT FUFUFAFA]

Originally posted by TRichter:

Originally posted by Ebon Wolf:

Why do people worry about builds in PVE dark souls? By the end you can be good at everything and the game itself doesnt require a bug variety. PVP is where builds actually matter. I do miss having an assortment of weapons but most people stick to what looks cool or what's most effective. Again by the end of the game it doesn't matter what you use.

No. Playing a mage or playing a fighter is a total different thing. Of course you can spend hours grinding to become a perfect char, but who does that? In Sekuro you do qtes with a katana, thats it.

An invincible Katana which slices through solid stuffs without getting broken.

[TRichter]

Originally posted by zeroxxx:

Originally posted by TRichter:

No. Playing a mage or playing a fighter is a total different thing. Of course you can spend hours grinding to become a perfect char, but who does that? In Sekuro you do qtes with a katana, thats it.

An invincible Katana which slices through solid stuffs without getting broken. :Silly:

Like any Hollywood Katana. ;)

[DigitalFarce]

Finally beat Lady Butterfly tonight. UGH! Rewards not worth it ;)

[Anatolius]

I kinda agree, there's really nor much to look forward to when engaging most bosses.
Only impressions.
Prayer beads are kinda okay, but .. do they have to be so poor?

[Sedres]

Warning bells went off for me when I finally killed a boss I was having trouble with, and unlike Dark Souls or Bloodborne when there's a sense of relief or "♥♥♥♥ yeah" I felt... nothing. I'm 11 hours in and getting fed up with parts that have been made difficult for the sake of being difficult, not because I haven't grasped the games mechanics.

[Maelstrom]

Originally posted by DigitalFarce:

Aaaand case in point. Sweet! I beat Lady Butterfly! After a few hours. So awesome!

Oh wait.. she has some cheap additional phase after all that. Punishment vs Reward with this game is so out of whack, it hurts.

Cheap additional phase? Are you new to FromSoft games?

Originally posted by DigitalFarce:

I could care less about artificial acheivements or unlocks in that regard. I am simply stating that "Souls-like" rewards are much more appealing.

You mean, like a ♥♥♥♥ ton of Souls so you can put 2 more points into dex (yay, numbers), or a boss weapon you probably can't use anways?

The thing I like about Sekiro's rewards is that all the items you find can be used. You character is a tool box and every prosthetic, every buff, every upgrade piece, schematic or skill book you find can be used to make him better and give him new moves. Sekiro may not offer as much as DS and BB in terms of variety of ways you can build him, but he has the most varied arsenal and moveset at his disposition all at once.

[DigitalFarce]

Originally posted by Psilo:

Originally posted by DigitalFarce:

Aaaand case in point. Sweet! I beat Lady Butterfly! After a few hours. So awesome!

Oh wait.. she has some cheap additional phase after all that. Punishment vs Reward with this game is so out of whack, it hurts.

Cheap additional phase? Are you new to FromSoft games?

Originally posted by DigitalFarce:

I could care less about artificial acheivements or unlocks in that regard. I am simply stating that "Souls-like" rewards are much more appealing.

You mean, like a ♥♥♥♥ ton of Souls so you can put 2 more points into dex (yay, numbers), or a boss weapon you probably can't use anways?

The thing I like about Sekiro's rewards is that all the items you find can be used. You character is a tool box and every prosthetic, every buff, every upgrade piece, schematic or skill book you find can be used to make him better and give him new moves. Sekiro may not offer as much as DS and BB in terms of variety of ways you can build him, but he has the most varied arsenal and moveset at his disposition all at once.

It's just differing opinions. You are totally happy with the rewards of Sekiro vs DS series. Awesome. Good to hear.

Myself and others feel that this is a solid game but it leaves a bit of an empty feeling. I feel more of relief, like I get off a work shift when I beat a Sekiro boss knowing that I just have to go back to work tomorrow...

[Grad]

Is the thrill of defeating a stronk enemy not reward enough for you? After I beat up the Great Ape in Sunken Valley I was over the moon.
It sounds like you need a trophy and a pat on the back from FromSoftware-kun every time you do something.
Maybe you expectations of how games reward the player have been ruined by Destiny/Anthem/etc etc where they vomit out loot for doing anything.