Combat Arts Spirit Emblem costs feel a bit overkill.

[Baklavah]

Where the costs are with regards to Prosthetic abilities feel fine. What I'm getting at is for the Combat Arts, the costs are punishing. Especially when we consider that the Ichimonji and the Ichimonji: Double are a thing.

Consider this. Mortal Draw, costs 3 SP every time you use it. You get a MAXIMUM of between 19-20 emblems (I'm fairly certain, but not 100%. If someone can confirm this it'd be appreciated). Empowered Mortal Draw costs 5 SP for every use. So, you either get to use your prosthetic skills OR your Combat Arts? :/ I could understand if MD cost 1 SP and EMD cost 2 SP. But 3-5? Seems a bit unnecessary to cost that much.

Same with the other late-game Combat Arts you can acquire. Why would you even bother using them when the Ichimonji: Double just stomps them all in terms of utility and usability? Immense posture damage, good health damage, can be swung twice in quick succession, recovers a massive amount of your own posture and costs ZERO SP. Something is very wrong here.

It makes me wonder if any of these skills are even remotely worth obtaining, since them costing SP is brutal and counter-intuitive. *shrug* at least that's my opinion...

Thoughts?

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by Kajiya:

Yeah , considering most of the combat skills are useless it kinda hurts they even use spirit emblems.

Most of them are great if you know how and when to use them.

That said, them sucking up spirit emblems is a poor design choice.

[MundM]

I think it's a better system then having to have ammo for every weapon art, because it's easier to balance, and I didn't feel its lacking expect the mortal blade, the damage output is weirdly low for the cost, not much higher then hitting something two-three times.

[Tiasmoon]

Mortal Blade deals damage through guard and has extended range. It also staggers enemies hit. Its one of most reliable ways to damage an enemy that guards well.

Tbh most people say combat arts x or y suck, but it seems like few people have a good grasp and what they actually do or dont do..

Which is probably in some part due to the games ridiculous skill exp scaling.

[MundM]

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Mortal Blade deals damage through guard and has extended range. It also staggers enemies hit. Its one of most reliable ways to damage an enemy that guards well.

Tbh most people say combat arts x or y suck, but it seems like few people have a good grasp and what they actually do or dont do..

Which is probably in some part due to the games ridiculous skill exp scaling.

It's possible I don't see value in using the mortal blade so far, because I don't require damage through guarding, because I play with dodging and parrying all the time. Maybe I should consider force damaging enemies with that some times, but I really love long fights with dance like sword parrying.

[Tiasmoon]

That is the most fun way to fight in this game. Some of the hardest fights don't always allow that, tho.

[Baklavah]

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Originally posted by Kajiya:

Yeah , considering most of the combat skills are useless it kinda hurts they even use spirit emblems.

Most of them are great if you know how and when to use them.

That said, them sucking up spirit emblems is a poor design choice.

Agreed. I know I keep going back to the spirit bar idea but I feel it would have been much more wieldly. Like, you start with 3 chunks, and then get upgrades to get up to 6, and filling them 25-50% faster late game.

Would have been a way better concept...

[f001er]

Originally posted by MundM:

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Mortal Blade deals damage through guard and has extended range. It also staggers enemies hit. Its one of most reliable ways to damage an enemy that guards well.

Tbh most people say combat arts x or y suck, but it seems like few people have a good grasp and what they actually do or dont do..

Which is probably in some part due to the games ridiculous skill exp scaling.

It's possible I don't see value in using the mortal blade so far, because I don't require damage through guarding, because I play with dodging and parrying all the time. Maybe I should consider force damaging enemies with that some times, but I really love long fights with dance like sword parrying.

Some bosses have very high posture regen untill you bring their hp down. Arts that can't be guarded speed up such fights by A LOT.

[flow]

An easy solution would have been a skill that gives you a chance of getting a spirit emblem back on successful deflect. Maybe have the chance based on your Unseen Aid percentage to make that slightly less useless too.

[Shicki]

I honestly don't see how the spirit emblems are an issue. If you use CAs on normal enemies, they drop emblems frequently enough for you to recover the costs. I don't know how you use your spirit emblems, but I use combat arts in key opportunities like when a boss is stunned.

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by Shicki:

I honestly don't see how the spirit emblems are an issue. If you use CAs on normal enemies, they drop emblems frequently enough for you to recover the costs. I don't know how you use your spirit emblems, but I use combat arts in key opportunities like when a boss is stunned.

In such a situation regular attacks typically deal the same or more damage. It depends on the combat arts ofcourse, however typically they are at their greatest effective when using them to deal damage through guard, to attack faster then the enemies attack, to surpress or stun, or to hit them outside of your normal attack range.

Only combat arts that focus on dealing big damage are effective when the enemy is stunned.

[Abysswalker]

I honestly never used Ichimonji. Its a boring skill and way too slow. I love using the last skill in the Ashina tree or Shinobi tree. You can do some cool stuff with those. Havnt gotten the upgraded version of the shinobi final skill yet but that looks cool aswell. I dont mind the spirit emblem costs on those skills but I agree that mortal blade skills are way too expensive.

[MundM]

Originally posted by f001er:

Originally posted by MundM:

It's possible I don't see value in using the mortal blade so far, because I don't require damage through guarding, because I play with dodging and parrying all the time. Maybe I should consider force damaging enemies with that some times, but I really love long fights with dance like sword parrying.

Some bosses have very high posture regen untill you bring their hp down. Arts that can't be guarded speed up such fights by A LOT.

I know, but I don't mind long fights, I rather enjoy them more, the guardian ape took me at least 15 minutes to kill, and I still had ressources left and only took about 6 or 7 attempts.

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by Abysswalker:

I dont mind the spirit emblem costs on those skills but I agree that mortal blade skills are way too expensive.

I disagree with that. The spirit emblem cost on Mortal Strike isnt that much of a big deal since the ''weaker'' version (when you run out of emblems) still has all the properties that make the combat arts great.

Most (or all even?) of the other Spirit Emblem Combat Arts lose what makes them good in the first place once you run out of Spirit Emblems.

[Baklavah]

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Originally posted by Abysswalker:

I dont mind the spirit emblem costs on those skills but I agree that mortal blade skills are way too expensive.

I disagree with that. The spirit emblem cost on Mortal Strike isnt that much of a big deal since the ''weaker'' version (when you run out of emblems) still has all the properties that make the combat arts great.

Most (or all even?) of the other Spirit Emblem Combat Arts lose what makes them good in the first place once you run out of Spirit Emblems.

^

[Baklavah]

Originally posted by Abysswalker:

I honestly never used Ichimonji. Its a boring skill and way too slow. I love using the last skill in the Ashina tree or Shinobi tree. You can do some cool stuff with those. Havnt gotten the upgraded version of the shinobi final skill yet but that looks cool aswell. I dont mind the spirit emblem costs on those skills but I agree that mortal blade skills are way too expensive.

Ichi: Double may be boring and slow, but as soon as a boss ends their combo, I unleash it. It's what helped me defeat Genichiro. That boss had me at a loss for 4 hours before I asked for some tips and developed my own strategy from a few pointers.