Is it just me or the English subtitle was poorly translated?

[Sharkfin]

I am not a Japanese but I learnt some basic conversation. During the first chapter I could already hear many translation error/laziness and skipped some context. Some minor conversation like "excuse me/ sorry" became "thank you".

I mean wtf is the translator doing to this great title.

[ahaha.wav]

There are instances in translation between Japanese and English where some of the nuance is going to be lost because there often is no direct translation. Meanings also frequently change depending on context - you gave the example of "excuse me" (すみません), which actually can also mean "thank you".

My knowledge of Japanese is not sufficient to be able to comment much on the translation overall, but there were no glaring issues in what I did pick up.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

It is kind of funny though that the English subtitles and whistle finger call Kingfisher a she, but the English Sculptor calls them a he.

[ahaha.wav]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

It is kind of funny though that the English subtitles and whistle finger call Kingfisher a she, but the English Sculptor calls them a he.

What is the exact wording used in that case?

[Chrysalis]

Originally posted by ahaha.wav:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

It is kind of funny though that the English subtitles and whistle finger call Kingfisher a she, but the English Sculptor calls them a he.

What is the exact wording used in that case?

If you give monkey booze to the sculptor he talks about Kingfisher.

"And I'd listen to the howl of my partner's whistling finger while I drank. It was from his unique ring... Whistling through that ring... Would fill the valley with a somber melody. Strangely enough, I enjoyed that sound. I listened to it so often."

In the other 2 languages that I played the game in, German and Japanese, the gender of kingfisher is left ambigous/neutral in this dialogue.

[ahaha.wav]

Originally posted by Chrysalis:

If you give monkey booze to the sculptor he talks about Kingfisher.

"And I'd listen to the howl of my partner's whistling finger while I drank. It was from his unique ring... Whistling through that ring... Would fill the valley with a somber melody. Strangely enough, I enjoyed that sound. I listened to it so often."

In the other 2 languages that I played the game in, German and Japanese, the gender of kingfisher is left ambigous/neutral.

Yeah, it was the JP dialogue I was asking about. Gender is not typically implied at all in Japanese speech, the majority of honorifics are gender neutral and have use cases depending on the speaker's relationship with who they are referring to. I'd be interested to hear exactly what it says, but I'd need to replay the game.

Edit:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

It is kind of funny though that the English subtitles and whistle finger call Kingfisher a she, but the English Sculptor calls them a he.

The English description you are referring to says that the finger the tool was made from belonged to a woman originally, not that the owner of the tool was female. After also listening to the dialogue, the sculptor refers to Kingfisher as "あやつ" (ayatsu), which is gender neutral.

[Chrysalis]

It's pretty clear to me that the hand belonged to Kingfisher, because when you give it to Sekijo he asks where you got it from and seems to be saddened by the tragic fate that befell the hands owner. Why would he care, where it came from and what happened to it's owner, if he hadn't known the woman it belonged to?

The descriptions of the finger also states that:

"... There is a shinobi technique called the Finger Whistle that can drive beasts wild. The one who used it before clearly used it for this purpose, as evidenced by the finger's open hole..."

Which means that the finger was used for this specific purpose before landing in the Guardian Apes belly.

Also, the rings description states:

"... Wearing this ring as you blow the finger whistle will create a somber tune..."

If I got this right, then it would mean, that to create this specific sound, you need the ring AND the finger. Which would mean that the hand belonged to Kingfisher and was used together with the ring to create the "The weeping voice full of solitude and beauty" that Sekijo talked about.

Well, it could also mean that it wasn't her own hand and that she just carried around the cut off hand of another woman, but I don't think that's the case xD

I think this proofs (atleast to me) that Kingfisher is intended to be female, but my conclusions could be wrong.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Chrysalis:

It's pretty clear to me that the hand belonged to Kingfisher, because when you give it to Sekijo he asks where you got it from and seems to be saddened by the tragic fate that befell the hands owner. Why would he care, where it came from and what happened to it's owner, if he hadn't known the woman it belonged to?

The descriptions of the finger also states that:

"... There is a shinobi technique called the Finger Whistle that can drive beasts wild. The one who used it before clearly used it for this purpose, as evidenced by the finger's open hole..."

Which means that the finger was used for this specific purpose before landing in the Guardian Apes belly.

Also, the rings description states:

"... Wearing this ring as you blow the finger whistle will create a somber tune..."

If I got this right, then it would mean, that to create this specific sound, you need the ring AND the finger. Which would mean that the hand belonged to Kingfisher and was used together with the ring to create the "The weeping voice full of solitude and beauty" that Sekijo talked about.

Well, it could also mean that it wasn't her own hand and that she just carried around the cut off hand of another woman, but I don't think that's the case xD

I think this proofs (atleast to me) that Kingfisher is intended to be female, but my conclusions could be wrong.

And the malcontent upgrade to the finger whistle specifically causes the Demon of Hatred to stagger, which if you know the fate of the demon you know the significance of this.

So yes, I suspect the finger whistle was Kingfisher's actual finger.

This seems to be a similar situation as the old hunter's bone English description in Bloodborne. Where it stated it belonged to a male hunter, but when the DLC came out, it was made clear it came from Lady Maria.

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by ahaha.wav:

Originally posted by Chrysalis:

If you give monkey booze to the sculptor he talks about Kingfisher.

"And I'd listen to the howl of my partner's whistling finger while I drank. It was from his unique ring... Whistling through that ring... Would fill the valley with a somber melody. Strangely enough, I enjoyed that sound. I listened to it so often."

In the other 2 languages that I played the game in, German and Japanese, the gender of kingfisher is left ambigous/neutral.

Yeah, it was the JP dialogue I was asking about. Gender is not typically implied at all in Japanese speech, the majority of honorifics are gender neutral and have use cases depending on the speaker's relationship with who they are referring to. I'd be interested to hear exactly what it says, but I'd need to replay the game.

Edit:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

It is kind of funny though that the English subtitles and whistle finger call Kingfisher a she, but the English Sculptor calls them a he.

The English description you are referring to says that the finger the tool was made from belonged to a woman originally, not that the owner of the tool was female. After also listening to the dialogue, the sculptor refers to Kingfisher as "あやつ" (ayatsu), which is gender neutral.

There's gender neutral words in the English language as well..
Then again, since most people who natively speak the language don't have a very good understanding/grasp of it anyway, its not like it matter if the English text is written well. Few would care.

Originally posted by ahaha.wav:

Meanings also frequently change depending on context

Using the right context isn't only basic for translation, but for interpretating of any kind.

Originally posted by CrazySpider:

I am not a Japanese but I learnt some basic conversation. During the first chapter I could already hear many translation error/laziness and skipped some context. Some minor conversation like "excuse me/ sorry" became "thank you".

I mean wtf is the translator doing to this great title.

It wasnt particularly poorly translated. I didnt notice any glaring issues, but then I spend more time listening to the JP dialogue then actually reading the English text. Translations are rarely high quality, but most arent terrible or bad either.

[the2ndSign]

Lol another person who can't speak Japanese criticizing a professional translation job.

[Sharkfin]

Originally posted by Klepty Snatchngrab:

Lol another person who can't speak Japanese criticizing a professional translation job.

Thanks for pointing out that to a person who help translating Japanese manga voluntarily. I am not proud of it because it's kind of illegal. Anyway, I have decided to just switch the subtitle to also Japanese as I could read quicker than listening. Hope one day I could hear the in-game voice act more clearly like in real life.

[SmallGespenst]

there's more to a translation then being word for word accurate. it's why machine translations are nearly always garbage, they have all of the correct words, but it rarely makes sense due to linguistic differences, if you're helping with translations without understanding that, your contribution might end up being a negative on the end result.

[Sharkfin]

Originally posted by awhurley:

there's more to a translation then being word for word accurate. it's why machine translations are nearly always garbage, they have all of the correct words, but it rarely makes sense due to linguistic differences, if you're helping with translations without understanding that, your contribution might end up being a negative on the end result.

Who would even use machine translation? To be fair I am not talking about the exact wordings. I admit that I might have exaggerated. But it's hard to explain to you the weird feeling when I listen the Japanese and read the English sub at the same time. English is the 4th language I learnt and I still lack the skill to fully utilise it.

Just saying, I will put this a stop for whoever tries to question me. As all I want to do from now on is to enjoy playing the game. Stopped using English sub anyway.

Edit: Tried switching to English Dub + Sub, it's surprising well done to be honest. Imo just don't go ♥♥♥ Sub + Eng Dub or vice versa if you happened to speak both languages