Getting bored honestly

[Id]

I hate the way the story is told mostly thru visual novel style dialogue. I rather see Metal Gear STyle hour long cutscenes than sit there watching characters standing in place doing nothing but talking.

That's why i started skipping text after i read it. I like the voice actors, but this game's "cutscenes" are boring and weak. The only real cutscene I've seen so far was at the beginning of the game bruh. I'm still on Chapter 3, but after trying to get some rare materials I need to drop and seeing that it will never drop unless i wasted even more time trying. I'mma just go thru the story.

The sidequests suck too, some of them aren't clear on what we're supposed to do like the Max Combo quest Fromage gives us. I was stuck at 26 for the longest and finally figured that I was supposed to get a max combo of 30 hits.

I hate repeat quests too, especially when they give materials that I don't really need anymore.

This game is starting to look like a 6/10 to me. I like the characters for the most part, Kirika is my waifu, but I'm not trying to play a Visual Novel Game, I'm trying to play a JRPG...

[Tiasmoon]

I think theres 2 problems with the Aspects.

First is how there's so many items in the game, many of them rare drops. So you dont get to craft most of them untill pretty late. What your listing as gamebreaking is pretty much some of what I imagined you could pull off with some combinations, heh.

Second is the gameplay is too level/stats centered. Its very easy to outlevel most monsters, after which they become super easy. If the balancing was better there'd be something to actually use those overpowered Aspect combinations on.


That said, personally I find the amount of items to be the games weakest part. Is there really a reason to have that many items in the game?

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by The Lion King:

Why should I mention FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX? They're not 2D games and even those games don't have the visual novel style that you claim most JRPGs have. I don't even know why you mentioned Final Fantasy games in the first place, is that what you think of when you think of Jrpgs? It seems to me you have a very short list of jrpgs to begin with.

Because previously my argument was that you hadnt played many jRPGs, so I used one that everyone knows as example. Its not what I think of, when I think of jRPGs, but when I think of you.

As you know, you didnt actually give any examples of your own up untill that point.

Originally posted by The Lion King:

The intermissions are still visual novel dialogue where characters stand in place, speak their lines and do nothing but emote. Not real cutscenes, just Visual Novel Nonsense. Again, in actual cutscenes things are getting done. To be even more specific, during cutscenes the actual world is shown, not just some background wallpaper with characters standing in front of it Visual Novel style, saying some lines and emoting.

Originally posted by The Lion King:

Visual Novel Nonsense.

I take it you dont consider just Dialogue Boxes as ''visual novel nonsense'' then? Well, it took you this long to get to the actual point. Congrats.

Many jRPGs still did that. Anime styled ones more then others, tho. Persona is an example of one. Sometimes its just a case of a game being low budget. You can usually tell in advance if a game is going to be ''Visual Novel Nonsense'' or ''Cutscene to the max'' tho.

In the case of this game I'd say its half a designchoice (in character scenes) and half budget (story scenes). Since its a budget game, well nothing to do about it.

Originally posted by The Lion King:

You seem to throw a blanket over all jrpgs throwing out words like " that's pretty usual for JRPGs" or "many Jrpgs" You mention Final Fantasy again as an example for AAA Jrpgs, further proving my point that you haven't played many Jrpgs at all.

That's because Final Fantasy games are the hallmark for AAA jRPGs in the west. Ofcourse I would use them as example, especially towards someone that seems inclined they havent played that many jRPGs. (which was originally my argument by the way, not yours)

There are not that many AAA jRPGs to begin with either. It seems to me you dont understand that most games are neither AAA nor Indie.

Originally posted by The Lion King:

" that's pretty usual for JRPGs" or "many Jrpgs"

Many jRPGs is just that. Many jRPGs. Not a majority per se, but still quite a large amount. It's nothing uncommon, but pretty common. And since its common, thats ''pretty usual for jRPGs''.
That's not a blanket statement. Its a general statement which is not quite the same.

Originally posted by The Lion King:

Also, no one who has this game or is even interested would know what I mentioned is "spoilerific" if you didn't point it out.

You mention specific characters taking specific actions. Anyone with half a brain would know you just spoilered something. Its hard not to know that, since you mention them by name as well.

Not trying to be insulting here, but are you properly awake and all...?

[Milien]

*trying to get all the sh17 written in the thread together*

K, let's clear it, shall we?
VN cutscenes are not a bad thing, but I see the point made by OP - not enough actual cutscenes.
This is just another aspect of this game that tells us about the limited budget.
Now that doesn't mean that jRPGs that use VN like conversation have to be low budged, because Persona 5 definitely isn't like that (it's not AAA either, but just You know - there's still that space in the middle where P5 belongs).
Although tbh the loading screens in that game looks awful.
On the other hand, conversation in Persona aren't exactly VN, because these don't happen with still image in the background, but within the game's enviroment.
And characters move during them, so I guess I'd rather pick Tales of and consider part of it being VN like (Skits) as well.
Now that I pointed out that, should we really consider oldschool jRPGs dialogues as VN?
It would mean the same for western approach of the genre.

I think calling them VN is inappropriate for what actually is a VN.
Going back to Shining Resonance.
Relying on VN wouldn't be bad if those would be more exploited instead of just characters having a chat.

[landman]

What about the fact secondary characters like Emma and Primula that show a lot, have only one single tiny avatar to show them? not even diferent face expressions. It's ok to be VN, but it cuts too many corners lol even some scenes with Alfriede she shows her back to the camera, so what, they modeled her, gave her an idle animation, but couldn't ad lip movement to the model?

I enjoyed the game and still enjoying extra content, but it is what it is, half the budget went to all the songs in the game lol

[Kamikuro]

I really like how is told the story of Shining resonance in VN style, this game have a beautiful way to be told with all models which are 3D. VN style is good to tell story without many flaws or holes and increase possibilites of having several types of events. And Shining innovates with the dialogues and interactions between characters like giving hands to each others which is something that we don't see in games VN-like as Fairy Fencer and Nep or even in VNs. games that interactions only happens in CG which are rare and always are in low quantities in JRPGs, something much different in what happens in VNs that are richies in CG. So the Shining VN-Like style is very good and I want see more games like this.
The only flaws that I see in games like that are the lack of voiced events that can be considered anti-immersive and the lack of CG that are an art to appreciate in these games.

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by landman:

What about the fact secondary characters like Emma and Primula that show a lot, have only one single tiny avatar to show them? not even diferent face expressions. It's ok to be VN, but it cuts too many corners lol even some scenes with Alfriede she shows her back to the camera, so what, they modeled her, gave her an idle animation, but couldn't ad lip movement to the model?

I enjoyed the game and still enjoying extra content, but it is what it is, half the budget went to all the songs in the game lol

The art and the songs are definately some of the outlyers. But as you say, theres no denying that a good part of the game is budgetted. Most notably gameplay balance and cutscenes amount.

Originally posted by ebenmes:

On the other hand, conversation in Persona aren't exactly VN, because these don't happen with still image in the background, but within the game's enviroment.
And characters move during them, so I guess I'd rather pick Tales of and consider part of it being VN like (Skits) as well.

Not the case for Persona 3 or 4 most of the time, but it might be different in 5. As for the difference between a CG/background image and a still of a 3D rendered enviroment...well that depends on whether the area is rendered in 3D to begin with. Since if it is, its exactly the same as taking a screenshot of it and using it as background.

I'd say in the case of this game its a case of not taking the time make pre-rendered cutscenes. So budget I guess. It might be a design choice, but I dont think so in this case.

(thats the concerning the story parts, it makes sense if its a design choice during character ineractions)


That all said, since the game works well enough I dont particularly mind. I dont see the point in considering a game a quality it is not. Stuff like low drop rate items is more an issue to me. As that means having to steal spam a lot. (tho, still a minor issue)

I could write a whole page on what this game could improve on, but unless SEGA tells me beforehand that they'll take that advice under consideration (unlikely) I dont see the point. :p

Originally posted by ebenmes:

I think calling them VN is inappropriate for what actually is a VN.
Going back to Shining Resonance.
Relying on VN wouldn't be bad if those would be more exploited instead of just characters having a chat.

Well VNs exist in many kinds. Tho I do agree that the VN aspects of a game are rarely used well. Then again, that would also mean spending more budget, on CGs and all that. I'm all for it, but nothing we can really expect from a lower budget game.

[TTV baxdab]

Replying to this hot thread a good 2 years late, but I've been playing this game and have been thinking the exact same thing as Op and a lot of the other people in this thread. this game is clearly budgeted pretty hard, and it def feels like the budget went to making more swimsuit outfits and frivolous stuff like that rather than making the VN cut-scenes actually enjoyable, like actually modeling Primula, Emma, or Rapple in any of the conversations, or more varied and interesting expressions. These VN cut-scenes are everywhere too, at every turn, often interrupting the flow of gameplay. It feels dated as hell in 2020, but I guess its about what I should have expected from a game released in 2014 on the PS3 exclusively in Japan, lmao.

[Vince ✟]

Does the story link to the Shining Force games at all?

[Eze]

Originally posted by Id:

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Well, many jRPGs also have strong Visual Novel elements, so...

Not really

yes they do, and the farther they evolve from this trope improving into something better but familiar, the better (like, real cutscenes)

[tracksone]

Id say the majority of jrpg's utilize a visual novel style these days...... i mean, p4 is a beloved jrpg and its 90% visual novel. The tales of games, visual novels, i can keep going for a long time

[spectre199]

Originally posted by Id:

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Well, many jRPGs also have strong Visual Novel elements, so...

Not really

yes they do and majority of jrpg's use visual novel elements at that.

[シップマル]

Originally posted by tracksone:

Id say the majority of jrpg's utilize a visual novel style these days...... i mean, p4 is a beloved jrpg and its 90% visual novel. The tales of games, visual novels, i can keep going for a long time

You right about majority of jrpg's utilize visual novel style, and not only these days tbh, its been like that for a few years. But giving Tales of games as example? Tales series never use VN style for their main story, from Tales of Phantasia till Berseria, they never use VN style (unless if you want to count the mobile games, but mobile game obviously would have VN style), the only thing that close enough to VN style, is the SKITs, but even so, it still not VN style.

[Otomon]

Originally posted by tracksone:

Id say the majority of jrpg's utilize a visual novel style these days...... i mean, p4 is a beloved jrpg and its 90% visual novel. The tales of games, visual novels, i can keep going for a long time

Yah exactly, the reality is if they had cutscenes for every little scene, the development time/cost would be much higher. Atleast I apreciate this game uses the 3D models (and their costume showing) unlike budget companies like Idea Factory which solely rely on static images. Also for some reason the latest Sword Art Online game uses the same boring-ass VN for most cutscenes, but for the DLC they used something called Live2D or whatever its called that makes models look like an actual anime.