Why do people like TR?

[Unseen]

Not trying to catch hate here, I know everyone has their own interests and preferences. But I bought this game I think last year, and I played it a little bit. The games boring... I don't see how this was so famous I start it up, play through the tomb a while, and just get bored. Nothing eventful happens, the combats brief and consists of shooting and jumping. The platformings ok, but there's nothing to really get me into it. Old dusty tomb, and not much else, does it get better?

Was this game famous just cause of a hot chick? Really she wasn't that hot on psx, looked rather stupid to me back then. The movie with angelina was terrible too. Maybe I just don't get archeoligy adventure media I didn't enjoy the indiana jones movies much either. Last crusade was ok cause of sean connery. I dunno this game series just seems dull to me.

Maybe I'm missing something, maybe I didn't play it enough. I got the new TR remake prequel thing, and its kinda boring too even with all those graphics. Is there some kind of hidden reason why this games so acclaimed?

Please don't take offense at this as its just an opinion but I don't really understand the appeal of, lady searches for artifacts, bad men come and wanna hurt her, now she's gotta fight... I just don't get it, in what kinda reality would that even happen and why?

[JimboYCS]

I have installed Anniversary, but I have played older games before and I have recentely finished Tomb Raider: Legend. I mean, it's just old school game. "The Trilogy" has a little bit of story, but as I said is just old school. To be fair, I still don't know why people love Mario games, but people seemse to enjoy them. Maybe, because their are casual with like friendly for everyone looking characters?

To be honest, I always thought it's very girly game, because a lot of girls in my country (Poland) know and played Tomb Raider, but I really enjoyed Legend. There are also a lot of speedruns for this series.

I really like adventure games, so I kinda doubt that Lara Croft being hot chick is main reason why I enjoy it. Anyway, she looks weird in Anniversary, but I will finish it at some point of my life I guess.

Movies based on games = Crap. Producers just want easy money, because they know fans of some series will always go and try to watch it.

[Taeymoor]

I assume you're referring to TR: Anniversary. If you've never played the original, I can see how this game is underwhelming in our current day. This version was a remake of the original TR released in 1996. The level design and theme is based on the original, but the mechanics are not the same. The platforming has been streamlined to make it easier and resembles Prince of Persia and Uncharted more than it does the original TR. The addition of the cable hook thing adds another mechanic to solving the puzzles and traversing the level, but doesn't add any more difficulty. Overall I found this one much easier than the original but still really enjoyed it much more than the interactive movies that TR2013 and its sequels were.

To understand the appeal of the original 1996 TR requires an understanding of the gaming environment into which it was released. The first 3D consoles were only released a year before. They had really bad graphics which was apparent even in 1996. To make up for graphical limitations, games designed in the 90s had to have really entertaining gameplay mechanics in order to sell. Unlike now, where every game feels the same and everyone complains whenever a game's controls don't conform to the generic fluidity we're all accustomed to, games in the 90s had many different control schemes. Tomb Raider's control scheme was like driving a human-shaped tank with a spring board attached. Once you learn her limitations and get good at judging run-up and jumping distances, you die much less and enjoy the exploration a lot more.

The original TR was meant to be a purely platformer/puzzle game set in isolated underground tombs. It accomplished this very well. Each level was a self-contained series of challenges, the rewards of which combined to produce the means to open the exit. Each level had its own theme and peeled back a layer of history that led you deeper and closer to your prized mythological artifact. The first five TR games are the closest in the industry to recreating that feeling you get when Indiana Jones solves the puzzle and discovers where the Ark is buried.

[Mosh]

I don't know why others like it but I really like the atmosphere of being alone and exploring ancient unknown ruins. That atmosphere alone can carry games for me.

[Unseen]

I'm not a new gamer, I began gaming with space invaders on atari.
I knew of TR back in the day, looked bad even back then to me lol. I was more impressed with mario 64, soul reaver, shadowman, banjo etc. Even at the time TR was made I thought there was much better.

Even tho it was a 2d platformer, castlevania sotn was a much better game as well. I dunno it just seems dull the whole idea of it seems meh. Even the new ones, oh look scared girl, badguys, mean guys wanna hurt lara, I mean its not just unrealistic, boring, and blah, its downright creepy.

I dunno least mario even back on nes was fun and trippy and had awesome sound effects and powerups. This really always felt like to me, run, jump and shoot... And I don't care if people like it, I wanna like it, I mean its famous enough. But I just dont find any of them all that fun.

[Hundezahn]

Originally posted by Swamp Song:

But I just dont find any of them all that fun.

Then what are you doing here?

TR is loaded with nostalgia for me. And I always prefered the more realistic style to stuff like Mario or Banjo, don't care if those colorful comic games are mechanically better games.
But I only played the first 3 (because back in the day, you often had to settle with what was there) and the Reboot. Everything in between is just bad.

And I actually prefer the original to Anniversary. Pixel perfect jumping with that human tank has its own special appeal. These more fluid, but still error prone controls just don't cut it. It's like the worst of both worlds, fluid and clunky at the same time.

[Unseen]

I like realistic, cartoony, horror, etc..
Had a lot of fun recently with a hat in time, and soul reaver. Soul reaver was the real tomb raider back then. I've played 1-3, this ones better, least it doesn't look and play terribly.
Its just boring. The whole story and setting is boring. Least the cartoon games have fun stuff to do, vibrant colors, fun animations, music and sound effects. This feels about as stock as a game can get. Even the new tomb raiders... Look and play good, but the story, content, enemies, none of it seems that engaging. Wish crystal dynamics would do something with the legacy of kain series.

Reason I'm here is cause I paid a buck for it, and I get more fun out of cheap 50cent horror games on steam.. Its just boring to me and I was wondering why this franchise is so popular. Don't mean any offense by it, if you like it, that's good I'd like to hear your perspectives but I don't understand disliking mario honestly. What you never watched a cartoon? I've watched plenty of these boring tomb adventure movies like indiana jones, they were always mind numbingly dull.
Mario, it is all gameplay and fun sound effects, its that way with any mascot platformer. Sonic was better as a franchise before when it was obstacles and goofy cartoon stuff with no drama or story, or evil sonics called shadow, with an epic dramatic storyline... God its ridiculous they killed the sonic franchise, turned it into incoherent nonsense. None of those cartoon platformers have a story its all just gameplay and visuals. Tomb raider is suppose to have a story, but its uninteresting and pointless.

I'm sorry to all TR fans its just an opinion but I don't understand why this is so appealing and why they are making so many sequels asking for 50-60$ each new installment instead of giving us a blood omen or soul reaver sequel. Or giving up on eternal darkness 2, and giving us... Hot chick adventures to bore you to the spine.

Just really wish crystal dynamics who is a great team, would do something a bit more engaging.

[Nax_o]

I played the original a long long time ago. Didn't finish it. Didn't kinda like it but it did give me a craving for 3rd person parkour games. I guess i was expecting there to be better ones in the future. Well there were few to none.

Now much older i have a craving for games like this and good ones don't really exist that are as simple as this one. Generally proper parkour platformers either in 2D or 3D are somewhat rare or then they introduce elements that i don't care about.

So here i am again. starting up this old one and you know what, love the upgraded graphics and nostalgia. i can barely remember anything from back the days so this feels so fresh now in 2020.

[Unseen]

Originally posted by Nax_o:

I played the original a long long time ago. Didn't finish it. Didn't kinda like it but it did give me a craving for 3rd person parkour games. I guess i was expecting there to be better ones in the future. Well there were few to none.

Now much older i have a craving for games like this and good ones don't really exist that are as simple as this one. Generally proper parkour platformers either in 2D or 3D are somewhat rare or then they introduce elements that i don't care about.

So here i am again. starting up this old one and you know what, love the upgraded graphics and nostalgia. i can barely remember anything from back the days so this feels so fresh now in 2020.

Yea I mean I bought it cause I never played the original, well not much just a little. Same with 2 and 3... I wanna kinda like TR but it just feels like tombs and animals. Does it get better at all?

[Nax_o]

Probably not. I look at this from a historical perspective as i recall all the bad similar games out there.

Heck even on 2D side my all time favorite parkour game is Knytt and that has been around for quite some time and few know about it so my opinion can't really be used to explain much of the views of people at large.

[kakiss4]

Originally posted by Swamp Song:

Not trying to catch hate here, I know everyone has their own interests and preferences. But I bought this game I think last year, and I played it a little bit. The games boring... I don't see how this was so famous I start it up, play through the tomb a while, and just get bored. Nothing eventful happens, the combats brief and consists of shooting and jumping. The platformings ok, but there's nothing to really get me into it. Old dusty tomb, and not much else, does it get better?

Was this game famous just cause of a hot chick? Really she wasn't that hot on psx, looked rather stupid to me back then. The movie with angelina was terrible too. Maybe I just don't get archeoligy adventure media I didn't enjoy the indiana jones movies much either. Last crusade was ok cause of sean connery. I dunno this game series just seems dull to me.

Maybe I'm missing something, maybe I didn't play it enough. I got the new TR remake prequel thing, and its kinda boring too even with all those graphics. Is there some kind of hidden reason why this games so acclaimed?

Please don't take offense at this as its just an opinion but I don't really understand the appeal of, lady searches for artifacts, bad men come and wanna hurt her, now she's gotta fight... I just don't get it, in what kinda reality would that even happen and why?

When i first played Tomb Raider 1 & 2, i was too young to like her for the big Boobs.
She had a cool simple Design, holding the two Pistols and the look she gave through the Lenses.

Gameplay and Leveldesign where also really Fun and Tense.
The Mix between Pusszles, Plattforming and Shooting is just Fun!
The Titles is unrealistic and more like a Action Movie with some Fantasy Stuff, some Kind of the Mummie with Brendan Fraser.
So all a Nintees Kid loves.

I also remember, that TR 1 was the first Game ever i shouted out loud because a Pack of Wolves scared the Crap out of me and my Cousin, friggin Jump Scare haha
We where like 9 back than, so it was something new :P

I miss Titles like this nowadays, because many are getting more Cinematic and are holding your hands (just my critic to the newer TR).
Thats also why i just love Doom Eternal so much, it is more about the Gameplay.

[*\WaW/Wans/>>]

i enjoy this game because its puzzle, you need to finish this game.

[Supergirl]

I like it because the puzzles are just challenging enough, the battles/combat is paced well and the patterns take some thought without driving you crazy, and adventure/story is satisfying. I don't care for the newer Tomb Raider series, but it's okay. The older Tomb Raiders are just classic. I remember the original tomb shaped box and quite busty Lara on the cover and thinking, "what is that game, sheesh?" Turned out to be a good series :D

[The Brown Hornet]

Puzzles and platforming. ... That's what people liked

[Dark Redshift]

(Sorry in advance for this overly long post. I didn't mean it to grow so big)

Climbing, jumping, swimming, good stories, shooting and vehicles, the music, secret hunting and exploring the mythology of different cultures is why Tomb Raider is good. I do empaphise with you as you say you got this game instead of the original Tomb Raider 1 and found it boring.

You're right to think that: Anniversary isn't the best Tomb Raider to start with at all. You'll want the original plus the next 5 games for that, as well as Legend, Underworld and the prequel trilogy.

Long rant starts here:

Anniversary wasn't always going to be like this though, as Core Design (the original creators) were working on a much better remake intended for PSP (bear in mind this was intended to come out first in 2006) with graphically enhanced PS2 and PC ports coming after, but Crystal Dynamics and Eidos pulled a Duke Nukem Forever Gearbox on them, rendering the superior Tomb Raider 10th Anniversary Edition (the Core one's title was that long I know) the counterpart to Duke Nukem Forever 2001.

Here's some links to information on the good TR1 remake for better understanding:

https://tomb-of-ash.tumblr.com/tagged/trae

https://www.tomb-of-ash.com/category/tomb-raider/the-10th-anniversary-edition/

https://www.tomb-of-ash.com/cancelled-tr1-anniversary-edition-new-info/

(Unfortunately, the link to the full fan opinion article on the above page is dead now at time of writing)


Design Document for TR10A

https://www.tomb-of-ash.com/exclusivetomb-raider-anniversary-edition/


Core's website information

https://core-design.com/trae_info.html

https://core-design.com/goodies_trae.html


News article about TR10A

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/03/it-felt-like-robbery-tomb-raider-and-the-fall-of-core-design/3/

Extract from the book 20 Years of Tomb Raider about the game. This one is a bit of a doorstopper so I apologise in advance for how long it will make this post. Parts in brackets are largely notes added by me,:

Originally posted by 20 Years of Tomb Raider:

In June of 2006, a video leaked online of an Anniversary Edition of Tomb Raider, intended to pay tribute to the franchise origins a decade on. The game was branded as Tomb Raider 10th Anniversary Edition by Core Design, and came as a surprise to fans and Crystal Dynamics alike, who were also in the process of developing an anniversary tribute (i.e. the crap one we are in the forum of now). Sites hosting the videos were censored by parent company SCi/Eidos rather quickly, and a statement was released, confirming it was official, but cancelled.

(In Jim Sterling's industry mouthpiece mocking voice) "The video of Tomb Raider: 10th Anniversary Edition that appeared on certain sites was an unauthorised release of an internal presentation of a game that was being developed by Core Design until very recently," read the statement on Core's website. "It was running on PSP and used a Core developed engine. However, following a recent review (Eidos/SCi's lack of good taste), this project has been officially cancelled by SCi."

The circumstances around why two tribute games were being developed in parallel aren't exactly clear, even to this day. (they are now, as the Ars Technica article above proves)

"After we'd finished Free Running (Core did the PSP version of that game back in the day for Rebellion, I recommend it and the Steam release), a few of us came up with the idea of a 10th Anniversary game. We started importing Lara and a few original Tomb Raider environments into the Free Running engine using the Free Running control system," said Richard Morton. "We then presented the idea to Gavin Rummery. He loved it and asked us to continue development internally. We actually worked on 10th Anniversary for about 8 months and had a fair chunk of the game in and working on PSP and PS2 with many enhancements over the original Tomb Raider."

(In Jim's industry mocking voice) "We had absolutely no idea," said Crystal Dynamics' Anniversary game director Jason Botta, when asked about the day the Core trailer went online.
Immediately after putting Legend to bed, they were tasked with starting a 10 year tribute (that missed the 10th Anniversary by a whole year). "After we were in production, that video leaked of the PSP one and it hit everyone on the team as a complete surprise."

But just because the game was cancelled didn't mean it would fade into obscurity. "Ever inquisitive, we set out to discover more about the project from the team who were directly responsible for it." recalled Planet Lara webmaster Daniel Barnes. "We arranged interviews with both Richard Morton and Phil Chapman to find out more about the circumstances around this elusive tribute. We were even able to speak with both Gavin Rummery and Adrian Smith about the cancelled title. A few weeks later, an unexpected package arrived in the post. It contained a disk filled with unreleased Anniversary Edition screenshots, cutscenes, animation sequences and a high quality version of the leaked trailer. We couldn't quite believe what we were looking at."

Built upon the Free Running engine (a fully debugged and working Angel of Darkness engine), Core's Anniversary Edition would feature a laundry list of improvements, including higher resolution textures, more detailed geometry, improved lighting, swapping out sprites for 3D models, improved particle effects and a fully skinned and detailed Lara model. The FMV sequences (i.e HD CGI cutscenes, not live action footage like some might think) were redone as in-engine cutscenes, and a new ending was to be added, as well as co-op play over the PSP's WLAN.

Map Enhancements

The Anniversary team went room by room and reevaluated potential improvements for each, determining how to best modernise puzzles or add special events, such as more dramatic enemy reveals or grander puzzle presentations. Enemies that populated each level were also given a refresh; AI improvements let wolves climb ledges, bears slash while standing on their hind legs, and raptors hunt in packs using distraction techniques. Lara could no longer simply use the time-tested strategy of finding high ground and picking off wildlife from above. New baddies were added too, such as giant spiders that would pull Lara into trapdoors, scorpions, piranha, swarms of rats, Skeleton Warriors (cue opening theme clip of that show), gladiators, and a variety of new Atlantean foes. Fresh traps included water jets to knock Lara off traversal paths, lavafalls, toxic gas, and bladed pendulums. Enemies and traps were rearranged to keep the players guessing, even if they'd played the original.

Inventory and Controls

Controls were reworked to be more forgiving (such as adding last chance grabs Free Running and Legend style), fluid and faster, and were inspired by Free Running's parkour flavour. Analogue controls meant pressure sensitive running pr walking and the d-pad would allow a quick selection of weapons, health, flares, or the save game crystals. (Also similar to Legend. Plus TR10A would have combined the PS1 version of both TR1 & TR3's crystals together so the save system wouldn't suck like it did in PS1/Saturn TR1)

Lara would have the ability to combine items from the inventory (TR4 & TR5 style), and new weapons came in the form of desert eagles (yes, two), a sawed off shotgun and a harpoon gun.

A feature was added that allowed Lara to draw a single gun while climbing, and have the option of locking on to two different enemies simultaniously while her feet were planted firmly on the ground. (this was intended for TR1 but was cut and its use in TR10A predates when it appeared at last in Underworld) Other abilities introduced later in the games, such as sprinting, crawling, reverse rolling underwater or shimmying around corners would be implemented to avoid the game feeling dated.

The Treasure Room

The Treasure Room was to be initially hidden from the player within Croft Manor (like the second and third games), but could be accessed after a bit of sleuthing. At the start of the game, players would find half a dragonfly brooch in their inventory. Exploring Croft Manor would yield the second half, transforming it into a key. The key would unlock a secret door next to a lamp with the same symbol. Once inside the treasure room, the player could view Lara's private collection and in turn, be inspired to fill the empty cases. Treasure could be collected in-game, and while the locations would be the same, the payout would vary with each play; these would be themed treasures, Roman coins, shards of a Greek urn and so on. After each level, the player could hop back to the manor to drop off what they'd found. (basically the prequel trilogy relic secret system but 1000 times more awesome than it already is)

16 empty cabinets filled the room and each unlocked a special feature when filled, including weapons, outfits, concept art, and a new play arena, The Lost Tombs. (the Ur example of challenge tombs) The Lost Tombs were intended to be the most prized unlockable feature. Inside the 4 tombs was treasure yielded only by challenges in the form of combat arenas, tricky timed puzzles, and trap traversal runs. Complete them and earn your reward. (They were effectively the Tomb Trials from the PSP port of Legend, except not s.hit)

Lara would be able to trade treasure items with other tomb raiders, again via the PSP WLAN, and the game was designed in a way that encouraged it: it would be very difficult to find everything on your own. (A fun system like a cross between Pokemon cards and the Antiques Roadshow)

Escape from Atlantis

Core's Anniversary Edition was to end with a bombastic new boss battle, something designed but not yet implemented at the time of cancellation. Lara would take on a massive Atlantean War Machine controlled by Natla, described as a God of War style final boss (I think it's more Boaz & The Pod from TR6 crossed with the Kyodai Eggman Robo from Sonic 3 & Knuckles)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1917405870

The level would have begun where the original left off, inside the giant Atlantean pyramid where Lara faced off against a mutated Natla. Upon her assumed escape, a new cutscene would trigger. (This is covered in detail in the design doc link above so I'll leave its extract from the book out)

And finally a couple of said leaked trailers for the game. I've no idea why the first one uses Duel of the Fates from Star Wars, but I think I see the message it's intended to convey now: this is epic and this is even better than TR1, giving us the best of the classics, Legend and showing a taste of what TRAOD should have been like. Bear in mind this is the PSP version and not the graphically enhanced PS2 one so the graphics will look very dated compared to Shadow of the Tomb Raider. (they're no different to Legend and Crystal's Anniversary on PSP actually, but leaning more towards the former as the textures don't suck)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7aY6Y6-HjU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDx-zPH3llE

All of the above would have made TR10AE/TR10A the best Tomb Raider game ever made and the Tomb Raider equal/counterpart to Black Mesa for Half Life 1. We should have gotten Core Design's Black Mesa. Instead, Eidos and Crystal Dynamics gave us Duke Nukem Forever in every sense of the word (making TR10AE DNF 2001).

A fan in the modding community called Teeth made a Core's TR10AE Tribute game (the counterpart to the mod DNF 2013) called TRA Retold that took inspiration from both remakes, and intended to be released in four parts, but he cancelled the mod himself halfway through making the Greece episode, which really grinds my gears as I loved the Peru one and was looking forward to the whole thing.

Released mod of Peru

https://www.aspidetr.com/en/levels/tr-anniversary-retold-part-1/

"Post Mortem" build of the cancelled part 2

https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=214990

With the release of Core's Free Running on Steam, we may see the real TR10AE's engine and source code reverse engineered strife style for that game's engine yet.

Not to peddle other games, but here's the link to Core's Free Running (PC version including Steam port by Rebellion themselves) just so people can see and enjoy Core's last game. (and hopefully coax the source code out of Rebellion so Core Design can get back together and restart TR10A as a fangame).

https://store.steampowered.com/app/254940/Free_Running/

[claudimerro]

Originally posted by Hundezahn:

Originally posted by Swamp Song:

But I just dont find any of them all that fun.

Then what are you doing here? :lunar2019crylaughingpig:

TR is loaded with nostalgia for me. And I always prefered the more realistic style to stuff like Mario or Banjo, don't care if those colorful comic games are mechanically better games.
But I only played the first 3 (because back in the day, you often had to settle with what was there) and the Reboot. Everything in between is just bad.

And I actually prefer the original to Anniversary. Pixel perfect jumping with that human tank has its own special appeal. These more fluid, but still error prone controls just don't cut it. It's like the worst of both worlds, fluid and clunky at the same time.

I remember that in order to do a perfect jump u walked to the edge then tap backwards once and then run+jump. IT never failed :)