One more problem with the trains AI

[ae5]

I already posted several reports about mistakes in path finding algorithms for trains and boats, here is another one:


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2914122286

The train has a possibility to go to any one of the 2 tracks going to the upper loading station. It selects the left one, reaches the fork on the green track and immediately displays exclamation mark and then becomes stack. The mistake is systematic, being observed multiple times on the same save.

It is sad that the developers devote time to garbage (in both direct and indirect sense), but still do not have time (almost 4 years after release) to fix the trains.

[ZILonaut]

You miss proper signaling. You have to split the green area into 2 parts.

BTW trains ALWAYS choose the left side. This is known from the start and a bug that is never corrected.

[John Moridin]

Green means you messed up your signals. You should only have blue and orange, or
at most purple.

You might be unhappy with the way tracks and signalling in the game works. However, it follows specific rules, and the green tells you there is a problem based on those rules.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2893587693
This guide isn't the only way to do trains and signalling. Some people like to make single, and even I do more complicated signalling sometimes so I can fit in more tracks.

[ae5]

Thank you for your suggestions, fellow General Secretaries.

I agree with ZILonaut, that the trains always chosse the left, and this is one of the well know bugs, that developers to the time failed to correct.

Nevertheless, I do not agree with you that I messed with signals. It appeared to be another bug, which mail be called e.g. invisible tail. The problem is: as you see, the train at the down loading station has 2 cisterns. In reality, it has 4. The other 4 were suddenly A) detached from the train; B) made invisible; C) put into the place, where the train with exclamation mark meets them.

It took me quite a number of attempts to discover. The bug is systematic, you may re-create this by yourself:

1. Make a dead end track for trains, but do NOT detach the dead end from the rest of the rail network
2. Put a train there
3. Detach the dead end from the network by putting a semaphore
Result: even if the length of the dead end is much longer than the length of the train, the 2 last wagons will be magically detached and thus create the obstacle outside the dead end.

Since I was able to re-create this is other instances, this is clearly a bug in the software and has nothing to do with my setup of semaphores.

I think devs must admit and fix it.

[Silent_Shadow]

Originally posted by John Moridin:

Green means you messed up your signals. You should only have blue and orange, or at most purple.

You might be unhappy with the way tracks and signalling in the game works. However, it follows specific rules, and the green tells you there is a problem based on those rules.

The block colors do not say anything about whether a block has messed up signals or any other type of train pathing logic issue; they simply differentiate blocks from one another.

At most you could say that later block colors (green, cyan, white) indicate a more complex setup.

[Thomas]

You DID messed up with your signals.
Remove all those signals from X crossings. And make sure your rail block is longer then train.
On your main line train should stop and wait until section on left side is clear of trains.You got 2 trains trying to get to the same loading station. Not sure if choosing rails on right side is possible for that train.
Try that set up with mixed signals on loading stations, chain signals on main line before crossing and regular signals on main line after crossing.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2915743190
Here is example. Loading station is full with 2 trains. Incoming train will have red signal BEFORE rail crossing and will not go there to block another train from leaving loading station.

[John Moridin]

Originally posted by Silent_Shadow:

Originally posted by John Moridin:

Green means you messed up your signals. You should only have blue and orange, or at most purple.

You might be unhappy with the way tracks and signalling in the game works. However, it follows specific rules, and the green tells you there is a problem based on those rules.

The block colors do not say anything about whether a block has messed up signals or any other type of train pathing logic issue; they simply differentiate blocks from one another.

At most you could say that later block colors (green, cyan, white) indicate a more complex setup.

Different shades of the same colour differentiate blocks from each other.

I suppose it is fair to stay that the "later block colours" indicate a more complex setup. However, I don't think there is any valid reason to want that more complex setup since trains will almost likely have the same problem as his do at the moment.

You are a more experienced player so perhaps you know what the colours mean and are able to deal with that more complex setup. However, going by his screenshot, there is no need for that complex signalling. It should be possible to make it orange and blue.

[Thomas]

According from what developer said before different colors only to show different blocks from each other. Orange usually chosen when rails cross each other.
But I am agree trains like to chose left side on crossing and it leads to stupid stuff , like this one:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2722189600
Train was on right side , came to crossing , went left blocking incoming traffic, then went to right side again.Looks like railroad was programmed with left side traffic logic. Good for British people, I guess. But confusing for rest of folks who use right side traffic.

[John Moridin]

You normally use directional signals on double tracks. So they use the bottom track to go left and the top track to go right (or the other way around)

[Thomas]

Originally posted by John Moridin:

You normally use directional signals on double tracks. So they use the bottom track to go left and the top track to go right (or the other way around)

In this simple set up train need to use normal person logic and find simple way to go forward without jumping left and right on rail crossings. Of cause player can spam those direction signals ,but it's just bad path finding logic. I have less problems with trains on latest test builds but it is a problem with train ALWAYS choosing left rail on border posts. You got border post with 3 rails. Left and middle one got trains. Then train on the left went away, middle one still unloading. Another train comes to border point, chooses left side and blocks train in the middle from leaving.

[John Moridin]

You use signals to control what trains do.

I'm so used to using signals to control exactly how trains move that I don't even remember what the signal-less train behaviour is.

It's the "Double track ended with 3-track custom house" here.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1718149719

[ae5]

Originally posted by Thomas:

You DID messed up with your signals.

Hello, Thomas,
I do agree with many of your observations but do not agree with the statement that I messed the signals. After removing the invisible train tail issue, the junction works without problems, I extensively tested it.

I still think that the devs must admit the existence of the invisible train tail bug and fix it.

[kyonkun]

It's not related to your problem but you have a huge number of extraneous signals in your junctions. Every signal in your screenshot that doesn't touch a "blue" block can be deleted and the junction will perform exactly the same as before. Chain signals are also not necessary as trains check the path ahead, rather than relying on the signal.

[Thomas]

Originally posted by kyonkun:

It's not related to your problem but you have a huge number of extraneous signals in your junctions. Every signal in your screenshot that doesn't touch a "blue" block can be deleted and the junction will perform exactly the same as before. Chain signals are also not necessary as trains check the path ahead, rather than relying on the signal.

7 (seven) signals need to be removed.LOL.
Chain signal is necessary before junctions.But normal signal can work too. It what people used before we got chain signal.

[Thomas]

Originally posted by John Moridin:

You use signals to control what trains do.

I'm so used to using signals to control exactly how trains move that I don't even remember what the signal-less train behaviour is.

It's the "Double track ended with 3-track custom house" here.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1718149719

Ya, ya, whatever. This guide is 2 years old . Train behavior was reprogrammed few times after this. Nothing to do with train jumping randomly left on junctions .

[spy movie sex scene]

In response to your post, you've been told your signals are in the wrong place, the signals are the wrong type, there are too few signals, and you have too many signals.

We can at least conclude the steam discussions are a terrible source of information

And lets not even mention the people who think the colors indicate some esoteric warning system