"DOOM Eternal forces you to kill demons a certain way"

[Viddaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LhrcGlPh38

[Ace]

Thank you for providing the evidence that the trolls & toxic purists cannot argue against!

[Skull of a Crowned Athlete]

Originally posted by Viddaz:

"DOOM Eternal forces you to kill demons a certain way"

Yeah. Rock imps require the autoshotty, and the blue spirits require the microbeam, weak points are best destroyed with the HAR scope until you get the ballista... They funnel you into a specific playstyle and make your experience with the game unending torture if you don't want to play the intended way. In the base-game chainsawing is also way too slow, so I had to install a mod to fix that problem.
https://www.nexusmods.com/doometernal/mods/1238
I'm talking about Nightmare by the way, because Ultra-Violence is a bit more lax about these things.
When DE haters complain about "the ammo problem" what they're actually complaining about in reality is ammo acquisition, which will nearly always be achieved through the chainsaw animation. Every enemy that can be chainsawed only has 2 animations... And again, these are very slow in the base game. Ammo acquisition can become repetitive if achieved through the chainsaw animation rather than quickscoping a Maykr Drone.

[Get Out]

Holy FOV....

[potato]

are you a fish

[Steel]

Chess forces you to play each piece a certain way :(
Why can't I win with just pawns? Why is the dev of chess FORCING me to play HIS exact way? The dev team hasn't been alive for centuries and I'm still being forced to play MY chess board THEIR way :(

[Viddaz]

Originally posted by Ace:

Thank you for providing the evidence that the trolls & toxic purists cannot argue against!

There's a lot more coming their way ;) I'll have some content on the channel dedicated to them lol

[Skull of a Crowned Athlete]

Originally posted by Steel:

Chess forces you to play each piece a certain way :(
Why can't I win with just pawns? Why is the dev of chess FORCING me to play HIS exact way? The dev team hasn't been alive for centuries and I'm still being forced to play MY chess board THEIR way :(

If the intended way of play is not entertaining in the slightest then someone is within their full right to voice their displeasure or disinterest. You have to remember chess is turn based as well, not a First Person Shooter video game. Putting "chess elements" in a FPS game might not always work as intended.

[Viddaz]

Originally posted by QvackHead:

Originally posted by Viddaz:

"DOOM Eternal forces you to kill demons a certain way"

Yeah. Rock imps require the autoshotty, and the blue spirits require the microbeam, weak points are best destroyed with the HAR scope until you get the ballista... They funnel you into a specific playstyle and make your experience with the game unending torture if you don't want to play the intended way. In the base-game chainsawing is also way too slow, so I had to install a mod to fix that problem.
https://www.nexusmods.com/doometernal/mods/1238
I'm talking about Nightmare by the way, because Ultra-Violence is a bit more lax about these things.
When DE haters complain about "the ammo problem" what they're actually complaining about in reality is ammo acquisition, which will nearly always be achieved through the chainsaw animation. Every enemy that can be chainsawed only has 2 animations... And again, these are very slow in the base game. Ammo acquisition can become repetitive if achieved through the chainsaw animation rather than quickscoping a Maykr Drone.

Stone imps and the spirit are two elements they introduced in the DLCs that I disliked so I'll agree with you on that (though I do like the concept of the spirit and how it buffs enemies). Especially because I'm a sticky bomb and heat blast enthusiast so having to change mods when those enemies appear gets old.

However the weak point targeting requiring the rifle or the ballista, I have no problem with. If every weapon could destroy weak points, the mechanic would lose its appeal I think. One thing that I'll say about the game is that it "forces" you to swap between weapons, which for some is a criticism. I believe that's one of the game's strengths as it creates a need to adapt to each and every situation which translates into skill.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by QvackHead:

Originally posted by Viddaz:

"DOOM Eternal forces you to kill demons a certain way"

Yeah. Rock imps require the autoshotty,

Not really? Can't remember the last time I used full auto to kill them. Maybe if you're a masochist you can always swap to full auto when they appear, but that's like trying to plasma gun every Doom Hunter you see when you can just instantly blow up his sled instead.

The hammer 1-shots them and is always available to use, they can be chainsawed and the SSG+ballista combo will still kill them fast in trade for using more ammo. Also destroyer blade and micromissiles will melt them. Bash damage from chaingun got nerfed but it also works still. You're not *forced* to use full auto against stone imps, but it is certainly a nice situational bonus because you get extra shotgun ammo by killing them with it.

Spirits also don't require the plasma gun either. You can save them for last and they'll disappear when there are no demons to possess. I just melt each spirited demon until a trash mob gets possessed that can then be ignored.

[Grampire]

Originally posted by QvackHead:

Originally posted by Viddaz:

"DOOM Eternal forces you to kill demons a certain way"

Yeah. Rock imps require the autoshotty, and the blue spirits require the microbeam, weak points are best destroyed with the HAR scope until you get the ballista... They funnel you into a specific playstyle and make your experience with the game unending torture if you don't want to play the intended way. In the base-game chainsawing is also way too slow, so I had to install a mod to fix that problem.
https://www.nexusmods.com/doometernal/mods/1238
I'm talking about Nightmare by the way, because Ultra-Violence is a bit more lax about these things.
When DE haters complain about "the ammo problem" what they're actually complaining about in reality is ammo acquisition, which will nearly always be achieved through the chainsaw animation. Every enemy that can be chainsawed only has 2 animations... And again, these are very slow in the base game. Ammo acquisition can become repetitive if achieved through the chainsaw animation rather than quickscoping a Maykr Drone.

Blue spirits require nothing.

No literally. Not attacking them when they are outside their host is not only a viable strategy- it's often an efficient one. Especially when they possess fodder.

I ignore spirits, and it's made my play more consistent.

Stone imps can be consistently killed with:

• Destroyer Blade (1 shot after second charge)
  
• Micro-Missiles
  
• Sentinel Hammer

In addition to full auto.

As for your commentary about ammo "aquisition" - which seems like semantics - I prefer Eternal's method to needing to hunt for resources and the situational awareness check the chainsaw forces on the player. It tempers giving the player too much power in the form of massive amounts of on-hand ammo with minimizing disruptions to the gameplay.

I think it can be improved further, but it is a dramatic improvement to 2016 and one of the best new features in Eternal. I literally have my ammo count turned off because it's irrelevant in Eternal after you acclimate.

I don't know how learning to not care about your on hand ammo supply could equate to restriction or lack of player freedom, and I'm still waiting for an answer after 4 years.

[Steel]

Originally posted by QvackHead:

Originally posted by Steel:

Chess forces you to play each piece a certain way :(
Why can't I win with just pawns? Why is the dev of chess FORCING me to play HIS exact way? The dev team hasn't been alive for centuries and I'm still being forced to play MY chess board THEIR way :(

If the intended way of play is not entertaining in the slightest then someone is within their full right to voice their displeasure or disinterest. You have to remember chess is turn based as well, not a First Person Shooter video game. Putting "chess elements" in a FPS game might not always work as intended.

If your take on the analogy is that chess is turn based therefore not comparable, you didn't understand the analogy.
If for whatever reason (like not enjoying the game) you refuse to learn how to play the game then you are free to go play something else, or mod the game to your tastes (which in the analogy would be to play a chess variant using the traditional board, which they do exist).

If you still have an issue with the "turn based" aspect, let me reframe the analogy with a different subject so maybe you have more luck.

"Why am I FORCED to use throws on Street Fighter when my opponent blocks? I want to play using fireballs only, but he is blocking everything and I can't do anything without being FORCED to throw, this game is unfair :("

Games have rules and you are by definition "forced" to abide by them, if you fail to do so, you are playing the game wrong and will have to be subject to the consequences of doing so, which if a game is challenging enough or if your opponent in a competitive game is skilled enough, results in losing.

If you still don't understand my point I'll assume you DO understand it and that you are arguing in bad faith.

[Sar]

Clearly the intended way to kill Tyrants is the frag-flame-ice-punch-SSG-Pb-Heat Blast combo and every other way is simply inefficient.

[Skull of a Crowned Athlete]

Originally posted by Steel:

If your take on the analogy is that chess is turn based therefore not comparable

No. I understand your misunderstanding though. Sometimes a game may end up unenjoyable or disinteresting even after learning the ins and outs of it. In fact that seems to be the inevitable conclusion at higher levels of play, regardless of the game in question. Bobby Fischer might've very well been the best chess player in history, and yet...
https://www.chess.com/blog/Mx_Nat/why-bobby-fischer-hated-chess
He eventually developed a disdain for *standard* chess. I understood your analogy perfectly. Every game has rules, but this does not necessarily guarantee an enjoyable experience even if you follow the rules to the letter, like some people seem to think.

And yes, a fast-paced 3-dimensional First Person Shooter is not really comparable to a traditional turn-based board game like chess. This should be obvious to anyone. They are both "games" by definition, and they both have rules. This is where the similarities between chess and Doom ends.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg_y6Uv7kvQ
I know I'm not the best Doom player, I'm not *that* arrogant. My aim in particular is garbage because I'm using a standing desk while playing instead of sitting down in a chair. I also used to be better at Doom Eternal a few years ago when it first came out. It still seems that the best way to DPS demons is SSG + Ballista for most circumstances. On my very first playthrough I figured out that "combo" at Arc Complex already.

This gameplay is from "Slaughter Campaign Act I (Original)" which can be found on Nexus Mods. Quite difficult on Nightmare but also reasonable due to the Maykr Drones and the floating meathook things.

[Sar]

Originally posted by QvackHead:

Originally posted by Steel:

If your take on the analogy is that chess is turn based therefore not comparable

No. I understand your misunderstanding though. Sometimes a game may end up unenjoyable or disinteresting even after learning the ins and outs of it. In fact that seems to be the inevitable conclusion at higher levels of play, regardless of the game in question. Bobby Fischer might've very well been the best chess player in history, and yet...
https://www.chess.com/blog/Mx_Nat/why-bobby-fischer-hated-chess
He eventually developed a disdain for *standard* chess. I understood your analogy perfectly. Every game has rules, but this does not necessarily guarantee an enjoyable experience even if you follow the rules to the letter, like some people seem to think.

And yes, a fast-paced 3-dimensional First Person Shooter is not really comparable to a traditional turn-based board game like chess. This should be obvious to anyone. They are both "games" by definition, and they both have rules. This is where the similarities between chess and Doom ends.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg_y6Uv7kvQ
I know I'm not the best Doom player, I'm not *that* arrogant. My aim in particular is garbage because I'm using a standing desk while playing instead of sitting down in a chair. I also used to be better at Doom Eternal a few years ago when it first came out. It still seems that the best way to DPS demons is SSG + Ballista for most circumstances. On my very first playthrough I figured out that "combo" at Arc Complex already.

This gameplay is from "Slaughter Campaign Act I (Original)" which can be found on Nexus Mods. Quite difficult on Nightmare but also reasonable due to the Maykr Drones and the floating meathook things.

SSG-Ballista isn’t the best DPS, but congrats to you for beating what looks like a fairly challenging map!

[Skull of a Crowned Athlete]

Originally posted by Sar:

SSG-Ballista isn’t the best DPS, but congrats to you for beating what looks like a fairly challenging map!

Thanks. Wait... You're not Steel!