Uninstalled and Refund requested

[marclnelson]

I uninstalled this nightmare before the update could install and I BEG anyone not happy about this to do the same. Just get rid of it and wait. If they see their playerbase evaporate overnight they’ll get the picture.

I purchased DE a month ago but only played it an hour and a half due to unexpected life stuff as a result of the pandemic. So I have requested a refund. I’ve been a Steam user since 2004. My game library is massive. I’ve poured thousands upon thousands of dollars into my game library. Not *once* have I requested a refund on Steam until now. So I’m not letting this go. I have all the screenshots, this third party software was never advertised on Steam’s storefront. It still isn’t. This is a major security risk to legitimate customers. A third party exe from a disreputable company running within another executable should NEVER have kernel level access like this. Windows shouldn’t even allow it and it’s why your Antivirus will try to block it. It IS a virus. I’m not taking “honest, we promise, we love screwing.. I mean we just love, our customers!!” Bethesda’s word that this software doesn’t compromise systems outside the Doom executable. The low level privileges mean it’s impossible to tell what this garbage is doing to your computer and what gaping holes it’s leaving.

I’ve bought every Doom game on a dozen different platforms multiple times since the original launched on DOS. I’ve poured tons of money and love into this franchise. Bethesda was SO close to finally having a win and just couldn’t stand it. They had to find some way to screw the paying customers, I swear they are a cult of wealthy bro sadists who hate gaming, and ruin a beloved franchise. I’m out. And I’m not letting up with Steam until I get a refund. This third party security risk software was not advertised or included when I forked over my hard earned dollars during a global pandemic. I’m out with Doom. It’s dead and trying to take PC gaming with it .

[Kyller92 AKA Cinos]

You know Doom 3 also uses kernel mode anti-cheat, right?

[Doktor Mandrake]

You wont get a refund as you've gone over the 2 week period since purchase

[OutSeal]

did the same

while i didn't really care about the basic denuvo anti tamper

it just does not sit well with me that they add a ring 0 third party program
1) after release without ever mentioning this in the eula
2) without my permission obviusly

[Dingus]

For the record, you can still apply for a refund even after the 2 hours/2 weeks time frame.

[HighLanderPony]

tl;dr Tearful Dear Diary story.
You refunded, it's cool, we get it, have a nice day!

[Whar❓]

Originally posted by Kyller92 AKA Cinos FR:

You know Doom 3 also uses kernel mode anti-cheat, right?

1. I'm pretty sure Doom 3 used the anti-tamper, not the anti-cheat
2. If it did use the anti cheat, then it definitely wasn't kernel level like this one is

[Doktor Mandrake]

Originally posted by Dr. JamJams:

Originally posted by Kyller92 AKA Cinos FR:

You know Doom 3 also uses kernel mode anti-cheat, right?

1. I'm pretty sure Doom 3 used the anti-tamper, not the anti-cheat
2. If it did use the anti cheat, then it definitely wasn't kernel level like this one is

You know Denuvo wasnt a thing when Doom 3 came out, right?

[Kyller92 AKA Cinos]

Originally posted by Dr. JamJams:

Originally posted by Kyller92 AKA Cinos FR:

You know Doom 3 also uses kernel mode anti-cheat, right?

1. I'm pretty sure Doom 3 used the anti-tamper, not the anti-cheat
2. If it did use the anti cheat, then it definitely wasn't kernel level like this one is

It uses Punkbuster which is a Kernel-mode anti cheat, which was also added few months after the launch of Doom 3 by the way.
I don't like this either and, in the ideal world, things like this would open the eyes of players and they would realize that, actually, most multiplayer games are using ring-0 anti-cheats...

[marclnelson]

Originally posted by Doktor Mandrake:

You wont get a refund as you've gone over the 2 week period since purchase

.

I better. There’s laws about this stuff and DE has retroactively forced potentially harmful third party software NOT disclosed on Steam’s storefront. This is third party software that didn’t even exist a few days ago and has had ZERO vetting as to it’s safety. And kernal level “device driver” scanners like this are being flagged as a virus for good reason. None of us know what this software will do and it was not disclosed by the retailer who bears the burden of non-deceptive advertising when it comes to issuing refunds.

As to over two weeks, I can prove a family member was sick, I lost my job like a lot of people and I was not able to use the product in my intended time frame due to personal crisises resulting from a global pandemic. I’m well under 2 hours played so if Steam wants to fight me on timeframe let them. I’m sure the EU will be interested on how Steam is not disclosing attached third party software and not issuing refunds based on time-frame technicalities during a global health crisis. I’m not letting this go and I’ve got plenty of time on my hands.

[marclnelson]

Originally posted by HighLanderPony:

tl;dr Tearful Dear Diary story.
You refunded, it's cool, we get it, have a nice day!

Good day to you. Enjoy the virus you paid for :)

[Doktor Mandrake]

Originally posted by marclnelson:

Originally posted by Doktor Mandrake:

You wont get a refund as you've gone over the 2 week period since purchase

.

I better. There’s laws about this stuff and DE has retroactively forced potentially harmful third party software NOT disclosed on Steam’s storefront. This is third party software that didn’t even exist a few days ago and has had ZERO vetting as to it’s safety. And kernal level “device driver” scanners like this are being flagged as a virus for good reason. None of us know what this software will do and it was not disclosed by the retailer who bears the burden of non-deceptive advertising when it comes to issuing refunds.

As to over two weeks, I can prove a family member was sick, I lost my job like a lot of people and I was not able to use the product in my intended time frame due to personal crisises resulting from a global pandemic. I’m well under 2 hours played so if Steam wants to fight me on timeframe let them. I’m sure the EU will be interested on how Steam is not disclosing attached third party software and not issuing refunds based on time-frame technicalities during a global health crisis. I’m not letting this go and I’ve got plenty of time on my hands.

Sure, ok

But still.. dont get your hope's up

[marclnelson]

Originally posted by Kyller92 AKA Cinos FR:

Originally posted by Dr. JamJams:

1. I'm pretty sure Doom 3 used the anti-tamper, not the anti-cheat
2. If it did use the anti cheat, then it definitely wasn't kernel level like this one is

It uses Punkbuster which is a Kernel-mode anti cheat, which was also added few months after the launch of Doom 3 by the way.
I don't like this either and, in the ideal world, things like this would open the eyes of players and they would realize that, actually, most multiplayer games are using ring-0 anti-cheats... :squirtmeh:

Punkbuster has a looong history of use. I actually bought Doom 3 at launch and uninstalled it when PB was added. Over time consumers learned what it was and wasn’t doing to their systems and could make an informed decision on whether they want it on their systems. At this point we know PB is safe. Not effective, like none of these solutions will ever be, but safe. Paying customers are now guinea pigs for Denuvo Anti-cheat. It just launched. No one knows what garbage it’s doing. It could be Starforce (the DRM that BRICKED DVD drives) all over again. I wasn’t informed of nor did I consent to testing this third party software when I purchased the game because it was not disclosed on Steam’s storefront

[marclnelson]

The Steam subreddit instantly deleted what follows. If anyone’s interested, they denied the initial request and the Steam subreddit immediately blocked this. I legitimately just want help pursuing a just outcome:

So about a month ago I bought Doom Eternal at full price on Steam. I launched it for an hour but then after having already lost my job a close family member got very ill with Covid-19. It was a lot to deal with and I never played it. Now the game has updated to force an experimental rootkit Anticheat system by Denuvo. Kernal level, untested in the public. This nor any other required third party software was ever disclosed by Valve at time of purchase. I’m using my computer for what little freelance work I can get so I can not take the security risk of something like that right now. So I uninstalled and requested a refund since I’m well under 2 hours played. They are denying it because it’s over 2 weeks. During a global health crisis where people are going through all kinds of horrible unexpected disruptions to life, health, livelihood and routines. I’ve been on Steam 16 years and have bought thousands of games from them. Not once have I ever requested a refund before. What recourse is there? Am I really going to have to abandon the platform over one legitimate return request? The least Valve could do during this crisis is loosen the return window if a game went unplayed. I’m reaching out to journalists and anyone who might know anything about legal action or at least regulatory action against Valve for these practices.
Thank you. I’ve been a fervent supporter for 16 years. I put money aside to buy an Index but decided to wait until all this is over. No more. I’m taking my luck with the competitors from here. There really is no reason to buy Steam anymore BUT misguided loyalty. I feel like a complete rube and heartbroken they treat customers this way

[Sonicus]

You will not get the refund. I already tried and they will deny it on the 2 hour limit basis.

I've been looking how to contact Valve to ask is this really how they operate and they condone malware installations past the 2h limits, but they simply don't give you any other ways to contact them.

This is a huge pile of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and they know it, but want to wash their hands of it.

[Kyller92 AKA Cinos]

Originally posted by marclnelson:

Originally posted by Kyller92 AKA Cinos FR:

It uses Punkbuster which is a Kernel-mode anti cheat, which was also added few months after the launch of Doom 3 by the way.
I don't like this either and, in the ideal world, things like this would open the eyes of players and they would realize that, actually, most multiplayer games are using ring-0 anti-cheats...

Punkbuster has a looong history of use. I actually bought Doom 3 at launch and uninstalled it when PB was added. Over time consumers learned what it was and wasn’t doing to their systems and could make an informed decision on whether they want it on their systems. At this point we know PB is safe. Not effective, like none of these solutions will ever be, but safe. Paying customers are now guinea pigs for Denuvo Anti-cheat. It just launched. No one knows what garbage it’s doing. It could be Starforce (the DRM that BRICKED DVD drives) all over again. I wasn’t informed of nor did I consent to testing this third party software when I purchased the game because it was not disclosed on Steam’s storefront

First, just to be clear, I'm not defending DAC, it's indeed a bad situation. However, what's happening right now is the exact same situation that happened with Doom 3. Paying customers were also guinea pigs for Punkbuster. The only reason people realized it was harmless was because, as sad as it is, they didn't have a choice. And they saw, after using it, that it was harmless. (And it wasn't that safe but well...) So I wouldn't be surprised that the situation repeat itself again, like EAC, like BattlEye or in the worst case, until some computers end damaged like Starforce or Securom.

Originally posted by Sonicus:

You will not get the refund. I already tried and they will deny it on the 2 hour limit basis.

I've been looking how to contact Valve to ask is this really how they operate and they condone malware installations past the 2h limits, but they simply don't give you any other ways to contact them.

This is a huge pile of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and they know it, but want to wash their hands of it.

The issue is that this current situation happened hundreds of times already since... well... the launch of Steam. And they never did anything. I honestly don't see why this would be different here. But who knows.