Battlemode, which side is more op

[Dusk]

So many complaints on which side is more op on battlemode, slayer or demon since the launch.

If both are getting accused, then that's balanced

I think its a blast either way, i get everyone's opinions but this is what I think :P

( lag will be fixed soon so I guess we will all really know then )

[Peng]

I honestly think the balance complaints come from different skill levels, a mediocre slayer will get eaten by a marauder/pain elemental combo, but demons not working together will get destroyed by a mid-high skill slayer, if you find matches close to your skill level its incredible and honestly some of the best multiplayer I've played in a long time. But before I "got gud" at both roles, there were many matches where I was being mopped with the floor by better players. Sadly I think that it drives away too many players that are trying to learn, maybe adding a option to test matches with AI of various difficulty levels could be a good intro to it.

[Dusk]

Messaggio originale di Peng:

I honestly think the balance complaints come from different skill levels, a mediocre slayer will get eaten by a marauder/pain elemental combo, but demons not working together will get destroyed by a mid-high skill slayer, if you find matches close to your skill level its incredible and honestly some of the best multiplayer I've played in a long time. But before I "got gud" at both roles, there were many matches where I was being mopped with the floor by better players. Sadly I think that it drives away too many players that are trying to learn, maybe adding a option to test matches with AI of various difficulty levels could be a good intro to it.

Exactly, well written

[Osir1s]

Demons are OP. The game was somewhat balanced before the update a couple weeks ago that nerfed the ballista and lock-on rockets damage. 50 less damage on the ballista adds up VERY quick. Lock on rockets went from 900 to 600 damage, crazy nerf.

I play almost solely as slayer because I wanted to get good at it just in case a Duel (slayer vs slayer) or TDM mode comes out I'll be better prepared for it.

At level 126, I can still get destroyed by even significantly lower ranked demons that are on discord and know how to sync their abilities.

Demons can get destroyed if they're uncoordinated or just fairly new to the game, but demons who've played together a while are almost unbeatable.

Demon's abilities have very short cooldowns. For example, it's extremely hard to catch an Archvile who's running away; they'll just flamewall and then teleport away to a vantage point that takes too long to get to.

Marauder's movement is insanely fast and unpredictable, especially with how laggy the game is.

The Demon's upgrades (in between rounds) are FAR better than the slayer's, specially the tactician, and the Team Heal. Nothing worse than downing a demon's health to 1 HP when BAM, they have half their HP at the click of a button.

Loot blocking is incredibly annoying, because any non-noob knows to do it only when they hear the chainsaw, which will deprive of you of all ammo.

I could go on forever really. The slayer needs perfect aim, movement, reflexes, agility, experience, etc.

That being said, with my little experience as a demons, I'll usually go with the Revenant if I do play demon, and although he's one of the worst in my opinion, I'll STILL win the vast majority of games with him. THAT'S how OP demons are.

[Average AMD neanderthal]

Messaggio originale di Shock3r-:

Demons are OP. The game was somewhat balanced before the update a couple weeks ago that nerfed the ballista and lock-on rockets damage. 50 less damage on the ballista adds up VERY quick. Lock on rockets went from 900 to 600 damage, crazy nerf.

I play almost solely as slayer because I wanted to get good at it just in case a Duel (slayer vs slayer) or TDM mode comes out I'll be better prepared for it.

At level 126, I can still get destroyed by even significantly lower ranked demons that are on discord and know how to sync their abilities.

Demons can get destroyed if they're uncoordinated or just fairly new to the game, but demons who've played together a while are almost unbeatable.

Demon's abilities have very short cooldowns. For example, it's extremely hard to catch an Archvile who's running away; they'll just flamewall and then teleport away to a vantage point that takes too long to get to.

Marauder's movement is insanely fast and unpredictable, especially with how laggy the game is.

The Demon's upgrades (in between rounds) are FAR better than the slayer's, specially the tactician, and the Team Heal. Nothing worse than downing a demon's health to 1 HP when BAM, they have half their HP at the click of a button.

Loot blocking is incredibly annoying, because any non-noob knows to do it only when they hear the chainsaw, which will deprive of you of all ammo.

I could go on forever really. The slayer needs perfect aim, movement, reflexes, agility, experience, etc.

That being said, with my little experience as a demons, I'll usually go with the Revenant if I do play demon, and although he's one of the worst in my opinion, I'll STILL win the vast majority of games with him. THAT'S how OP demons are.

the demons were slaughtered by ballista+sniper and rocket launcher strats until the latest patch. i believe it was a nerf pointed towards the right direction, but the rocket launcher just simply doesn't threaten demons at this point anymore. the damage gap is too big.

another issue is the lag. any idea how fun it is to try and connect hitscan weapons against teleporting foes while also under pressure? this used to be sort of migitated by the 1k damage of ballista+sniper, and the rocket launcher being projectile based with strong AOE damage, but not anymore. you'll need alot more hits. and thanks to the lag, that's why the slayer currently suffers. almost every demon attack is projectile based and has atleast a slight level of AOE. perfect for desync. this is why the demons prosper now that the slayer needs to hit more often with hitscan weapons, while the lag still persists.

conclusion: the biggest foe of everyone is the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ass servers. as it always has been.

[Burgerpunk 2020]

The one that the lag favors at any moment

Battlemode? More like battleships mode

[Skull of a Crowned Athlete]

If demons are on discord, are very skilled and have been playing for 200 hours then they may beat a decent slayer.

[m550]

demons, but sometimes doomslayers mastered on Ballista/Rocket Launcher/SSG combo.

not perfect, but it balanced some stats in specific way.

[FleeingPeon]

Messaggio originale di Shock3r-:

Demons are OP. The game was somewhat balanced before the update a couple weeks ago that nerfed the ballista and lock-on rockets damage. 50 less damage on the ballista adds up VERY quick. Lock on rockets went from 900 to 600 damage, crazy nerf.

I play almost solely as slayer because I wanted to get good at it just in case a Duel (slayer vs slayer) or TDM mode comes out I'll be better prepared for it.

At level 126, I can still get destroyed by even significantly lower ranked demons that are on discord and know how to sync their abilities.

Demons can get destroyed if they're uncoordinated or just fairly new to the game, but demons who've played together a while are almost unbeatable.

Demon's abilities have very short cooldowns. For example, it's extremely hard to catch an Archvile who's running away; they'll just flamewall and then teleport away to a vantage point that takes too long to get to.

Marauder's movement is insanely fast and unpredictable, especially with how laggy the game is.

The Demon's upgrades (in between rounds) are FAR better than the slayer's, specially the tactician, and the Team Heal. Nothing worse than downing a demon's health to 1 HP when BAM, they have half their HP at the click of a button.

Loot blocking is incredibly annoying, because any non-noob knows to do it only when they hear the chainsaw, which will deprive of you of all ammo.

I could go on forever really. The slayer needs perfect aim, movement, reflexes, agility, experience, etc.

That being said, with my little experience as a demons, I'll usually go with the Revenant if I do play demon, and although he's one of the worst in my opinion, I'll STILL win the vast majority of games with him. THAT'S how OP demons are.

Well at least for me (and yes i know 100 hours in the game) playing the slayer even with the update is still kinda easy, because unless im playing against horrible demons, im winning about 70 to 80% of my games. A few times i may come across some extrememly good demons who can 3-0 or 3-1 me.

As far as what you said, most of is pretty correct but there are a few things people can do to be better with the slayer like faking out a look block by meathooking a fodder while the enemy is looking.(this wont work all the time but a lot of the time it can) As well the remote detonation mod for the rocket launcher is also a great weapon to use. the chaingun shield is usefulll as well because it can get you out of a sticky situation.

I will say that the team heal is quite powerfull, especially if the demons are using shields as they can just use the shield and wait for the cooldown to run out so they can use it again. But overall with enough quick thinking most people can win a high amount of their slayer games(other than 2 PE because thats just too stupidly overpowered

[Skull of a Crowned Athlete]

Messaggio originale di FleeingPeon:

But overall with enough quick thinking most people can win a high amount of their slayer games(other than 2 PE because thats just too stupidly overpowered

2 PE's? Ez, just have them taste their own medicin. Chaingun shield mod is incredibly fun to use against pain elementals.

[FleeingPeon]

Messaggio originale di QuckHead:

Messaggio originale di FleeingPeon:

But overall with enough quick thinking most people can win a high amount of their slayer games(other than 2 PE because thats just too stupidly overpowered

2 PE's? Ez, just have them taste their own medicin. Chaingun shield mod is incredibly fun to use against pain elementals.

Yea true I probably just overreacted thinking about having to deal with 2 shields coming directly at you.

[xenon]

Messaggio originale di Shock3r-:

Demons are OP.

I play almost solely as slayer

Go play against a Slayer who knows how to use more than 2 braincells.

[Skull of a Crowned Athlete]

Messaggio originale di PandréTheYandere:

Messaggio originale di Shock3r-:

Demons are OP. The game was somewhat balanced before the update a couple weeks ago that nerfed the ballista and lock-on rockets damage. 50 less damage on the ballista adds up VERY quick. Lock on rockets went from 900 to 600 damage, crazy nerf.

I play almost solely as slayer because I wanted to get good at it just in case a Duel (slayer vs slayer) or TDM mode comes out I'll be better prepared for it.

At level 126, I can still get destroyed by even significantly lower ranked demons that are on discord and know how to sync their abilities.

Demons can get destroyed if they're uncoordinated or just fairly new to the game, but demons who've played together a while are almost unbeatable.

Demon's abilities have very short cooldowns. For example, it's extremely hard to catch an Archvile who's running away; they'll just flamewall and then teleport away to a vantage point that takes too long to get to.

Marauder's movement is insanely fast and unpredictable, especially with how laggy the game is.

The Demon's upgrades (in between rounds) are FAR better than the slayer's, specially the tactician, and the Team Heal. Nothing worse than downing a demon's health to 1 HP when BAM, they have half their HP at the click of a button.

Loot blocking is incredibly annoying, because any non-noob knows to do it only when they hear the chainsaw, which will deprive of you of all ammo.

I could go on forever really. The slayer needs perfect aim, movement, reflexes, agility, experience, etc.

That being said, with my little experience as a demons, I'll usually go with the Revenant if I do play demon, and although he's one of the worst in my opinion, I'll STILL win the vast majority of games with him. THAT'S how OP demons are.

the demons were slaughtered by ballista+sniper and rocket launcher strats until the latest patch. i believe it was a nerf pointed towards the right direction, but the rocket launcher just simply doesn't threaten demons at this point anymore. the damage gap is too big.

another issue is the lag. any idea how fun it is to try and connect hitscan weapons against teleporting foes while also under pressure? this used to be sort of migitated by the 1k damage of ballista+sniper, and the rocket launcher being projectile based with strong AOE damage, but not anymore. you'll need alot more hits. and thanks to the lag, that's why the slayer currently suffers. almost every demon attack is projectile based and has atleast a slight level of AOE. perfect for desync. this is why the demons prosper now that the slayer needs to hit more often with hitscan weapons, while the lag still persists.

conclusion: the biggest foe of everyone is the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ass servers. as it always has been.

Ye, they nerfed ballista by 50 Damage but lock on rockets by 100 lmao. Lock on was trash against good demons anyway because you could just go to the nearest cover and none of the rockets would hit you.

[FleeingPeon]

Messaggio originale di QuckHead:

Messaggio originale di PandréTheYandere:

the demons were slaughtered by ballista+sniper and rocket launcher strats until the latest patch. i believe it was a nerf pointed towards the right direction, but the rocket launcher just simply doesn't threaten demons at this point anymore. the damage gap is too big.

another issue is the lag. any idea how fun it is to try and connect hitscan weapons against teleporting foes while also under pressure? this used to be sort of migitated by the 1k damage of ballista+sniper, and the rocket launcher being projectile based with strong AOE damage, but not anymore. you'll need alot more hits. and thanks to the lag, that's why the slayer currently suffers. almost every demon attack is projectile based and has atleast a slight level of AOE. perfect for desync. this is why the demons prosper now that the slayer needs to hit more often with hitscan weapons, while the lag still persists.

conclusion: the biggest foe of everyone is the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ass servers. as it always has been.

Ye, they nerfed ballista by 50 Damage but lock on rockets by 100 lmao. Lock on was trash against good demons anyway because you could just go to the nearest cover and none of the rockets would hit you.

Well you could always just fire a rocket as your going into cover or going under something then blow it up once its near where they are no?

[spearten.com]

It's balanced for a Skilled Slayer vs. two communicating demons. With that said, I think it does a lot of good, but balance issues are for both sides.

Rather than saying one side is completely OP, there are elements of each that must be mentioned.

Despite the damage nerfs on the Slayer's end, I find myself still competently winning a lot of matches as slayer against all kinds of player levels. Sometimes I lose because I play against smart demons that time their blocks very well and know how to use the map layout to their advantage.

Other times I die because of lag, but that is an issue that needs a lot of attention rn.

Anyways, I can still stack Balista+Precision shot for 950 damage really quick, combine with rockets or shotgun depending on range and sometimes I just keep distance and pick off as much damage as possible. What hurts demons here are some maps that are too open, like Celestial for example. EZ for a slayer to chip off large chunks of demon health from a distance because the demons lack a lot of cover in areas, segregating them to certain areas of the map unless they can properly put the slayer in an uncomfortable position.

Despite the Lock-on nerf, it still does good damage for something that's a guaranteed hit unless they have cover. There is also remote detonation with its mastery that has a massive AOE to get any demon off your tail.

The energy shield is another great thing to mention for defense.

With all that in mind for the slayer, I think that some map design lends him to being a little OP. If a map is too open, it's easy for the slayer to take off large amounts of health from a distance while also maintaining that distance from the demons.

With the demons on the other hand, there are a few things like the ridiculous cooldown on the pain elemental shield combined with some pretty high-damage projectiles that also have some splash damage that can chip a slayer's health down very quick. Shooting remote detonation at the back of the PE barely does enough damage to counter this, and a PE can dash backwards behind a building to get away very quick and have his shield back by the time the slayer catches up. PE simply is just too frustrating in that regard to fight against. The archvile is much more fair because the shield has to be tactically placed depending on the situation. Do you want to block his path, protect yourself or set him up to take more damage by changing his route? This is much more engaging than a 4-second cooldown shield that protects you from everything you look at. A skilled PE can escape the slayer consistently and wittle his health away with another demon. Two PEs can ruin a Slayer's day. I think it just isn't really fair that it can attack while shielding. If that wasn't a thing the PE would be much more fair to fight against. It could still launch its shield but that should be it. He gets a lot of offensive power for such a powerful defensive ability. I think that anybody who says demons are OP can at least see what I'm saying.

There is also the Maruader's wolf, which seems to be VERY laggy. A lot of times you'll shoot it with a Balista or something else powerful and it doesn't even die, or it will hit you from way too far away. It's almost guaranteed damage in certain scenarios, especially when the focus is on the player demons.

Other than that, I think the other demons are fine and fair. Some have really good abilities. The Rev in particular is pretty high skill because he might seem a bit weak for newcomers but I've seen skilled players destroy me at times with it. The Mancubus has a very high damage flamethrower but is limited by range. A unique thing he can do is stack smoke speed with haste to go twice as fast which is fun AF.

In general, there are some flaws with the upgrade choices between rounds, namely the issue is that there are obvious choices for me. As a slayer, I want to chainsaw faster and use flame belch faster. I need the resources to survive and usually there is little opportunity for glory kills unless they spawn a cacodemon (which is a bad idea a lot of times). The other options are not bad, but I need to have those boosts because they objectively increase my chances of surviving.

For demons, I almost always end up taking Bigger Bar at some point. It just feels needed with how slayers can use quick switch to knock you down fast. Then I'll get one of the unique abilities the demons have varied by which demon it is.

For overtime, Insta-heal is the obvious choice. It is superior to the other choices. Spawning a Baron is pointless. Barons are the easiest enemy to avoid and are only good at body blocking both teams. Speaking of, it is so annoying that demons can't push AI demons out of the way. I get stuck on them so much. Insta-revive is a good option but like I said, Insta-heal is better because it can be used as a crutch for both player demons by pressuring the slayer intensely and using their insta-heals to get out scot-free.

For slayer overtime, it's just a choice between BFG or Sentinel Armor. The others are not as useful.

Lastly, I wanna talk about some of the summons. Some of the summons are ass. WHO THE HELL WOULD SPAWN A MAKYR DRONE?! It's like saying "Here Mr. Slayer, your free full health and extra ammo refill". That is an awful decision. It only helps the slayer, its projectiles suck so there is nothing positive about it.

Another bad summon is the stationary riot shield zombies. Anything that spawns a 1 pip chainsaw enemy is not a good idea. Even if you set them up at the teleporters, it's just more opportunity for the slayer to get ammo. Bad idea.

The cacodemon is also a free glory kill. You know the drill, 1 grenade and free health. Not a good spawn and only good for body-blocking the slayer.

The Baron as I stated earlier is not a good summon. Especially if you choose it over insta-health. Dreadknights pose a much larger threat to slayers and would be a far better summon. Carcass is a great summon but you can't move through its shield. Hell Knight is good for distractions.

Overall I think it can be pretty balanced but both sides have some things that make them very strong in certain situations and map design plays a lot into these elements. But some things are actually really weak and not worth taking.

[FleeingPeon]

Messaggio originale di Ryan, Acquirer of Toes:

It's balanced for a Skilled Slayer vs. two communicating demons. With that said, I think it does a lot of good, but balance issues are for both sides.

Rather than saying one side is completely OP, there are elements of each that must be mentioned.

Despite the damage nerfs on the Slayer's end, I find myself still competently winning a lot of matches as slayer against all kinds of player levels. Sometimes I lose because I play against smart demons that time their blocks very well and know how to use the map layout to their advantage.

Other times I die because of lag, but that is an issue that needs a lot of attention rn.

Anyways, I can still stack Balista+Precision shot for 950 damage really quick, combine with rockets or shotgun depending on range and sometimes I just keep distance and pick off as much damage as possible. What hurts demons here are some maps that are too open, like Celestial for example. EZ for a slayer to chip off large chunks of demon health from a distance because the demons lack a lot of cover in areas, segregating them to certain areas of the map unless they can properly put the slayer in an uncomfortable position.

Despite the Lock-on nerf, it still does good damage for something that's a guaranteed hit unless they have cover. There is also remote detonation with its mastery that has a massive AOE to get any demon off your tail.

The energy shield is another great thing to mention for defense.

With all that in mind for the slayer, I think that some map design lends him to being a little OP. If a map is too open, it's easy for the slayer to take off large amounts of health from a distance while also maintaining that distance from the demons.

With the demons on the other hand, there are a few things like the ridiculous cooldown on the pain elemental shield combined with some pretty high-damage projectiles that also have some splash damage that can chip a slayer's health down very quick. Shooting remote detonation at the back of the PE barely does enough damage to counter this, and a PE can dash backwards behind a building to get away very quick and have his shield back by the time the slayer catches up. PE simply is just too frustrating in that regard to fight against. The archvile is much more fair because the shield has to be tactically placed depending on the situation. Do you want to block his path, protect yourself or set him up to take more damage by changing his route? This is much more engaging than a 4-second cooldown shield that protects you from everything you look at. A skilled PE can escape the slayer consistently and wittle his health away with another demon. Two PEs can ruin a Slayer's day. I think it just isn't really fair that it can attack while shielding. If that wasn't a thing the PE would be much more fair to fight against. It could still launch its shield but that should be it. He gets a lot of offensive power for such a powerful defensive ability. I think that anybody who says demons are OP can at least see what I'm saying.

There is also the Maruader's wolf, which seems to be VERY laggy. A lot of times you'll shoot it with a Balista or something else powerful and it doesn't even die, or it will hit you from way too far away. It's almost guaranteed damage in certain scenarios, especially when the focus is on the player demons.

Other than that, I think the other demons are fine and fair. Some have really good abilities. The Rev in particular is pretty high skill because he might seem a bit weak for newcomers but I've seen skilled players destroy me at times with it. The Mancubus has a very high damage flamethrower but is limited by range. A unique thing he can do is stack smoke speed with haste to go twice as fast which is fun AF.

In general, there are some flaws with the upgrade choices between rounds, namely the issue is that there are obvious choices for me. As a slayer, I want to chainsaw faster and use flame belch faster. I need the resources to survive and usually there is little opportunity for glory kills unless they spawn a cacodemon (which is a bad idea a lot of times). The other options are not bad, but I need to have those boosts because they objectively increase my chances of surviving.

For demons, I almost always end up taking Bigger Bar at some point. It just feels needed with how slayers can use quick switch to knock you down fast. Then I'll get one of the unique abilities the demons have varied by which demon it is.

For overtime, Insta-heal is the obvious choice. It is superior to the other choices. Spawning a Baron is pointless. Barons are the easiest enemy to avoid and are only good at body blocking both teams. Speaking of, it is so annoying that demons can't push AI demons out of the way. I get stuck on them so much. Insta-revive is a good option but like I said, Insta-heal is better because it can be used as a crutch for both player demons by pressuring the slayer intensely and using their insta-heals to get out scot-free.

For slayer overtime, it's just a choice between BFG or Sentinel Armor. The others are not as useful.

Lastly, I wanna talk about some of the summons. Some of the summons are ass. WHO THE HELL WOULD SPAWN A MAKYR DRONE?! It's like saying "Here Mr. Slayer, your free full health and extra ammo refill". That is an awful decision. It only helps the slayer, its projectiles suck so there is nothing positive about it.

Another bad summon is the stationary riot shield zombies. Anything that spawns a 1 pip chainsaw enemy is not a good idea. Even if you set them up at the teleporters, it's just more opportunity for the slayer to get ammo. Bad idea.

The cacodemon is also a free glory kill. You know the drill, 1 grenade and free health. Not a good spawn and only good for body-blocking the slayer.

The Baron as I stated earlier is not a good summon. Especially if you choose it over insta-health. Dreadknights pose a much larger threat to slayers and would be a far better summon. Carcass is a great summon but you can't move through its shield. Hell Knight is good for distractions.

Overall I think it can be pretty balanced but both sides have some things that make them very strong in certain situations and map design plays a lot into these elements. But some things are actually really weak and not worth taking.

most of this is very true you even reminded me of a few things. The only things I would say for this is that the maykr drones can do a lot of melee damage and a loot block will stop it, but then again having to time it so it blocks it before it gets shot is difficult and it also just wastes a loot block. Also don't forget the flame belch which can be extremely powerful if you flame belch an enemy kill him, then use the flamehook SSG on a different enemy, which can get you like 30-40 armor in just a second or two.

For the maps, at least for me, I keep getting the same 2 maps of penance and the map with the eletric things in the middle this might be a bug or i'm just unlucky as those two maps can be a pain.

The lag is a major issue right now because I have been hit an uncountable amount of times by rockets or skulls or whatever when it wasn't even near me, and its the same when attacking the demons too as some hits just don't count whatsoever and can even leave to a defeat.

But that is all whats on my mind now, i might edit it if i think of something else important to add