Why the game sucks + serious suggestion to fix it ASAP

[doctor]

EDIT : I eventually bought the game. After the free week end, I've been able to join groups of people playing much better, especially when playing with people who speak their native language (french in my case). There are still a good amount of people who don't know what to do, especially when I join an english group. The game is very good and addictive (I played 10 hours straight). It's a shame, because the experience become so much better when players just start to understand the basics. A lot of people playing during the free week end probably would have bought the game if what I propose in this thread was implemented.

Just like everyone else my thinking is: excellent idea, bad execution.
This game feels like there is so much potential, but in reality it just doesnt work at all.

Here's what's happening in every single game that I make:

1) Half of the survivors just run in circles
2) The other half start cutting wood and rocks to build some tools like they're in minecraft, then run in circles
3) Occasionnaly, one or two player will try to do something, but the absurdly hard difficulty will prevent them to be anywear near effective enough.

After 2 or 3 games the player usually start thinking " wtf am I supposed to do ? " and uninstall.

I'll repeat this one more time: 80 % of the games 80 % of the players have NO SINGLE CLUE about what they're supposed to do. It's not because they're stupid, it's because you've failed to explain them how to play.

Wether you provide the new player a quick, intuitive and fun way to understand what they're supposed to do and how they're supposed to play and the game might grow, or you just content yourself with a super low playerbase who knows the game perfectly already. The second option will lead the game to die, by the way.

Here's a few concept every major game developer understand and that you must understand too:

1) If a mentally challenged kid start playing the game for the first time without making the tutorial, he must be able to understand easily:
- what he's supposed to do right now and how
- what he's supposed to accomplish long term and how
- have a clear sense of progression

2) The cooperation must be forced, or heavily encouraged through the interface
No, making the game impossible to win without a full, cooperated team of 6 experience people is not what I call "encouraging cooperation". I'd call it "encouraging uninstallation" though.

Encouraging cooperation means that if a social anxious player with no microphone and no sound plays the game, he must be able to cooperate easily with the other player in a fun a rewarding way.

Here's how you do it:
- In the tutorial, make it so that you're playing with a TEAM.
- When a player start going alone, a pop up should appear to say "a bunker can't be opened alone, and your inventory is small. Playing with other people will heavily increase your chances of winning !"
- I'll go back to this later, but each time you see a element that require cooperation, a pop up should appear and reinforce the idea that you must move as a TEAM. The pop up could say :
" You need 3 people to open this door. Moving with a group of people is the most efficient way to play ". Even if people already know that you need 3 people, they need to hear it again and again and again.

And the most important:

- Crafting pieces for the objective should be completely disabled or at least discouraged in a clear way

This is the thing that confuses most people and is anti-cooperation. It's just 10x faster to move as a group and open some bunkers than it is to collect wood and try to build the items. Also, when after 2 or 3 games, a new player has just spend 30 min collecting wood, losing, collecting wood, losing, collecting wood, losing, what do you think he's gonna do ? UNINSTALL , of course. Just because of this feature, people don't play with each other and just minecraft untill the game ends.

Wether you completely disable it, or, each time a player start crafting a piece of motherboard or mechanical scrap, a pop up should appear and say " It's much faster to find those elements in a bunker than to craft them. Group with other people and go find them !".

People will NOT COOPERATE unless you FORCE THEM TO with BIG pop up and reward /punishment mechanism. I've spent HOURS trying to convince people to follow me to open a bunker and wether they dont react, or they follow me for 10 second and start running in a random direction for no reason, or they just say that i'm a traitor and go back chopping wood in front of the cabin untill the timer reach 0.

And guess what, when a group of people are FINALLY following you and you think you've FINALLY found competent people, well its just 2 traitors following you untill you're far enough and they kill you. See ? They know they're traitors because they can see each other's big red arrow. They understand their role. They cooperate because that BIG RED ARROW is telling them to cooperate with each other and because their immediate goal is simple, straightforward and achievable.

Big, flashy buttons and pop up must encourage survivors to cooperate with each others in the same way.

Everything should be explained, every single thing, every single time

If a player put his mouse on water, a pop up should appread and say "This is water. It's wet".
Every single element should be explained each time a player passes next to it, or put his mouse on it. This feature could be disabled in the settings, just like in every other game.
- Player is low health, a pop up appear and explain everything
- Player is hungry / cold, a pop up appear and explain everything
- Player moves next to a bunker, a rock, a cable, a butterfly, a piece of mud, a pop up appear and explain everything

Here are some pictures so you understand what MUST BE DONE in order to keep the new players: https://imgur.com/a/a3s4Ra6

By the way, special mention to those big bunkers who require 3 people to activate 3 consoles far from each other by following the cable in the snow, at the same time. I've never ever seen one of those being opened. This is way too hard, especially considering that people have no clue about what's going on in the first place and that nothing is explained.

The fact that the game is already ONE YEAR OLD and that those obvious features havn't been implemented is baffeling. The devs might have great ideas when it comes to making a good game, but they're awful at understanding human psychology and why asking a group of random, 8 new players to cooperated and to understand a game where nothing is explained is just an indirect way to tell them to uninstall.

Oh, and one last thing:
If there is any problem with voice / audio, a pop up MUST APPEAR to say " it looks like you have troubles with your voice chat. The game is best played when talking with other people ! ".
By the way, if I unplug my microphone, not only can I not talk, I also can't hear other people. And I don't even have a way to know that they're talking. A player could play this game 1 or 2 hours without suspecting that other people are talking, and then uninstall because no one says nothing and no one undetstand a thing.

Thanks for reading.

BONUS
- I should be able to group with my friend and then clic on " quick match " and be immediately matched. I should not have to try to find a lobby and then tell my friend to go on this lobby etc. This is how it worked 15 years ago. Now every game has a function where you group before the game, then the game automatically put you and your friend in the same game.
- I should be able to press TAB and see every player in the game and mute whoever I want. To often some troll put loud music and there is no way to mute him.

[Saucette]

That's why voice chat is here, you're supposed to help newcomers understand what they have to do, and it takes like what 5 minutes ?

Also, traitors can run in circles. I had one game where my friend traitor attacked people during the first minutes with his bare fists, then died, so i had to win alone vs 7.

I like games where not everything is explained and you have to discover things during your learning curve. It's fine.

I think this game is not only about winning but discovering game's universe as well (crafting, ways to kill people, ways to sabotage, ways to heal...etc)

And if you don't have a mic, you can always use text chat. But yes it's needed i think.

[doctor]

Originally posted by Saucette:

That's why voice chat is here, you're supposed to help newcomers understand what they have to do, and it takes like what 5 minutes ?

They won't listen if a BIG POP UP with bright colors don't tell them that what you're saying make sense. This is how people are. A guy might follow you for like 10 sec and then decide to run in the opposite direction for no reason at all.

Just try to convince 2 new guys to follow you at this big bunker, then explain them that while you're activating this console, they need to follow the cable in the snow to find the other consoles, then activate them, then comeback.

It's completely impossible.

[Pappus]

You are partly right and partly wrong. Deceit games are ultimately just too hard for the average player and are thus unplayable.

Things can be better explained, but people aren't helped by a pop-up if they don't notice themselves that they are not contributing anything to victory.

I saw beginners struggle with keeping themselves fed or wasting so much time because they only go for berries. If they cannot understand by themselves how heat and food works after 2 matches, then they are just hopeless.

The mapsize doesn't help either it is just too big for no good reason either.

[Ussul w+m1]

Pretty good. After 11 hr of gameplay I finally got to the airpod with one man that knew what is going on. We were attacked by 3 new wolfs every 1/2 min or so. Never seen so many wolfs in wolfestain hardcore mode. Like WTF it this. I am so sorry I bought this sh!t.

[HACKED]

You just need a lot of friends to make it fun. If you solo against a bunch of strangers you will get the scenario as you mentioned. Half of the games, people just start attacking each other until the game is over.

[BajMic]

Dear Authors

Despite some dissapointment, I will probably buy your game. I find the traitor play very rewarding, if against competent players.

When players become experienced, balance shifts rapidly, I know that. I did some research in regard to the game.

If I may make a suggestion - introduce the optional "noob mode" where game lasts 60 to 90 minutes and there is a reminder "game loss in X:XX" as opposed to the ambivalent "Mega-blizzard". Perhaps even some portable map of terrain features for every player? A mode where traitors need to actually kill the survivors to win as they would figure things out and escape eventually. When this mode is online, do the free weekend thing again, as a means to gain positive reception and increase the sales.

Sincerely,
BajMic

[Dagunov]

Popups are a great idea. I spent nearly ten minutes explaining to my friends a bunch of basic things about traitors, drops, craftings and so on. Popups would be great.

[Furan]

I totally agree with your opinion. It took me a while to learn and understand how to complete the objectives of the game. It's true that it can be enjoyful to discover step by step how a game is meant to be played. But this game is related to a board game, and, if it's possible to learn how to play a board game during the game when we already know the basics. It's impossible in the case the game has a time limit to reach the objectives adapted for people who already knows how to play it.

[Lodreus]

Originally posted by icarus:

You just need a lot of friends to make it fun. If you solo against a bunch of strangers you will get the scenario as you mentioned. Half of the games, people just start attacking each other until the game is over.

1+

The game works when you are playing with like-minded people who understand the concept of the game. I've been there where people just do whatever and shoot you for no reason (Deceit). Either find friends or hope you find some people who really want to play seriously.

I'm still debating whether or not I want to buy this game. I've played CSGO version and I disliked it very much. Deceit was ok but again people do whatever and team up against you when they have no solid facts about you. Whereas this game you have to pay to play, so it might bring in players who actually give a damn and want to play properly seeing as they purchased it. Plus it's £5....

[Gisman]

Great suggestions. I've only played for 3 and a bit hours, but it's been all with a group of 8 friends. I'd be absolutely baffled if I was playing in pubs and I'm sure I wouldn't have the patience to try and figure it out through trial and error if I was on my lonesome.

[Hello]

You just need a leader in every game, or just more experience. The goal is to get a good time playing it, not just escaping the map

[doctor]

Originally posted by French Catholic:

You just need a leader in every game, or just more experience. The goal is to get a good time playing it, not just escaping the map

I though about this leader thing and didnt include it into my post, but I think its actually a good idea.

[Zet]

Totally agree, we need ingame pop up

[LotusBlade]

Well as you have already mentioned, it was 1 year since release. Game was in so-called early access and suddenly a payed DLC appeared — that already showed what developers want from it... Milking us! You can't just release DLC which costs as a basic game, while it is in early access. Right now i don't see early access mark, yet we all clearly can see it is flooded with EA problems and will take years to be fixed.

Just play Town of Salem instead, less fancy, but free and fully developed.

[Ivory]

I'm hoping to see some dev responses on posts like these