30GB HDD space needed? For what?!

[budyll]

Hi everyone,

So I was happy when I heard that Shenmue 2 is coming to PC given that my Shenmue 2 XBOX disc didn't work for a long time and so I never gotten to finish it.

Now I saw the system requirements and I simply died. What in this compilation needs 30GB of hard drive space? It's over a half of what was needed for Wolfenstein 2 and many other new titles.

I'd understand it if they would update the textures of the games etc. but that's not the case. They didn't even care to retexture the character models clothing etc.

How did they made it need 30GB of space from 2 very old games, with no visible graphics improvements, when they originally combined were slightly over 2GB since they were on the CD discs?
I guess I'll pass and simply buy the XBOX disc version.

[Roland]

look at any AAA game in your library's system requirements, then look at the space it's taking up installed. I gaurantee they WAY over estimate the disc usage.
Sometimes they do this in anticipation of patches, sometimes because they use a terrible patch system that copies large portions of the game, sometimes it's anticipation of DLC., etc.
The point is, don't worry about it.

Moving on from that, where the hell do you get your original game sizes from!?
Shenmue 1 was 3 discs, and Dreamcasts GD-Roms held 1.2GB, not 700MB like a normal CD. That puts Shenmue 1 at roughly 3GBs (assuming SOME free space on each disc)
Shenmue 2 was DEFINITELY over 4 GB, because every pirated Dreamcast copy had audio ripped just to fit on a burned CD, and it was 4 discs.

All in all, it'll probably be under 10 GB.

[Shorty]

If you think that's something Shenmue 3 is going to be 100gb, I mean wtf is going to happen next gen?

[budyll]

Originally posted by Roland:

look at any AAA game in your library's system requirements, then look at the space it's taking up installed. I gaurantee they WAY over estimate the disc usage.
Sometimes they do this in anticipation of patches, sometimes because they use a terrible patch system that copies large portions of the game, sometimes it's anticipation of DLC., etc.
The point is, don't worry about it.

Moving on from that, where the hell do you get your original game sizes from!?
Shenmue 1 was 3 discs, and Dreamcasts GD-Roms held 1.2GB, not 700MB like a normal CD. That puts Shenmue 1 at roughly 3GBs (assuming SOME free space on each disc)
Shenmue 2 was DEFINITELY over 4 GB, because every pirated Dreamcast copy had audio ripped just to fit on a burned CD, and it was 4 discs.

All in all, it'll probably be under 10 GB.

Still not 30GB. I don't mean to make anyone angry or anything like that.
I'm honestly curious as to why would it, even by estimate, take so much space when they didn't even bother to create some HD textures for it. It is literally a 1:1 port of the original games and let's be honest here, they look terribly dated nowadays.

[Stoibs]

Asking sincerely, why is this much of an issue anyway?
Certainly strange to me that it's cause enough to pass entirely on, especially these days with HDD and SSD prices dropping the way that they are.

Disk space required is about the last system spec that really matters to me, and this is coming from someone who lives in a country that is generally the laughing stock when it comes to our download speeds..
One overnight/At work download later and it'll be good to go.

[budyll]

Originally posted by Stoibs:

Asking sincerely, why is this much of an issue anyway?
Certainly strange to me that it's cause enough to pass entirely on, especially these days with HDD and SSD prices dropping the way that they are.

Disk space required is about the last system spec that really matters to me, and this is coming from someone who lives in a country that is generally the laughing stock when it comes to our download speeds..
One overnight/At work download later and it'll be good to go.

Dude, I don't have problems with slow internet etc. so It's not the case of not being able to download it. I'm simply wondering why 2 of such old games need so much HDD space, when Sega didn't update the graphics in any way at all.

There was a similar case with a different game. It's not a Sega game, but I just want to use it as an example.

Few months back Square Enix released a botched port of Chrono Trigger on Steam and it needed 2GB of space, when the game was barely taking few hundred MB on PS1 amd only a few MB when it was originally released on SNES.

That's what I'm talking about. How could it possibly get from even those 10GB that you mentioned, to 30GB when SEGA did absolutely nothing to update these games?

[JefferyNothing]

How do you know what they have or haven’t done? Both games won’t be 30gb, they always over estimate.

[budyll]

Originally posted by Hazuki:

How do you know what they have or haven’t done? Both games won’t be 30gb, they always over estimate.

Because they released screenshots and gameplay trailer from this particular version for PCS & current consoles?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE_xPfHP0dY
https://www.dualshockers.com/sega-announces-mega-drive-mini-shenmue-sakura-taisen/
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/29625-shenmue-i-and-ii-are-coming-but-they-arent-remasters-after-all/

Doesn't look updated to me at all. Sega just went the cheap wayt like with the HD releases of Yakuza & Yakuza 2 for PS3, which simply abysmally streched out the textures.

[Kaldaien]

Originally posted by Hazuki:

How do you know what they have or haven’t done? Both games won’t be 30gb, they always over estimate.

They don't overestimate, you actually do need that much free space for the Steam client to install the game. That's because it makes 2 copies of the game and once the game is installed completely it erases the first. This design helps with fragmentation, but that's not as big an issue now as it was in ~2000 when Steam was originally designed.

[Styke]

Sega uses the term 'remaster' to mean 'It works on modern systems and we've fixed the back-end engine to run in 64x' it DOES NOT mean graphics, nowhere on any page does it mention graphics.

Unfortunately this also means Sega does a shockingly complete pass of every texture in the game to 4k, which means things that don't need it (soup cans, fan blades, every blade of grass) now sports a massive 4k x 4k texture map, instead of the original 32x32 (hence the blur)

thus you've turned two 980mb GD-ROM games from 2000 into 30 gigs that looks pretty much the same

[Darkfalz]

Originally posted by Styke:

Unfortunately this also means Sega does a shockingly complete pass of every texture in the game to 4k, which means things that don't need it (soup cans, fan blades, every blade of grass) now sports a massive 4k x 4k texture map, instead of the original 32x32 (hence the blur)

4K is the rendering resolution. There is no reason to resize all the textures. They probably are decompressing them from the native PVR compressed format though unless they've implemented some kind of on the fly decompression or even emulation of the PVR hardware.

I doubt it will require 30 GB space. It did come on 6 1 GB discs (ignoring the passport discs) but a lot of each disc was duplicated. So there's 4 GB of unique data there at most.

That being said, I'm sure large parts of the game are essentually emulated rather than running native x64/x86 code. I am actually hoping this is the case for music (which was a sample based MIDI format) - if they instead had to render these to mp3s and play those back instead that would suck. This would also be worst case scenario if they have decompressed all the native AHX speech files and recompressed them with something else (or just left them uncompressed).

It's depressing that all the assets can't be from the raw data, ie. uncompressed speech and original textures. But that would really only have been possible if they did all those things at the last step in the original development, which was almost certainly not the case due to Dreamcast development limitations. Those assets probably exist somewhere in the Sega vault but they'd need to be be piece by piece reimplemented into the new engine.

[Chewiechanga]

Originally posted by Kaldaien:

Originally posted by Hazuki:

How do you know what they have or haven’t done? Both games won’t be 30gb, they always over estimate.

They don't overestimate, you actually do need that much free space for the Steam client to install the game. That's because it makes 2 copies of the game and once the game is installed completely it erases the first. This design helps with fragmentation, but that's not as big an issue now as it was in ~2000 when Steam was originally designed.

^ This is pretty much it, it is only required for installation, you will usually see games claim something like 15gigs and download only 7, when it is done with installation only the 7 gig is used.

[Kidm0bius]

sega never claimed this would be a remaster... just a re-release with updated hud. its a 1:1 port to work with modern rigs. i wont buy, due to 30 bucks for a 1:1 isnt worth it. if it was actually remasterd with updated textures and polish then yea. but this is just a Re-Release. I still have my dream cast so if i want to play it, itd be on there. it also seems like the up res is just that they expanded the texture maps but thats about it and maybe cleaned up the edging a lil bit. still not worth it.

[Kaldaien]

$15 on average for two games. From what I understand of the game engine, we're lucky to see a port to _any_ platform and this has long been assumed to be one of those games that a port would not be worth the expense.

SEGA has repeatedly gone on record to this effect over the years, and I'm sure they're completely taken aback by the level of actual interest but it's too late to act now and maybe they'll use some of the profit here to polish and actually finish Shenmue 3?

[fender178]

Originally posted by budyll:

Hi everyone,

So I was happy when I heard that Shenmue 2 is coming to PC given that my Shenmue 2 XBOX disc didn't work for a long time and so I never gotten to finish it.

Now I saw the system requirements and I simply died. What in this compilation needs 30GB of hard drive space? It's over a half of what was needed for Wolfenstein 2 and many other new titles.

I'd understand it if they would update the textures of the games etc. but that's not the case. They didn't even care to retexture the character models clothing etc.

How did they made it need 30GB of space from 2 very old games, with no visible graphics improvements, when they originally combined were slightly over 2GB since they were on the CD discs?
I guess I'll pass and simply buy the XBOX disc version.

There is alot of features going on with this re-release of these games. Here is a video that explains them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efAwKp02yDs.

[V I D A L]

Are you guys all new to PC gaming? The HD requirement DOES NOT represent the size of the game or even the size of the download. It can be a few different things. One, instalation: Meaning that after downloaded, the files get decompressed.. during that time the game will be taking a lot more space on your HD because it will have the compressed downloaded files and the decompressed installed files... after the instalation is completed, the compressed files are deleted.
Two, many games create temporary files on your Hard Drive while you play so a game usually need extra free HD space just to run. Once you quit your gaming session those temporary files are deleted automatically.
Either way.. the download won't be 30GB and this game will not be occupying 30GB on your hard drive after you downloaded.