The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel II

The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel II

Dragon Apr 12, 2019 @ 4:38pm
*SPOILERS* I don't believe Duvalie really...
...beat Loewe. That would be extremely ludicrous if she did. And if she did, it would make Loewe jump the shark even more and completely ruin what was left of the integrity of his character.

If Duvalie beat Loewe, then Loewe is a loser. It wouldn't matter if it was only 1 out of 100 times.

No real Blademaster would ever lose to her, not even 1 in 1,000,000,000 times.

Is Duvalie supposed to be lying in that scene? Or did they really trash Loewe's character even more by having her supposed to be making a truthful statement about beating Loewe?
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
... what?

Why would it dinimish Loewe's character? Cassius, and most likely, Viscout Arseid would probably be likely of beating him too, does that diminish his character too? Why does it matter? Loewe, might be the best sword fighter amongst the enforcers, that doesn't necessary mean he is the strongest or most powerful either.

It's also important to note that Duvalie isn't an enforcer, but again, why does it make a difference? She also has the advantage of having been trained by the "Steel Maiden."
Cold_Reverie Apr 13, 2019 @ 1:33am 
I think you're selling Duvalie a bit short!

We don't really know the context for that fights, so I don't really think it even matters. For all we know Loewe could have just let her win just so she'd stop challenging him to duels.
ex_beat Apr 13, 2019 @ 5:38am 
Duvalie is stronger fighter than Joshua
/thread
Last edited by ex_beat; Apr 13, 2019 @ 5:38am
Dragon Apr 13, 2019 @ 7:25am 

Originally posted by ex_beat:
Duvalie is stronger fighter than Joshua
/thread

No, that's not a /thread, as that would be ludicrous too, given that Duvalie was cakewalk for a few students to beat.

Originally posted by the.jester:

Why would it dinimish Loewe's character?

Because Sky FC and SC spend a great deal of time & effort building up Loewe as the Bladelord who is immaculate with the sword.

Then they completely flush that concept down the toilet at the end of SC by making Loewe into a loser who way lesser fighters can magically & suddenly beat out the blue (even though they couldn't before).

And now with this Duvalie nonsense, they further dump on Loewe's already-greatly-diminished reputation.

So in essence, Loewe went from being the nigh-unbeatable Bladelord, to a random chump who almost anyone can beat. Whilst for his first several appearances, Loewe strikes fear into the heart of his enemies, by the time of CS2, Loewe has become a laughable joke.

A good analogy would be like with what the old Star Trek TV shows and movies did with the Borg. At their first appearance, the Borg were terrifying. But as the writers kept writing about them more & more, they soon became a non-menacing clown show & yawnfest. Such is the case also with Loewe. How tragic. He could have been a great character if they hadn't of ruined him in the ways I've described.
Last edited by Dragon; Apr 13, 2019 @ 7:27am
After 100 duels, maybe he wasn't at the top of his game that one time. It happens to the best of us. Everyone loses sometimes. Batman, Superman and Goku have all lost fights in their time too. To err is human.
Originally posted by Dragon:
... He could have been a great character if they hadn't of ruined him in the ways I've described.

Subjective and entirely your opinion. For most other people he is still same well designed character he was before.
Ellipsis Apr 13, 2019 @ 12:44pm 
Duvalie isn't a pushover even though Loewe is certainly stronger. Her win could have been a fluke, or Loewe letting her win; we don't know the context of it.

To say she was "a cakewalk for a few students to beat" is also completely wrong. Class VII definitely struggled to do so, and that was a good number of them against Duvalie alone. Being a member of the Stahlritter, she's still an extremely capable fighter. It's not out of the realm of possibility for her to best Loewe in one duel.

I really don't see how that makes Loewe's character any worse, either. He was able to fight Estelle's party to a standstill, and was able to continue fighting without showing signs of fatigue even when his opponents were struggling to stand. If you recall, the only reason he lost to Joshua is because his concentration was broken by Joshua's words about Karin and Joshua took heavy advantage of that to knock his sword out of his hands. If he hadn't done that, it's almost a certainty Joshua would have lost. Duvalie is stronger than Joshua, too - while it's certainly not expected, it's not a bad loss for him either. You're not giving her enough credit.

Joshua and Duvalie are both powerful fighters. It's pretty unreasonable that you think he somehow became a "random chump who almost anybody can beat" because he lost once to an Enforcer and an Enforcer-level swordswoman.
Last edited by Ellipsis; Apr 13, 2019 @ 12:44pm
Evil Gambio Apr 15, 2019 @ 7:38am 
Originally posted by Dragon:
...beat Loewe. That would be extremely ludicrous if she did. And if she did, it would make Loewe jump the shark even more and completely ruin what was left of the integrity of his character.

If Duvalie beat Loewe, then Loewe is a loser. It wouldn't matter if it was only 1 out of 100 times.

No real Blademaster would ever lose to her, not even 1 in 1,000,000,000 times.

Is Duvalie supposed to be lying in that scene? Or did they really trash Loewe's character even more by having her supposed to be making a truthful statement about beating Loewe?
I always just interpreted it as that he felt pity and let her win.
OnlyOffensive Apr 16, 2019 @ 6:58am 
yea, you cant really base judgement on difficulty of CS. Loewe is definetely one of the hardest bosses in all turn based games ive played, and in CS everything is a joke. But they couldnt really base story on actual gameplay difficulty.
Oguzhan Apr 16, 2019 @ 7:07am 
Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:
yea, you cant really base judgement on difficulty of CS. Loewe is definetely one of the hardest bosses in all turn based games ive played, and in CS everything is a joke. But they couldnt really base story on actual gameplay difficulty.

Yes but I wish the final boss didn't die in 1 hit on nightmare mode. At least make nightmare difficult.
OnlyOffensive Apr 16, 2019 @ 7:20am 
yea..... with how 3/4 releases on PC are going im not that keen on keep playing CS at all. I might play crossbell with geofront release i guess, but i dont like how dumped CS gameplay is compared to sky. The story and overall feeling is still great, but with how long it takes between games it becomes less relevant.
Oguzhan Apr 16, 2019 @ 7:25am 
Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:
yea..... with how 3/4 releases on PC are going im not that keen on keep playing CS at all. I might play crossbell with geofront release i guess, but i dont like how dumped CS gameplay is compared to sky. The story and overall feeling is still great, but with how long it takes between games it becomes less relevant.

Honestly story, well more so the way its told is my biggest problem. The focus is too much on Rean. Some people defend this but if a game can't give enough time for its other characters and have them just to make the main one look cooler, that is an objective failure. The difficulty I can still stomach but the focus on Rean, especially in CS2, is awful. Lemme put it this way, Elise, Rean's sister, 98% of her dialogue is about Rean. She is either teased about him or is worried about him. And I do mean 98% of her dialogue, the 2% is me giving her the benefit of the doubt. Easily the worst written character in the series. She is a literal husk without Rean. Not to mention Rean is a very bland, generic character who doesn't grow much, unlike Estelle and Loyd, so focusing on HIM of all people is a terrible idea.
Last edited by Oguzhan; Apr 16, 2019 @ 7:26am
OnlyOffensive Apr 16, 2019 @ 7:55am 
i dunno, i have no problems with how they made story or focus on rean. I mean class VII dont feel like just sidekicks and thats good enough for me. They are certainly less developed, or rather their past compared to sky characters, but i liked it.
Gin-chan Apr 16, 2019 @ 8:58am 
Originally posted by Oguzhan:
Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:
yea..... with how 3/4 releases on PC are going im not that keen on keep playing CS at all. I might play crossbell with geofront release i guess, but i dont like how dumped CS gameplay is compared to sky. The story and overall feeling is still great, but with how long it takes between games it becomes less relevant.

Honestly story, well more so the way its told is my biggest problem. The focus is too much on Rean. Some people defend this but if a game can't give enough time for its other characters and have them just to make the main one look cooler, that is an objective failure. The difficulty I can still stomach but the focus on Rean, especially in CS2, is awful. Lemme put it this way, Elise, Rean's sister, 98% of her dialogue is about Rean. She is either teased about him or is worried about him. And I do mean 98% of her dialogue, the 2% is me giving her the benefit of the doubt. Easily the worst written character in the series. She is a literal husk without Rean. Not to mention Rean is a very bland, generic character who doesn't grow much, unlike Estelle and Loyd, so focusing on HIM of all people is a terrible idea.

Its really a case of too many characters imo. I mean the character count in the 1st game was already damn big for a jrpg then it just gets bigger with each subsequent entry....They really need to start smaller with the next story arc imo..
Last edited by Gin-chan; Apr 16, 2019 @ 8:58am
Tiasmoon Apr 16, 2019 @ 11:11am 
Indeed. They can always start to use lots of characters once they have many with existing background and developed character of their own.

That said, this many character would of still been okay if the games hadnt been too Rean centered. Imo it was a missed opportunity to have all the class trips being told from Rean's pov only.
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Date Posted: Apr 12, 2019 @ 4:38pm
Posts: 17