I'm so glad this game doesn't have level scaling. It's ruining all RPGs

[Paro]

I don't understand why people like level scaling. The idea being that the stronger you get, the stronger every enemy you encounter becomes, thus making leveling up and gearing up useless in the process.

I'm 33. For most of my life, RPG gamers loved to chase after "progression" and "powering up." It's WHY people loved RPGs (aside from the story). It was knowing you were turning into an unstoppable beast through fighting battles.

Nowadays, the vast majority of new RPG games are made for idiots who are "tricked" by the game into thinking they're becoming more powerful when, all along, they're exactly where they started, despite their "numbers" going up.

I don't understand why this is the "preferred" method. Level scaling is the single-worst thing to ever happen to RPGs.

[Roch Silverfang]

Well, apparently Tales of series is not for you.
You're not here to crush everything or run away from each encounter. You're here to use the Battle System at his maximum, and the best way to use it, is to have a level scaling.
Sadly Tales of series doesn't have one, but there is many other ways to make longer fights.

If you're not interested in epic shonen real-time battles and prefer crushing everything quickly then go play to some kind of low turn-by-turn JRPG, thanks.

[Paro]

Originally posted by Roch Silverfang:

Well, apparently Tales of series is not for you.
You're not here to crush everything or run away from each encounter. You're here to use the Battle System at his maximum, and the best way to use it, is to have a level scaling.
Sadly Tales of series doesn't have one, but there is many other ways to make longer fights.

If you're not interested in epic shonen real-time battles and prefer crushing everything quickly then go play to some kind of low turn-by-turn JRPG, thanks.

How is that a sad thing? If you truly loved RPGs, you wouldn't want it to have level scaling. Why have levels at all then? Level scaling defeats the purpose of stats, levels, and armor.

And you're wrong. If you watch Youtube there are people who have built their characters to basically be Gods.

[Minneyar]

Level scaling is largely a thing because of open world games. If the developers make a world where you are intended to be able to go anywhere and do anything at any time, that's at odds with a game design where some enemies are very weak and others are very strong. Either your open world isn't actually very open because players are intended to progress through areas in a specific order, or you design your game so that enemies scale with the player and are always an appropriate difficulty.

That's also why level scaling is much less common in JRPGs; the open world fad hasn't caught on quite as much in Japan, and games are still usually designed as linear experiences.

Originally posted by Roch Silverfang:

Well, apparently Tales of series is not for you. ... Sadly Tales of series doesn't have one

Did you seriously just tell somebody that the Tales series isn't for them because it doesn't have a thing they don't like? Really?

[No' Name]

Sounds like he'd hate "The Last Remnant".

[ƒaylen §øl]

It really depends on the game for me.

In open world games or sandbox games like Elder Scrolls the capped level scaling they do fits. Enemy types have a capped level scaling. For example bandits are Player Level but cap at level 25. Dragons are Player Level +10 but cap at like 45 or something like that.

You can eventually out-level everything because everything has a level cap.

It makes sense that as time progresses enemies also get stronger in games like that.

But in a game like this? Ehhh, yeah, level scaling feels odd.

[Paro]

Originally posted by Minneyar:

Level scaling is largely a thing because of open world games. If the developers make a world where you are intended to be able to go anywhere and do anything at any time, that's at odds with a game design where some enemies are very weak and others are very strong. Either your open world isn't actually very open because players are intended to progress through areas in a specific order, or you design your game so that enemies scale with the player and are always an appropriate difficulty.

That's also why level scaling is much less common in JRPGs; the open world fad hasn't caught on quite as much in Japan, and games are still usually designed as linear experiences.

Originally posted by Roch Silverfang:

Well, apparently Tales of series is not for you. ... Sadly Tales of series doesn't have one

Did you seriously just tell somebody that the Tales series isn't for them because it doesn't have a thing they don't like? Really?

I lol'd at that too. He's the one who isn't happy or at least finds the game lacking, which is why I'm the one who shouldn't love JRPGs.

You're right though. I never really thought of it in those terms. Ever since Oblivion (or really Skyrim) a whole lot of RPGs have shifted their focus to having these massive open worlds that are like theme parks where you go from one attraction to the next, and everything is superficial, and even though you SEEM to be getting more powerful, you're actually right about where you started.

There are some open world games that don't do that, though, they are few and far between. Xenoblade Chronicles X, I think, has no scaling. And that game by Pirannaha Bytes (I forgot the name).

[Paro]

Originally posted by ƒaylen §øl:

It really depends on the game for me.

In open world games or sandbox games like Elder Scrolls the capped level scaling they do fits. Enemy types have a capped level scaling. For example bandits are Player Level but cap at level 25. Dragons are Player Level +10 but cap at like 45 or something like that.

You can eventually out-level everything because everything has a level cap.

It makes sense that as time progresses enemies also get stronger in games like that.

But in a game like this? Ehhh, yeah, level scaling feels odd.

The Elder Scrolls games are the reason I hate level scaling with such a passion. I remember when Oblivion came out. It was one of my first experiences with level scaling. About 20 hours in, I realized I could get the best equipment in the game simply by campinp/sleeping in a bandit lair to make the enemies respawn, and each time, they had one tier higher armor than what I was wearing. It ruined the immersion of the game for me and made the entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ world feel pointless. I lost every reason to ever explore anywhere. Why bother? Nothing mattered. Then I realized you could literally beat the entire game at lvl 1 because the final boss would be scaled to you.

[Aphelium]

I'm not against things having a fixed level, but i do preffer level scaling.
There's always a point in the first type of games that you can just oneshot everything, and that, for me, makes the game boring. I want to always have, at least, a certain amount of challenge. That's why i modded the witcher 3 to oblivion.

[Paro]

Originally posted by Aphelium:

I'm not against things having a fixed level, but i do preffer level scaling.
There's always a point in the first type of games that you can just oneshot everything, and that, for me, makes the game boring. I want to always have, at least, a certain amount of challenge. That's why i modded the witcher 3 to oblivion.

But then what's the point of having levels at all? Why have level ups? Why have gear? Why have STATS?

These systems just simply do not work together. If you raising your strength by 5 means that the enemy in turn raises their armor by 5, then wouldn't it be better to not have strength and armor?

[Aphelium]

Originally posted by Paro:

Originally posted by Aphelium:

I'm not against things having a fixed level, but i do preffer level scaling.
There's always a point in the first type of games that you can just oneshot everything, and that, for me, makes the game boring. I want to always have, at least, a certain amount of challenge. That's why i modded the witcher 3 to oblivion.

But then what's the point of having levels at all? Why have level ups? Why have gear? Why have STATS?

These systems just simply do not work together. If you raising your strength by 5 means that the enemy in turn raises their armor by 5, then wouldn't it be better to not have strength and armor?

Levels for skill learning and ability upgrades for example, stats, because you need to keep ugrading them as you keep fighting evolving enemies, also differentt kind of enemies to make stats more relevant ( as in the witcher 3 mod that i'm using)

[Paro]

Originally posted by Aphelium:

Originally posted by Paro:

But then what's the point of having levels at all? Why have level ups? Why have gear? Why have STATS?

These systems just simply do not work together. If you raising your strength by 5 means that the enemy in turn raises their armor by 5, then wouldn't it be better to not have strength and armor?

Levels for skill learning and ability upgrades for example, stats, because you need to keep ugrading them as you keep fighting evolving enemies, also differentt kind of enemies to make stats more relevant ( as in the witcher 3 mod that i'm using)

yes but if the enemies' stats are only "evolving" BECAUSE *YOURS* are also evolving, it makes the entire system pointless.

[Xengre]

OP check out the Xenoblade Chronicle and Growlanser series. They both feature stats/systems you might thoroughly enjoy it sounds like.

[Aphelium]

Originally posted by Paro:

Originally posted by Aphelium:

Levels for skill learning and ability upgrades for example, stats, because you need to keep ugrading them as you keep fighting evolving enemies, also differentt kind of enemies to make stats more relevant ( as in the witcher 3 mod that i'm using)

yes but if the enemies' stats are only "evolving" BECAUSE *YOURS* are also evolving, it makes the entire system pointless.

Not really, the enemies states evolve because your LEVEL evolves, that means that even if you don't upgrade your own STATS, with armor, weapons, etc. You will will be in a huge disadvantage because they keep doing it.
That system makes you have to keep upgrading yourself so you can stay alive.

[Paro]

Originally posted by Xengre:

OP check out the Xenoblade Chronicle and Growlanser series. They both feature stats/systems you might thoroughly enjoy it sounds like.

I actually mentioned xenoblade earlier in this thread as an example of games I love

[Paro]

Originally posted by Aphelium:

Originally posted by Paro:

yes but if the enemies' stats are only "evolving" BECAUSE *YOURS* are also evolving, it makes the entire system pointless.

Not really, the enemies states evolve because your LEVEL evolves, that means that even if you don't upgrade your own STATS, with armor, weapons, etc. You will will be in a huge disadvantage because they keep doing it.
That system makes you have to keep upgrading yourself so you can stay alive.

So then you are actually making yourself weaker by leveling up, which defeats the entire purpose. You are supposed to grow and become more powerful: not weaker