Great story, Terrible combat

[Regrets1015]

I'll admit i suck at combat. I try but i feel like my inputs are delayed on the controller and theres just too much going on sometimes with 4+ enemies. It just turns into a mess of particle effects and i literally cant see whats going on.

It's hard to tell when an enemy is about to attack sometimes so i needlessly get hurt which feels cheap.

I don't like the "Tales of" combat so i set them to auto. I get more enjoyment out watching the characters pull off combos. I enjoy the story parts more.

I beat Tales of Arise (And loved it) and now I'm playing Tales of Berseria now and yeah, it's looking like im not going to like that combat either.

[Smurf]

Play Tales of Vesperia. If you still don't like the combat, then play Tales of Symphonia or Tales or Legendia. If their 2D plane limit is still bad for you, this might not be the right series for you. At least in terms of the main focus.

[Vanrayne]

tbf i treat tales games like a fighting game, i go for very easy difficulty and breeze through combat, i usually play them for characters and story. If you want intricate and complicated combat system look in different franchise.

[ุReshy]

The game's combat core problem is that it's a dodge-based game with controls that feel simultaneously stiff and floaty due to the queue-based artes and lack of animation canceling even at the very start of an attack. It's very easy to queue too many attacks and get punished because you can't cancel any attacks into a dodge. So you either have to exclusively use brief fast attacks that easily allow dodging, or just taking excessive amounts of damage due to the lack of animation canceling. You also cannot change direction on your attacks in "manual" mode once the animation's started which adds to the stiffness. I genuinely think that the game's "Story" difficulty is probably the intended difficulty due to how the damage scaling works otherwise where being hit 2-3 times or worse getting hit by any combo instantly kills a character from full.

The other issue this game's combat has is enemies simply have too much HP for how much damage they deal on normal and higher. If you compare the damage to a game like dark souls I'd say they're comparable, but in Dark Souls common enemies generally couldn't take 5 whole stamina bars of attacks. They also generally flinch when you hit them, barring bosses and large enemies. But in this game even small common enemies have states where they get super armor and ignore the first few hits against them.

There's also the lesser issue of the gameplay and story segregation since you end up fighting a lot of your companions at once in the story and they go from being able to take four people beating them with everything they got to falling over from a stiff breeze.


Berseria's system was way better. It's dodging and blocking wasn't as good, but the combat flowed much better. It was difficult, but it felt a lot more manageable.

[Regrets1015]

Originally posted by ุReshy:

The game's combat core problem is that it's a dodge-based game with controls that feel simultaneously stiff and floaty due to the queue-based artes and lack of animation canceling even at the very start of an attack. It's very easy to queue too many attacks and get punished because you can't cancel any attacks into a dodge. So you either have to exclusively use brief fast attacks that easily allow dodging, or just taking excessive amounts of damage due to the lack of animation canceling. You also cannot change direction on your attacks in "manual" mode once the animation's started which adds to the stiffness. I genuinely think that the game's "Story" difficulty is probably the intended difficulty due to how the damage scaling works otherwise where being hit 2-3 times or worse getting hit by any combo instantly kills a character from full.

The other issue this game's combat has is enemies simply have too much HP for how much damage they deal on normal and higher. If you compare the damage to a game like dark souls I'd say they're comparable, but in Dark Souls common enemies generally couldn't take 5 whole stamina bars of attacks. They also generally flinch when you hit them, barring bosses and large enemies. But in this game even small common enemies have states where they get super armor and ignore the first few hits against them.

There's also the lesser issue of the gameplay and story segregation since you end up fighting a lot of your companions at once in the story and they go from being able to take four people beating them with everything they got to falling over from a stiff breeze.


Berseria's system was way better. It's dodging and blocking wasn't as good, but the combat flowed much better. It was difficult, but it felt a lot more manageable.

I'm playing through Berseria now and I both hate and like the combat more. I like that the controls feel more responsive, but I hate the control layout. I dont even bother blocking anymore. I do a few hits and run away. I basically have my allies do all the damage.

I hate Berseria's combat so much im actively avoiding combat if I can.

The other person is probably right, this may not be the series for me. I was under the impression that the games were more story focused than combat focused. I thought people played the games for the story and characters, not the combat.

[MeierLink]

I think the complete opposite. (I've played all the Tales of... that are on Steam).

This game has the best combat system in my opinion, quite agile and dynamic and visually impressive.

On the contrary, I found the story quite simple and generic, typical of an anime for teenagers.

If you are looking for a good story I recommend you Tales of Symphonia (Unfortunately it is the oldest and the worst port, the remastered version I don't know if it will have improved that, I hope so).

[Regrets1015]

Originally posted by MeierLink:

I think the complete opposite. (I've played all the Tales of... that are on Steam).

This game has the best combat system in my opinion, quite agile and dynamic and visually impressive.

On the contrary, I found the story quite simple and generic, typical of an anime for teenagers.

If you are looking for a good story I recommend you Tales of Symphonia (Unfortunately it is the oldest and the worst port, the remastered version I don't know if it will have improved that, I hope so).

After playing Berseria, I will say Arise's combat does seem better. But im also playing Scarlet Nexus and that combat feels leagues better than Arise.

I plan to replay Tales of Arise, but I don't plan on replaying Berseria.

[no1schmo]

People tend to love both the story and the combat, hence why Tales is such a great series. It seems like real-time combat isn't really for you. Not to say Tales is perfect, especially if you like true action games like DMC and Bayonetta, but it's pretty solid. The key to Arise is just to dodge more. Like, all the time. Stop running around and dodge-around instead.

As for Reshy's comment, well, enemies in Dark Souls can also spin in mid air to clonk you on the head, or recover from an attack faster than you can recover from a dodge. Frankly ridiculous tracking and recovery. The higher HP is offset in Arise by boost attacks and finishers, and as for dying in 2-3 hits unless you're in story mode...I don't know what you're doing wrong, but something is wrong. You are right that all Tales games rely on alot of hit-and-run tactics and typically slower, longer attacks are penalized. That's how it's always been. Star Ocean as well. I'm not really sure of a way to fix that without breaking the games completely, though. If they just gave you I-frames or made enemies super-easy to stun, the games would be jokes.

[Regrets1015]

I don't mind real-time combat if it's like FF15 where you have a lot of space to run around in. When it's Tales size area, it becomes a challenge just to dodge anything. The battlefield can get too crowded.

Turn based can be just as intense as real-time. I love the older final fantasy games and Divinity: Original sin 2.

If tales expanded their battle size, give people more room to breath, it would help a lot.

[ุReshy]

Originally posted by no1schmo:

People tend to love both the story and the combat, hence why Tales is such a great series. It seems like real-time combat isn't really for you. Not to say Tales is perfect, especially if you like true action games like DMC and Bayonetta, but it's pretty solid. The key to Arise is just to dodge more. Like, all the time. Stop running around and dodge-around instead.

As for Reshy's comment, well, enemies in Dark Souls can also spin in mid air to clonk you on the head, or recover from an attack faster than you can recover from a dodge. Frankly ridiculous tracking and recovery. The higher HP is offset in Arise by boost attacks and finishers, and as for dying in 2-3 hits unless you're in story mode...I don't know what you're doing wrong, but something is wrong. You are right that all Tales games rely on alot of hit-and-run tactics and typically slower, longer attacks are penalized. That's how it's always been. Star Ocean as well. I'm not really sure of a way to fix that without breaking the games completely, though. If they just gave you I-frames or made enemies super-easy to stun, the games would be jokes.

Maybe it was just the first impressions from the initial areas of the game where you were just starting out, but on normal you are super fragile, much more so than the other tales of games I've played.

You do get iframes when dodging by the way, the main issue is this game's very dependent on dodging compared to the prior games where it was far less prominent, but characters still do long flashy animations that can't be canceled or re-angled and worse they can be queued consecutively leading to a lot of wasted time if you don't treat it like a turn-based experience.

[TheSuit]

Use long range Character as main character if you want more control over combat
They tend to stand in a corner so you can have much better view of the action

[no1schmo]

Originally posted by iNeedCoffee92:

I don't mind real-time combat if it's like FF15 where you have a lot of space to run around in. When it's Tales size area, it becomes a challenge just to dodge anything. The battlefield can get too crowded.

Turn based can be just as intense as real-time. I love the older final fantasy games and Divinity: Original sin 2.

If tales expanded their battle size, give people more room to breath, it would help a lot.

No, that would trivialize it. If you could just stand 50 feet away and shoot at the enemy with Shionne at all times, that would be a snoozefest. The thing is, you don't need "space". It's not a challenge at all because it's not like a "real" dodge where you have to actually move out of the way, it's a button that instantly negates all damage, so even if the enemy's attack animation technically touches you, it does no damage. No space is needed and you can fight alot of enemies by just standing right in their face and whacking them, dodging as needed.

Originally posted by ุReshy:

Originally posted by no1schmo:

People tend to love both the story and the combat, hence why Tales is such a great series. It seems like real-time combat isn't really for you. Not to say Tales is perfect, especially if you like true action games like DMC and Bayonetta, but it's pretty solid. The key to Arise is just to dodge more. Like, all the time. Stop running around and dodge-around instead.

As for Reshy's comment, well, enemies in Dark Souls can also spin in mid air to clonk you on the head, or recover from an attack faster than you can recover from a dodge. Frankly ridiculous tracking and recovery. The higher HP is offset in Arise by boost attacks and finishers, and as for dying in 2-3 hits unless you're in story mode...I don't know what you're doing wrong, but something is wrong. You are right that all Tales games rely on alot of hit-and-run tactics and typically slower, longer attacks are penalized. That's how it's always been. Star Ocean as well. I'm not really sure of a way to fix that without breaking the games completely, though. If they just gave you I-frames or made enemies super-easy to stun, the games would be jokes.

Maybe it was just the first impressions from the initial areas of the game where you were just starting out, but on normal you are super fragile, much more so than the other tales of games I've played.

You do get iframes when dodging by the way, the main issue is this game's very dependent on dodging compared to the prior games where it was far less prominent, but characters still do long flashy animations that can't be canceled or re-angled and worse they can be queued consecutively leading to a lot of wasted time if you don't treat it like a turn-based experience.

Yes, of course, I meant other I-frames, like if you were invincible when using any artes. But you're right, it's all based around dodging, and I completely understand if that's just not someone's cup of tea. But it's not the case on nearly any difficulty that you die if you take a single combo by anything but the strongest bosses strongest attacks. As for being animation-locked, yes, but that's true of every Tales game. That could be fixed but I'm not sure they want to make the games even more complex by introducing cancelling mechanics.

[ุReshy]

Originally posted by no1schmo:

Originally posted by iNeedCoffee92:

I don't mind real-time combat if it's like FF15 where you have a lot of space to run around in. When it's Tales size area, it becomes a challenge just to dodge anything. The battlefield can get too crowded.

Turn based can be just as intense as real-time. I love the older final fantasy games and Divinity: Original sin 2.

If tales expanded their battle size, give people more room to breath, it would help a lot.

No, that would trivialize it. If you could just stand 50 feet away and shoot at the enemy with Shionne at all times, that would be a snoozefest. The thing is, you don't need "space". It's not a challenge at all because it's not like a "real" dodge where you have to actually move out of the way, it's a button that instantly negates all damage, so even if the enemy's attack animation technically touches you, it does no damage. No space is needed and you can fight alot of enemies by just standing right in their face and whacking them, dodging as needed.

Originally posted by ุReshy:

Maybe it was just the first impressions from the initial areas of the game where you were just starting out, but on normal you are super fragile, much more so than the other tales of games I've played.

You do get iframes when dodging by the way, the main issue is this game's very dependent on dodging compared to the prior games where it was far less prominent, but characters still do long flashy animations that can't be canceled or re-angled and worse they can be queued consecutively leading to a lot of wasted time if you don't treat it like a turn-based experience.

Yes, of course, I meant other I-frames, like if you were invincible when using any artes. But you're right, it's all based around dodging, and I completely understand if that's just not someone's cup of tea. But it's not the case on nearly any difficulty that you die if you take a single combo by anything but the strongest bosses strongest attacks. As for being animation-locked, yes, but that's true of every Tales game. That could be fixed but I'm not sure they want to make the games even more complex by introducing cancelling mechanics.

Dodging would be okay were you able to cancel out of move artes, but you can't, and worse you can queue multiples unintentionally. There's also other minor issues like some bosses having poor tells for what move they're going to use, or very small windows between them starting an attack and the hitboxes coming out.

[Zelph]

Originally posted by ุReshy:

Originally posted by no1schmo:

No, that would trivialize it. If you could just stand 50 feet away and shoot at the enemy with Shionne at all times, that would be a snoozefest. The thing is, you don't need "space". It's not a challenge at all because it's not like a "real" dodge where you have to actually move out of the way, it's a button that instantly negates all damage, so even if the enemy's attack animation technically touches you, it does no damage. No space is needed and you can fight alot of enemies by just standing right in their face and whacking them, dodging as needed.





Yes, of course, I meant other I-frames, like if you were invincible when using any artes. But you're right, it's all based around dodging, and I completely understand if that's just not someone's cup of tea. But it's not the case on nearly any difficulty that you die if you take a single combo by anything but the strongest bosses strongest attacks. As for being animation-locked, yes, but that's true of every Tales game. That could be fixed but I'm not sure they want to make the games even more complex by introducing cancelling mechanics.

Dodging would be okay were you able to cancel out of move artes, but you can't, and worse you can queue multiples unintentionally. There's also other minor issues like some bosses having poor tells for what move they're going to use, or very small windows between them starting an attack and the hitboxes coming out.

Time to not spam arts that are high commitment! Dodging should be rarely an issue when you get that down.

[no1schmo]

Originally posted by ุReshy:

Originally posted by no1schmo:

No, that would trivialize it. If you could just stand 50 feet away and shoot at the enemy with Shionne at all times, that would be a snoozefest. The thing is, you don't need "space". It's not a challenge at all because it's not like a "real" dodge where you have to actually move out of the way, it's a button that instantly negates all damage, so even if the enemy's attack animation technically touches you, it does no damage. No space is needed and you can fight alot of enemies by just standing right in their face and whacking them, dodging as needed.





Yes, of course, I meant other I-frames, like if you were invincible when using any artes. But you're right, it's all based around dodging, and I completely understand if that's just not someone's cup of tea. But it's not the case on nearly any difficulty that you die if you take a single combo by anything but the strongest bosses strongest attacks. As for being animation-locked, yes, but that's true of every Tales game. That could be fixed but I'm not sure they want to make the games even more complex by introducing cancelling mechanics.

Dodging would be okay were you able to cancel out of move artes, but you can't, and worse you can queue multiples unintentionally. There's also other minor issues like some bosses having poor tells for what move they're going to use, or very small windows between them starting an attack and the hitboxes coming out.

Well, I hate to say it, but git gud. It's not a hard game at all, you can easily dodge constantly, just don't trap yourself in animations (I think there is also a setting to reduce the ability to queue up artes in the options). You don't even really need to see what moves bosses are going to use since you avoid all of them the same way. And if you dodge constantly, you will avoid alot of things you didn't even see coming. This isn't to say the game is perfect, and I completely agree that some artes are useless because they are simply too long of an animation, but there's a big difference between "There's a few problems" and what the TC said, that it's trash.

[Regrets1015]

Originally posted by no1schmo:

Well, I hate to say it, but git gud. It's not a hard game at all, you can easily dodge constantly, just don't trap yourself in animations (I think there is also a setting to reduce the ability to queue up artes in the options). You don't even really need to see what moves bosses are going to use since you avoid all of them the same way. And if you dodge constantly, you will avoid alot of things you didn't even see coming. This isn't to say the game is perfect, and I completely agree that some artes are useless because they are simply too long of an animation, but there's a big difference between "There's a few problems" and what the TC said, that it's trash.

i used long queue thinking it would help combat out of confusion. I didnt change it back.

I dont really play games for the challenge. Sniper Elite games are the only real exception to that. I prefer to relax and enjoy a good story with decent combat. If i really like the combat, i'll play on harder difficulty.