Other game recommendations

[mazirian72]

I bumped this thread before I realized it was in the Dominions 4 discussions. I haven't had the chance to explore games beyond Dominions but I'd like to. Recommendations don't necessarily have to be "like Dominions". For example, squad based games, war games, other kinds of strategy games, just good games with a proven track record with at least some Dom players.

[bıind]

That's a pretty broad question. I mean, my favourite game of all time is Unreal Tournament 2004, but that couldn't be more different. Games that have a little cross-over (that I'd recommend) are the following:

Path of Exile has an insanely complex and rewarding magic system, but it also has a a rediculous amount of grinding. Age of Wonders 3 has a lot of overt similarities, but it doesn't quite have Dominion's sheer depth. Total War Warhammer 2: Mortal Empires is the same, but while it's campaign map is shallower, it's multiplayer battles are deep, technical, and very underrated. Blood Bowl 2 is fantastic, but you might not like the theme. As for "normal" 4x games with no instanced battle mechanics, I can't play them anymore, Dominions is just better.

But each of those do have some pretty serious hardware requirements compared to Dominions. I hear good things about Heroes of Might and Magic (3 and 5), maybe they're worth a shot.

[AgentFransis]

If you want squad tactics try the XPiratez[openxcom.org] mod for open X-COM. It's an incredibly fun and ambitious total conversion where you play as a band of escaped super human babes that find an old abandoned base and a ship and decide to become pirates. The campaign is hundreds of hours long with a tech tree that can only be described as ♥♥♥♥-huge that's full of flavor and takes you from muskets and knives to custom plasma weapons and power armor with everything in between. This is the best iteration of X-COM over all (certainly better than the watered down Firaxis remakes, and tops the original too) and one of the best squad tactics games overall.

If you want strategy more akin to Dominions make sure to play the original Master of Magic if you haven't yet. Despite it's age it's still very fun and very few games have surpassed it in it's niche since, despite many trying. It has many similarities to dominions like having different fantastical races to play, designing your pretender (or mage in this case), researching and casting global spells etc. and also has more adventurous aspects like having heroes explore dungeons in search of loot.

[oldrocker99]

When I'm not playing Dominions, I play Heroes of Might and Magic 3, which is still the best FTBS this side of the Dominions games.

Most of my overall gametime goes to RPGs and action RPGs; Pathfinder:Kingmaker and Tower of time, the best of their type currently.

[Captain Tofu]

Originally posted by AgentFransis:

If you want strategy more akin to Dominions make sure to play the original Master of Magic if you haven't yet. Despite it's age it's still very fun and very few games have surpassed it in it's niche since, despite many trying. It has many similarities to dominions like having different fantastical races to play, designing your pretender (or mage in this case), researching and casting global spells etc. and also has more adventurous aspects like having heroes explore dungeons in search of loot.

Try Caster of Magic. It's a remake of MoM and it is awesome. Rebalanced, new content and an overall improvement.

Also: Conquest of Elysium. It's from the same developer as Dominions.

[Mali Belizec]

Distant Worlds Universe is fantastic game with greath depth. I find it to be the dominions game in space.

Battle of Wesnoth is Dominions light, i enjoy it much more then most comercial games.

Toaw 4 and advanced tactics are games that are very deep and rewarding from ww2 era.

Those are the games that I find to be real gems.

[Q'Xel]

Something rarely evocated around here (and Steam in general), is the WEGO playstyle of Dominions, which I personnaly really enjoy, and the fact that you cannot control what your troops are going to do (morale IS the most important component of warfare), as IRL.

So, I will recommand the Combat Mission serie from Battlefront.

Tactical warfare, modern or 2nd WW.

Expensive, no sales, computer ressource heavy, but frankly, one of the best system I know (apart Dom ;)

[AgentFransis]

Originally posted by Mali Belizec:

Battle of Wesnoth is Dominions light, i enjoy it much more then most comercial games.

Wesnoth is a good game but not sure what it has to do with dominions besides having some fantasy units. It's a hex based turned based tactics game.

[Captain Tofu]

Originally posted by AgentFransis:

Originally posted by Mali Belizec:

Battle of Wesnoth is Dominions light, i enjoy it much more then most comercial games.

Wesnoth is a good game but not sure what it has to do with dominions besides having some fantasy units. It's a hex based turned based tactics game.

Agree. But hey, it's for free. Can't harm, I guess. I was more perplexed about Path of Exile and Unreal Tournament 2004

Originally posted by Q'Xel:

Something rarely evocated around here (and Steam in general), is the WEGO playstyle of Dominions, which I personnaly really enjoy, and the fact that you cannot control what your troops are going to do (morale IS the most important component of warfare), as IRL.

WEGO? Never heard that term. You can't control your troops - is that called WEGO?

[Q'Xel]

For games, especially before the computer, there are 3 main game systems: IGOYOUGO and WEGO, and in between: alternate turns.

The classical IGOYOUGO is the ancestor. It’s like chess or many boardgames & cards games: while one player is acting, the others wait and do nothing. There are some variants when some interactions can be allowed for others players such as the interrupt mechanism from Magic: The Gathering or some such, but in main: while one’s playing, the others not.
It is totally unable to represent real life situations because IRL, all things happen at the same time, simultaneously.

Alternate turns has been created for trying to simulate reality better. In this system, each player plays a part of his turn, and so do the others. This is a classical style of play of a lot of tabletop wargames, and you can still find it in some computer games, especially in tactical skirmish with a system of initiative or speed (or whatever).

The WEGO system has been created for trying to represent more the reality, when everything is happening at the same time (unplayable or very difficult to attain in boardgames, for example). In the WEGO, all player prepares their turn at the same time: they plot. Then, when everyone has finished, the turn is resolved simultaneously, simulating everyone acting at the same time. We can found this in old boardgames & wargames such as Swashbuckler or Avalon Hill’s Air Force (yeah, I’m old ;o) (ok, very old ;o).
This is the system used by Dominion.
Computer science has greatly improved the playability of such games.
The Combat Mission system is a variant: the game plays in real time, but is posed every minute, then each player can adjust, cancel or give new orders to theirs troops. More precisely, the game plays in 1-minute parts (this is like a movie: you can watch what happened, but do nothing, except move the camera around to see better), then give you back the hand for you to ‘plot your turn’, i.e. give, adjust, cancel troops orders.

Computer gaming has finally introduced a fourth system, practically unavailable before: the real time. The computer does the maths and each player can play at the same time. But it is not adapted to every games, as you have only one brain (and, normally, two hands). For example, I considered it completely unrealistic to represent companies or battalions size troops engagements, because in these situations, a lot of brains, eyes and hands are involved: each single man can act individually.*
It can do wonderfully well for very small skirmishes or, of course, FPS.

*Edit: I speak from the sole point of view of ONE player by side, NOT Multiplayer.

[AgentFransis]

Originally posted by Q'Xel:

Computer gaming has finally introduced a fourth system, practically unavailable before: the real time. The computer does the maths and each player can play at the same time. But it is not adapted to every games, as you have only one brain (and, normally, two hands). For example, I considered it completely unrealistic to represent companies or battalions size troops engagements, because in these situations, a lot of brains, eyes and hands are involved: each single man can act individually.
It can do wonderfully well for very small skirmishes or, of course, FPS.

Not realistic for now. Just wait until Korea unveils it's Starcraft battalions of drones controlled by Korean kids with 500+ APM.

[mazirian72]

Thanks guys.

Interesting to see so many wargame recommendations. I actually came from Dominions via wargames. I started with Combat Mission and Close Combat and from there got into serious operational tabletop wargames (OCS series is my favorite[boardgamegeek.com], that's me reading the rules).

Getting back into computer games this time around, I'm not trying to restrict myself to wargames per se. What I'm looking for are games like Dominions that have a broad and deep "toolbox" that provide a medium for developing strategies that is as open-ended as possible (with theme being important but less so). So far I haven't found anything that comes close to Dominions in this regard but it's still wargames that seem to come the closest. TOAW 4, Command Ops 2, and Armored Brigade all look intriguing to me but also all look like serious "lifestyle" games on par with Dominions. For lighter gameplay and to scratch a different itch I've really liked Faster Than Light, Frozen Synapse, Invisible, and I'm starting to look at X-Com.

I'm enjoying everyone's thoughts so far. Keep 'em coming!

[AgentFransis]

Well if you enjoyed FTL you should try to foray into the classic roguelikes like Nethack or ADOM. It's the same concept that you choose a character class (or ship) and try to survive in a semi-randomized world while trying to get strong enough to complete your mission. These tend to be much broader than FTL with a myriad of possible tools and weapons that can be found and strategies to be pursued. They are also much harder.

[onomastikon]

I think you've gotten some good advice. As strange as it seems, I'll second the suggestion to try path of exile. It's been a while since I played it, I've had a bit enough of that type of game, but the setting is basically Diablo-like hack and slash rpg. If you like that, then PoE is really about as deep a ARPG as dominions is to TBS war games. Well that analogy is probably poor, but still: PoE is quite different. Since it's free to play, you really run little risk of losing money on a disappointing game.

[KG]

I'd add Grim Dawn to the pool. Like Path of Exile it is an ARPG with a lot of depth and tons of ways to build a character. Unlike Path of Exile it is largely focused on single-player: you don't have to go online to play, you can reasonably expect to gear your own characters, there are plenty of mods, etc. So if you like ARPGs but don't like a lot of the baggage that comes with multiplayer-centric online-only games, Grim Dawn is a good choice.

[AgentFransis]

I played Grim Dawn, and it was pretty fun. But frankly if I was to be in the mood for a Diablo clone I would choose to install Diablo 2 for the nth time instead of replaying it. Now that is a game that was polished nearly to perfection and retains it's charm through the decades.

I also tried POE years ago but quit almost immediately because the lag made it very unpleasant to play. Not sure why I would want to play single player online.