Seduction

[meglobob1]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/259060/discussions/0/350543951937778621/

Just wondered and posting on here because more player traffic. Does cat charm really protect you vs seduction?

I got a MA Pan problem, there dryads are seducing my Ulm'ish Priest Smiths / Master Smiths. Its really, really effective too. So far I had 3 disappear (I assume seduced) and a couple assassinated, the Dryads are thugged out looking for trouble.

I can't patrol because sieging a fort and you can't patrol when a Fort is present. So I guess i am a sitting duck with no defense?

Anyway what are good counters to seduction?

i did a goggle search but not alot of help / info.

[Nrak555]

I am glad they are getting to you. Never heard that they protect vs seduction but I do know increase the effectiveness of seduction. And iirc they give the ablity to seduce to female comanders.

Also didn't the cat charm change in some way from dom 4 to dom 5?

(Not the Pan player but in the same game)

[Zymeth]

Morale items like cheap fire helmet, bodyguards

[meglobob1]

Originally posted by Zymeth:

Morale items like cheap fire helmet, bodyguards

So seduction is a morale check, not a MR check?

Originally posted by nrak555:

I am glad they are getting to you. Also didn't the cat charm change in some way from dom 4 to dom 5?

I have probably played more Dominions MP then 99% of other players but no ones ever used seduction on me before, well successfully anyway (I think I had some siren attempts but they all failed). It got boosted some time in Dom 4 I believe, anyways its damn annoying, especially if Pans getting my smiths!

Just read the description of cat charm in Dom 5 and it seems to be exactly the same.

So if i raise my morale to resist the seduction do I still after face a thugged out Dryad in a assasination attempt?

So unfair, poor Ulm fighting Scelaria, Ctis & Pan and the ALL have assassins...

[Alias]

Originally posted by meglobob1:

So seduction is a morale check, not a MR check?

Both.

MR check for the seduction sequence to start at all. Morale for success/neutral/fight.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Alias:

Originally posted by meglobob1:

So seduction is a morale check, not a MR check?

Both.

MR check for the seduction sequence to start at all. Morale for success/neutral/fight.

Not entirely true, as I understand it. "Normal" seduction like that of Nagini, Troubadours and Sirens ONLY check against Morale (Seducer gets a hidden Dice Roll + Seduction Value (usually a value of 10), Defender gets a hidden Dice Roll + whatever their Morale stat is).

However, a Dream Seduction checks against Magic Resistance, not Morale (which would make sense, as the otherworldy Succubus uses methods more supernatural than simply flashing a "come hither" smile at the target.)

IIRC, it's the difference between the Dice rolls (Seduction versus Morale or MR) that determines whether or nat a Seduction/Dream Seduction is Successful, Not-Successful-But-The-Target-Doesn't-Want-to-Betray-the-Seducer, or Wholly Unsuccessful (which begins the combat).

EDIT: Also, who in their right mind would "Thug Out" a Dryad? They're not exactly terrors in combat and they die to a stiff breeze, and the amount of gems invested to negate those weaknesses would be quite expensive, indeed! ;)

EDIT 2: Ahh, this response in the Dominions 4 forums is what I was thinking of when I posted my original reply:

Originally posted by staythecourse:

Now (afer a patch changed the Seduction mechanincs in Dominions 4, ed.) Seduction rolls a single check against morale, but has a bunch of different options on failure.

Dream Seducers still roll both MR and morale, but the morale check is really strong, while nothing happens if the MR check fails. So in theory, Dream Seducers have a high probability of eventually getting you a desirable commander. In practice of course, that's only thing you can pull off against throne mages.

[Nrak555]

Originally posted by meglobob1:

Originally posted by Zymeth:

Morale items like cheap fire helmet, bodyguards

So seduction is a morale check, not a MR check?

Originally posted by nrak555:

I am glad they are getting to you. Also didn't the cat charm change in some way from dom 4 to dom 5?

I have probably played more Dominions MP then 99% of other players but no ones ever used seduction on me before, well successfully anyway (I think I had some siren attempts but they all failed). It got boosted some time in Dom 4 I believe, anyways its damn annoying, especially if Pans getting my smiths!

Just read the description of cat charm in Dom 5 and it seems to be exactly the same.

So if i raise my morale to resist the seduction do I still after face a thugged out Dryad in a assasination attempt?

So unfair, poor Ulm fighting Scelaria, Ctis & Pan and the ALL have assassins...

And yet you are holding your ground and pushing into pan. I specifically remember on one the changelogs or maybe it was the beta testers talking about how the cat charm has changed. The description is pretty opaque and has plenty of room for changes for a hard to understand mechanic.

They are thuged out so when the seduction fails they at least kill the comander. Not that hard to build aginst a small subset of targets.

[shygamer]

Seems like a couple of swarms would be all they need to kill the target, at least that's all that was required when Pan destroyed me as Gath using that tactic.

[Arkrow XIV]

Originally posted by ioticus:

Seems like a couple of swarms would be all they need to kill the target, at least that's all that was required when Pan destroyed me as Gath using that tactic.

Yeah actually a killer sending swarm, skeletons, elementals, demons is the best way to kill someone, swarm ia better because of the high amount of units that disrupt

[waTTe]

Im shure my dryads will have the total victory in horizontal and bent over warfare! 8-)

But blob didnt mention that he has some gay and or ascetic guys - the first 2 resisted, so it isnt by far as "unfair" as poor little innocent, helpless "wall of steel, rain of stones, earthquake, magma eruptions, magma bolts, iron darts, wind of blades" ulm says 8-)))

And me never claimed to be in right mind!

[meglobob1]

Originally posted by waTTe:

he has some gay and or ascetic guys - the first 2 resisted

But they then die to assassination right?

Dryad seduction seems to have a 60% chance of just making my smith 'disappear', ie seduced and even if he avoids that its death by assassination. So if I got this right 0% of living?

No one in this thread has come up with a decent way of countering it and no one seems sure of the mechanics of seduction in the 1st place, which kinda makes it hard to counter. Dryad seduction seems to be a far, far more powerful form of assassination, with no real counters.

Its so nasty because the vast amount of leaders are male and Dryads are female and a pretty cheap gold recruitment mage.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by meglobob1:

No one in this thread has come up with a decent way of countering...Dryad seduction seems to be a far, far more powerful form of assassination, with no real counters.

Well, again, you can raise the Morale of your important commanders. Even if the failed Seduction attempt leads to a battle, higher Morale will help your commanders against the Awe of the dryads.

If you're being repeatedly Seduced, you could patrol your provinces where the attacks are occuring. A thuggy-Dryad may be good against a single target, but more than likely couldn't handle a whole army by themselves.

Are you assigning bodyguards to your commanders? Are you moving important commanders away from provinces where the Seductions/assassinations are occuring? Are you recruiting "decoys" (cheap independent commanders that may be chosen as Seduction/Assassination targets instead of the important commanders)?

[meglobob1]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

Originally posted by meglobob1:

No one in this thread has come up with a decent way of countering...Dryad seduction seems to be a far, far more powerful form of assassination, with no real counters.

Well, again, you can raise the Morale of your important commanders. Even if the failed Seduction attempt leads to a battle, higher Morale will help your commanders against the Awe of the dryads.

If you're being repeatedly Seduced, you could patrol your provinces where the attacks are occuring. A thuggy-Dryad may be good against a single target, but more than likely couldn't handle a whole army by themselves.

Are you assigning bodyguards to your commanders? Are you moving important commanders away from provinces where the Seductions/assassinations are occuring? Are you recruiting "decoys" (cheap independent commanders that may be chosen as Seduction/Assassination targets instead of the important commanders)?

Yep! Doing all of this, no good.

[LDiCesare]

Fighting seduction requires +morale items, patrols, OR not having an enemy province right next to yours.
The dryads take away commanders to the nearby neighboring province. They cannot seduce people far from home, contrary to succubi.
Thus a solution is to not put your mages next to enemy provinces. That's not easy when you're on the front, but it certainly shows that seduction is not stronger than assassination as it's less versatile.

[waTTe]

I have so much fun in this thread 8-) much more than in the game were Im mostly slaugthered ...

Is you memory such bad blob?
First 2 dryads failed their seduction and got killed in the following assasination - that has to be something higher than 0% ...

Originally posted by meglobob1:

So if I got this right 0% of living?

So no you dont.

Next 5, 3 seduced, 2 won their assasination. Wow - I really needed that!

Originally posted by meglobob1:

Its so nasty because the vast amount of leaders are male and Dryads are female and a pretty cheap gold recruitment mage.

185 gold cheap? Well, I forgot your income is also much higher than mine and you may compare this to highly expensive master smith (135).

Come on blob stop whining and claiming unfairness, cause some nation has a tiny little counter to what you are doing ... You have what left? around 40 smiths at my front alone ...

<- bangs his head on the keyboard, but still smiling ... 8-)))

p.s.: any hints for me to further enhance this? 8-)

[DasaKamov]

I'm going to point out that MP game-related "trash-talk" should be kept to that game's own forum thread, if any.