Some questions: Haste, fatigue, Spirit helm, nbr of attacks

[madocs]

Some questions if possible:

1) If you have haste going, does the fatigue incurred =
a) 2x (encumberance - reinvig),
or b) (2x encumberance) - reinvig?

2) If a weapons has number of attacks > 1 (ie 2 or 3), will they attack other targets that round? ie. say you had 3 guys in front of you, and you had wavebreaker (number of attacks=3), presuming you hit all 3 and damaged them enough to kill each of them, would you kill all 3 in that one combat round, or would it only hit one guy 3 times? Hence killing only 1 guy.

3) Does spirit helm (lightning helm that shoots lightning) shot a lightning bolt every combat round or every second round? Would that be affected by haste? (or should I get the horned helmet)


I was wondering about the benefit of instead going with a stock standard SC-lite firebrand/golden shield, to go with a haste guy wielding either 2 swords of swiftness(is that the item), and a lightnign helm or gore helmet, and chi shoes --> hence 6 attackes per round x haste = 12 attacks per combat round... or some possible viable mix

Theoretically what encumb / reinvig I would need to do it, and if the multiple attacks from the one weapon would kill more than one unit.... realistically perhap just haste, and wavebreaker perhaps and gore helm or lightning helm.... If I wanted to not gain fatigue (ie. combat lasting >50 rounds)...

I have used my wish to raise a "Seraph" for a SC, and then gift of reason them... They are awesome! Any other thoughts on a good end stage SC chasis?

Any thoughts?

[sunbeam]

I'm partial to Golems. The S2 is ok for combat buffing, but they get Damage Reduction and as constructs they are immune to a whole slew of stuff.

Really the immunities make them interesting to use, even if you can also summon units like Dai Oni or Wratithlords.

[madocs]

Golems don't regen though do they unless you take them back to a lab.. Is that correct? I know you can get a bless that can fix that, but it would then have to be sacred or blessed for regen to work. Mind you that is a lot easier that a "wish" then "Gift of Reason"

Thanks Sunbeam

[terve886]

1)Not sure, haven't tested it that much.

2)Unfortunately the attacks can only target the same target. In Dominions4 multi attack items could have multiple targets, but in Dominions5 all those attacks are limited to same target.

3)Spirit Helm should fire a lightning bolt once every turn and quickness doesn't affect it.

4)SCs and thugs prefer having extra defences over extra offense. The defence will help the units survive much longer in prolonged battles, while the extra offense might help you force enemy routing faster in smaller skirmishes. In larger battles however the extra incoming damage will kill some enemies, but the golem will be swarmed by new enemies that surround it once again.

Really high damage outputs can work, but you will need a lot of such units and even then, you probably want those units to have ability to reach safely enemy rear to wreck havoc using flight, kill possible weak rearguard and proceed to slaughter mage lines in the back before main army repositions to surrender your unit.

I would also say that boots of quickness give better attack out put than the Chi shoes, but boosts of stone are better at giving protection. Golems are also unaffected by encumbarance in melee combat, so don't worry about it.

As for wishable units/chassisses, you could also wish uttervast or vastness. They are probably not as powerfull as Seraph though and Laestrytogian Tyrant can also be nice SCs.

[madocs]

Terve, thanks so much for that!

Was looking at the harrassment penalty as well... I thought that the harrasment penalty would reset at the beginning of each combat round, but that isn't true... It just gets reduced by a certain percentage amount... That means avoidance really is very very necessary as you note (not just mitigation). The seraphs have a high awe already, which meant I wasn't as worried about protection.... (although missiles, and spells are another matter that a shield really helps prevent damage from)

Just a matter of juggling it to best effect I guess.

Helm of gore will probably be affected by haste (my bless), but not spirit helm... but lightning damage is AN... probably depends upon whether strength whether helm of gore or lightning helm is better on a hasted unit.

[Alias]

1. b) below 100 fatigue ... in theory Quickness units above 100 fatigue might restore (2x4+(1+Reinvig)) instead of (4+(1+Reinvig)) but haven't tested it.

With SCs it's about layers of protection (you may find the discussion about that in the 5.27 Bugs sticky interesting).

[Morsigil]

A small nitpick, so people don't get confused: "Haste" generally refers to the spell effects that increase combat movement speed. "Quickness" refers to the spell effect/bless effect that increases the defense and attack of a unit while also doubling the number of attacks it has per round.

Even though multi-attack weapons like the sword of swiftness will only hit one target with their attacks, a quickened unit with 2 swords of swiftness, a horned helm, and chi boots could attack 8 difference targets. 4 of those targets would be hit by the swords, which would each have 2 attacks. 12 total attacks, 8 total targets. Those 8 targets can be spread across multiple squares. Such a unit would have the potential of clearing multiple squares of human troops, though more likely they'll kill some and lop off the limbs of more.

As a thug/SC killer this wouldn't necessarily be a bad setup, though I'd probably swap out a sword of swiftness for a Flesh Eater if available.

[madocs]

Thanks guys,

Yes I should have said quickness.

hmmm if it is 1b as the answer, I will really have to watch encumberance! :(

Morsigil, why a flesh eater? I would imagine a draining weapon would be better to counter encumberance.

I know of blood thorn, but I haven't seen any other worthwhile life drain weapons.

[Morsigil]

Flesh Eater gives the enemy the "chest wound" affliction. This would be specifically if you were trying to counter thug/SC. As you've rightly noted fatigue is often the real killer of these tough individual units. As such, giving a unit a chest wound, which adds 5 fatigue to each round of attacks, helps put a thug or SC out of commission quicker.

[madocs]

Necro'd:

I am still not sure and have conflicting information:

1) If you have quickness going and 2 weapons (dual) and chi shoes, does the fatigue incurred =

a) (2 x encumberance) - reinvig

or

b) (2 [quickness] x 3 [ 3 weapons ] x encumberance ) - reinvig

does each weapon or helm or shoes etc count towards encumberance or is it only doubling attacks totally with quickness that doubles encumberance?

[Rovsea]

If by haste you mean the spell that grants swiftness, it should not impact fatigue/encumbrance too my knowledge; quickness, since it causes the unit to attack twice in one battle round, will effectively double the encumbrance penalty such a unit may have (2x encumbrance due to attacks, then subtract reinvig). Swiftness effect only increases AP (or combat speed, as it is more commonly known), and doesn't cause more attacks to occur.

[madocs]

Thanks Rovsea,

If you have multiple attacks, say horned helm, chi shoes, or 2 weapons, does that effect your encumbrance?

[Alias]

Originally posted by madocs:

Thanks Rovsea,

If you have multiple attacks, say horned helm, chi shoes, or 2 weapons, does that effect your encumbrance?

No, and whoever told you that is really confused how the game works.

[madocs]

Thanks for the Clarification Alias