Why are pretender god avatars locked for disciple?

[Captiva]

I really like to play with allies in the game, but all the pretenders I enjoy playing are locked for disciple game mode when you play as the pretender god. Why?

The options left do no interest me much, and honestly this is the only problem I am having with the game right now. I love to play single player, but either I accept I cannot control the bless spells or dominion to pick the god I want, or I have to pick one I do not want to use at all really.

If a dev reads this, can you please just unlock the pretender gods for all modes? Love the game, but this is really a bummer to me.
Locking away content from the player is not fun, and will only take away player enjoyment of the game. I think I should be able to pick any god I want any time.

Maybe save restrictions for multiplayer if that is the reason for this locked content, but let single player people use them.

[zmo]

Originally posted by Red_Rob:

The Pretender has Dominion, Disciples don't get to pick it. This is why Disciples get slightly less points, as they don't have to put any points into Dominion.

Sure, but each chassis still has a default dominon score. The point I was trying to make is that even a human chassis can get above an immobile's base score pretty easily, and almost all serious players would design them to do so, so it's kind of silly to say humans can't be pretenders in disciple games because they don't have enough dominion.

[Captiva]

So as Emperor of Ermor I am powerful enough to be a god and rule a massive empire and even rule the world, with power more then comparable to any other pretender god but as soon as I get allies under me, I am too weak to be worshipped unless I am a giant statue or fountain? This makes no sense at all from logic or lore perspective.

Seems to me that it is just an arbitrary rule that was put in place because someone thought it sounded good. It does not make sense from a game mechanic prespective, or a lore perspective.

As the player I am the one who brings the game to life and fills in the story and lore as I play, do not see the need to restrict player choice and lock content "just because".

Forcing me to either choose to play as the god I want, but losing out on some of the biggest features of the game like custom bless and dominion, or pick a giant statue I hate and ruin my fun and the story I want to tell.

Also as has been mentioned, you can choose to make your dominion as strong or weak as you want, so saying they are have weaker dominion does not make sense and Since when in history or myth has a giant fountain been worshipped as a god? People are the ones who rule and were worshiped as gods, pharoh of egypt, zeus and his kids, and many more. Since when were giant statues and fountains the most powerful beings worshipped? Apparently only in dominions.

I am fine with having them as an option if you want to be statues and stuff, but telling me they are superior gods and forcing me to use them to be able to use core game content like custom bless and custom dominion in a disciple game makes no sense to me.

I am hoping the devs will consider changing this without the need to mod the game files. I would honestly like to know how letting players pick the pretender god they wanted would ruin or hurt the game at all.

[Drithyl]

Originally posted by Captiva:

So as Emperor of Ermor I am powerful enough to be a god and rule a massive empire and even rule the world, with power more then comparable to any other pretender god but as soon as I get allies under me, I am too weak to be worshipped unless I am a giant statue or fountain? This makes no sense at all from logic or lore perspective.

Seems to me that it is just an arbitrary rule that was put in place because someone thought it sounded good. It does not make sense from a game mechanic prespective, or a lore perspective.

As the player I am the one who brings the game to life and fills in the story and lore as I play, do not see the need to restrict player choice and lock content "just because".

Forcing me to either choose to play as the god I want, but losing out on some of the biggest features of the game like custom bless and dominion, or pick a giant statue I hate and ruin my fun and the story I want to tell.

I am hoping the devs will consider changing this without the need to mod the game files. I would honestly like to know how letting players pick the pretender god they wanted would ruin or hurt the game at all.

You're twisting the lore there. Picking Ermor, you are powerful enough to either be a pretender to the throne of the Pantokrator, or powerful enough to be a disciple to a pretender of the throne. That's what the disciples game mode implies.

It does make sense from a game mechanic perspective. That you don't like those mechanics doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. With the current disciple mode mechanic, you can make team combinations with effects that you wouldn't achieve otherwise, specifically related to some nations' dominion's effects, like Agartha's boosting the HP of constructs. If Agartha is picked as pretender, this effect extends to any other nation picked as disciple, since they share the dominion. So a player could effectively play, say, Ulm, while also receiving the benefit of Agarthan dominion. It's a mix and match system.

Further, I'd argue that a game mode in which each team member is a full-fledged Pretender is trickier than you think, in terms of game mechanics. Suppose a team game in which every team member is a pretender with his own dominion, bless, scales, etc. That means that they are constantly pushing each other's dominion in and out of their provinces, thus affecting their teammate's scales, or where their pretender can get the benefits of his own bless, or even going so far as to killing a teammate because of extinguishing their dominion.

Now how do you justify that, lore-wise? Two different religions and beliefs are allies while simultaneously stealing the other's followers through their dominion? How are two different religions even allies in the first place?

Remember that, contrary to what you first claim, you are not playing an Emperor or a King, you are playing a God, and there is only one God that can ascend to the position of Pantokrator. Sure, you can ignore all this and create your own take on the lore and the game you are playing, but you can't expect the developers to twist their own lore to suit your personal taste, since there are thousands of players with different tastes.

And I say all this while not being against a theoretical team game mode in which every nation can be a pretender. I just don't see such a mode very viable or justifiable with the current game mechanics, and there isn't ingame diplomacy either to make or break temporary alliances with the AI until the game ends. If ingame diplomacy was a thing, then sure, you could start the game without allies, and forge alliances with other Pretenders, but at the end of the day, if the goal of the game was (like it is now) to ascend as the sole Pantokrator, those alliances would be temporary anyway.

Your first request of being able to pick any shape for both the pretenders and disciples is more reasonable, but the disciples would still be disciples and they would not be able to pick their own dominion score, have their own bless, or their own scales.

[Captiva]

I am not asking for disciples to be able to choose custom bless and dominion. I am just asking for all non conflicting pretender gods to be unlocked to choose as the pretender god in a disciple game.

If you choose the emperor pretender god, you are playing as an emperor. So not sure what you are getting at here. If the emperor is powerful enough to be a god in one game, but in another when he has disciples he is not apparently.

No lore twisting required, or making and breaking alliances or anything crazy here at all, just let the player pick the avatar the want.
Respectfully, not sure how you keep twising everything i say into me asking to rip apart the fabric of time.


Nothing you pointed out explains why the player should not be able to choose the avatar the want as a pretender god in disciple mode. I think I have put out very good points for the most part, and the only answer I seem to get is that some of you just don't see the point.

Would be better to just remove the very very few gods that would cause "conflicts" such as agartha, then to remove all of the others that do not cause any problems. That is a very simple thing to do.

Maybe I did not make clear enough that I am reffering to only the pretender god in a disciple game and am NOT at all requesting all disciples be allowed custom dominion and bless. I am only asking for every not conflicting avatar to be available to choose instead of only dom 3 and 4 ones.

[Drithyl]

Maybe I misunderstood your post, but here's a literal quote from it in which I believe you claim now that you'd like to pick custom bless and dominion (emphasis mine):

Originally posted by Captiva:

[...] but losing out on some of the biggest features of the game like custom bless and dominion, or pick a giant statue I hate and ruin my fun and the story I want to tell.

As for the Emperor thing, I was getting at the fact that while two Emperors of different nations could be allied, two Gods whose goal is to ascend to a single throne, the Pantokrator's, is a little harder to justify, lore-wise.

As I said, unlocking every form for both pretenders and disciples could be done. I myself like the fact that disciples are inherently "lesser" forms than the pretender gods they follow, but sure, lore-wise it can be argued in many ways.

EDIT: on a second read of your original post, yes, I believe I misunderstood the part about having separate blesses and dominion. My apologies.

[Captiva]

What I meant more specifically was that for me to play as the emperor god avatar in a disciple game, I would have to be a disciple, as there is no option to play as the emperor god avatar if you choose to be a pretender god.

So I can only choose my magic and nothing else if I want to be the emperor god avatar and lose out on the ability to choose a custom bless and dominion.

So in order to play as him in a disciple game, I have to lose out on some of the coolest features of the game to play as a disciple, or choose an avatar of a giant or statue to get to use those features in a disciple game.

I may have not made it clear enough as to what I was asking, so my bad on that.

[Drithyl]

To be fair, if you are playing singleplayer, you can make yourself a disciple, choose the form you want, and create the pretender of your team to your liking, with its bless and dominion. Not sure if you noticed the Create Pretender God for Disciple Game option in the Game Tools, which you can then assign to an AI nation (in this case, the one from your team). You can also do it when creating the game itself, I believe, as the game asks you for a pretender/disciple design for each AI nation added.

[Captiva]

I did not know you could assign them to an A.I. nation. That would solve one part of the problem for me, but would still be cool to pick the avatar I want.

Thanks though for letting me know about that, I am going to check it out now.

[Captiva]

I do not see any option to add a custom pretender god to the A.I. i a disciple game. I created one and set everything up and did not see any options to add my custom pretender god to my A.I. pretender god ally. It only gave me an option to create my disciple god and it choose a random one for the pretender god A I

[Drithyl]

Hm, you are right. I somehow remembered that it was that way, but it only happens with human players. Fear not, there's an alternative: make the pretender of your team a human player too, create the pretender, and on the first turn, make him go AI, so that the AI controls the nation. You can do this by clicking on Options in the ingame screen, then at the bottom "Become AI controlled". After doing that you still need to end the turn of the nation for it to confirm.

[Captiva]

Ok, I will give that a shot, sounds like it will work. Thanks!

Edit: Yup that worked!! At least I can customize the bless and domionion now while using the avatar I want. Thanks again for the help.