Trample vs Vine shield / Petrification (cf. Gorgon or The Aegis)

[Silence]

Hello,

With 5.11 I see Awe is now working against trampler. But what about Vine shield and Petrification, shouldn't it work also ? (I tested, it doesn't). What do you think ?

[Drithyl]

Not sure I understand the question. The vine shield triggers when being attacked, so the attacker having awe would not offer any protection, since awe triggers when he's attacked, not attacking. The same goes for petrification.

[Silence]

No, what I mean is that when a trampler attack a unit with a vine shield or petrification, neither the vine shield nor the petrification work. For example, imagine a gorgon with a vine shield attacked by a horde of elephants : the elephants crush the gorgon and are never entangled nor petrified.

I'd expect vine shield and petrification to work as awe now in 5.11 : have them triggered by a trample attack.

[Drithyl]

Okay, yeah, on re-reading your original question I just completely missed the point before. Well, petrification should work, IMO. Vine shield can be more arguable, since it's a bit harder to tangle a horde of elephants charging forward than to tangle the arms of a human spearman, say. But if anything it should probably still trigger, since there are tramplers are lower sizes, like troglogytes.

[Althaea]

Petrification absolutely should work. Vine Shield should also work, though logically speaking I'm then tempted to argue that it should also be possible for sufficiently strong units to break out of entanglement without needing to spend a "round" on it (as is the case in Conquest of Elysium), which is a category many tramplers would fall into. Similarly for units with sufficient Magic or Fire Resistance versus False Fetters and Bonds of Fire/Prison of Fire, respectively.

[Drithyl]

Originally posted by alguLoD:

Petrification absolutely should work. Vine Shield should also work, though logically speaking I'm then tempted to argue that it should also be possible for sufficiently strong units to break out of entanglement without needing to spend a "round" on it (as is the case in Conquest of Elysium), which is a category many tramplers would fall into. Similarly for units with sufficient Magic or Fire Resistance versus False Fetters and Bonds of Fire/Prison of Fire, respectively.

Agreed.

[joinone_pei]

Well since all of these kind of issues were discussed in the older trample/awe behavior thread, I think we should expect these to be fixed in the future one by one.

The Vine shield problem was trampler totally ignores the effect without checking for strength.

[terve886]

Originally posted by joinone_pei:

Well since all of these kind of issues were discussed in the older trample/awe behavior thread, I think we should expect these to be fixed in the future one by one.

The Vine shield problem was trampler totally ignores the effect without checking for strength.

VIne shield actually tests MR when making the effect, while breaking the vines takes a strength check.

Most tramplers (such as elephants) have poor MR, making them extremely useless against units with vine shield if vineshield worked against them. I am not saying that vineshields should not work against tramling. Just poiting out that it tests MR to trigger the effect.

[Silence]

Originally posted by terve886:

Originally posted by joinone_pei:

Well since all of these kind of issues were discussed in the older trample/awe behavior thread, I think we should expect these to be fixed in the future one by one.

The Vine shield problem was trampler totally ignores the effect without checking for strength.

VIne shield actually tests MR when making the effect, while breaking the vines takes a strength check.

Most tramplers (such as elephants) have poor MR, making them extremely useless against units with vine shield if vineshield worked against them. I am not saying that vineshields should not work against tramling. Just poiting out that it tests MR to trigger the effect.

Well, there are other tramplers with better MR (earth elementals for example)

[Drithyl]

If what alguLoD said is implemented, the MR wouldn't matter much on elephants, given they'd have enough strength (and size) to break free without even spending a round tangled.