Beast trainer with salamanders, negative morale

[Jacknine]

I cant work out why this is, the salamanders have -2 morale (Commander morale bonus -1, -1 for formation modifier)

The beast trainer is brand new, does he need more experience?, what can I do about the formation?

[gazomierz]

I don't think you can do anything. Salamanders are undisciplined, they are forced to use skirmish formation and that gives -1 morale. Trainer gives further -1, as his general morale modifier which would apply to any troops assigned to him. But he's got Beastmaster trait, so he gives your salamanders +3 morale boost. In the end it nets you +1 morale.

[Burden of Brine]

If Salamanders are Undisciplined, there is nothing to do about the -1 formation penalty.

And there is nothing one can do about the Beast Trainer either, as I believe those have 10 base leadership which means a base -1 penalty to morale for units he leads, as well as only being able to use Box and Skirmish formation for units under his command.

[Mormacil]

Because of his poor morale the squads under the Beast Trainer have negative morale but because Salamanders are Animals each individual one lead by a Beast Master gets a bigger boost then the malus they receive.

[Clark-o-matic]

Yeah, I don't get t e point of the Beastmaster. Morale doesn't seem to be any better for the animals under their commend. I wonder if this is a mistake that developers should fix. Can anyone tell me how you are suppose to use them?

[DasaKamov]

Like Mormacil said, the morale bonus given by the Beast Trainer's "Beastmaster" trait is greater than the morale penalties the Salmanders get. The total breakdown of modifiers is -2 for being Undisciplined and led by a poor leader, and +3 from the Beastmaster bonus, for a total of +1 morale to all animals lead by the Beast Trainer.

[Rovsea]

Technically speaking you could counter-act this by blessing the beast masters while you have the inspirational leadership bless, but this is probably just more trouble than it's worth.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Rovsea:

you could counter-act this by blessing the beast masters

I'm pretty sure Abysia's Beast Trainers are not sacred. ;)

[freek_o_nature]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

I'm pretty sure Abysia's Beast Trainers are not sacred. ;)

True, though a Shroud of the Battle Saint would work for this purpose. Hopefully the Bless is worth trading in their Plate Hauberk for a dirty t-shirt. :/

[Dast]

At that point you could just use a crown of command or something, and then why give it to a beastmaster?


What is relevant is how much Moral the beastmasters add to the salamanders over "what you would have had otherwise".

With a warlord leading the salamanders they are at:
-1 moral from undisciplined
Overall: -1.

With a beastmaster they are at:
-1 moral from undisciplined, -1 moral from poor leadership, +3 moral Beastmaster bonus:
Overall: +1.

So they ares 2 better than the alternative.

[baumgarm]

Originally posted by Dast:

With a warlord leading the salamanders they are at:
-1 moral from undisciplined
Overall: -1.

With a beastmaster they are at:
-1 moral from undisciplined, -1 moral from poor leadership, +3 moral Beastmaster bonus:
Overall: +1.

So they ares 2 better than the alternative.

Actually, the warlord has good leadership (i.e. 80 leadership) and therefore grants a +1 moral bonus to all the units it's leading. This effectively negates the undisciplined moral malus for a net of +0. Still worse than the net +1 from the beastmaster, but then, you're buying a lot more 'commander' when you get a warlord.

One niche the beastmaster has over the warlord, however, is that he also has 10 magical leadership. Salamanders aren't magical beings, so they can be led by anyone, however if you did need someone to ferry around a handful of magic beings, a beastmaster can do that where a warlord cannot.

Though I'd probably have one of the mages do that instead since they'd do it at least as well and several have average or better leadership to boot.

[Big Dog]

Originally posted by baumgarm:

Originally posted by Dast:

With a warlord leading the salamanders they are at:
-1 moral from undisciplined
Overall: -1.

With a beastmaster they are at:
-1 moral from undisciplined, -1 moral from poor leadership, +3 moral Beastmaster bonus:
Overall: +1.

So they ares 2 better than the alternative.

Actually, the warlord has good leadership (i.e. 80 leadership) and therefore grants a +1 moral bonus to all the units it's leading. This effectively negates the undisciplined moral malus for a net of +0. Still worse than the net +1 from the beastmaster, but then, you're buying a lot more 'commander' when you get a warlord.

One niche the beastmaster has over the warlord, however, is that he also has 10 magical leadership. Salamanders aren't magical beings, so they can be led by anyone, however if you did need someone to ferry around a handful of magic beings, a beastmaster can do that where a warlord cannot.

Though I'd probably have one of the mages do that instead since they'd do it at least as well and several have average or better leadership to boot.

Unless it's fire snakes which are both magical and animals and only have 13 base morale.

[Dast]

Good point, I forgot Warlords were good leaders.

Fire drakes might be a unit worth ferrying with beastmasters. When they end up behind the Abyssians they are supporting it can be very strong. (I can image that fire-drakes who end up with a limp might be much better than the unwounded ones for this? Less likely to run ahead of the slower moving wall of abysians).