RWS should restart and rebuild the game from the ground up

[Zero(the number)]

This may sound extreme (because it is) but alot of the games issues come from the fundamentals of the game with probably the biggest problems being maps and missions

1. The map is way too big for its own good
Alot of postal 4's issues would be solved if the map was shrunken down by alot since the game has too much open space and large gaps between missions that just feel completely empty which would be fixed if everything was more condensed and packed together since a large part of postal was exploring the maps for goodies to help the player and the large size of the map prevents this from being fun

2. Most of the missions are boring and unfun
This may sound like a positive since postal is about doing daily tasks ITS NOT the tasks are boring and unfun not because their chores but because their chores you have no way of interacting with for example in postal 2 when you get milk you have multiple ways of handling the task like killing the store owner and stealing the milk to avoid having to fight the terrorists in the building or just paying for it. in postal 4 this same mission lacks what made postal 2's version fun since you just grab the milk and leave. there are postal 4 missions that are actually fun [kunny island is great] but most are a complete slog

3. Most house are empty or the exact same as the house right next door
as the title suggests most house just feel like clones of eachother rather than a unique building each time like in postal 2, buildings like the apartment complex or the hotel make sense to be the exact same room each time but everything else just feels like the developers got lazy making the buildings and because their all the same it feels unfun to explore.

4. The comedy is too safe
Most of the jokes in postal 4 play it too safe and dont go far into the politically incorrect edgy humour that the previous games had and as much as postal 3 sucked atleast it tried to be somewhat offensive and topical even brain damaged had this too but postal 4 feels like you got a twitter user to rewrite postal 2 it feels so safe and non offensive that it feels like a parody of postal instead of an actual postal game

5. Game is poorly optimised

6. RWS keeps focusing on other things rather than fixing or updating the game such as the plushies they keep shilling

7. Every character is the exact same
all enemies are exactly the same with some just having more health which yes this is a problem postal 2 had aswell but atleast postal 2 had zombies and postal 3 actually does this well since theres multiple enemies and boss enemies but postal 4 has person with a gun or melee weapon and all the bosses are just the same thing with more health which doesnt count as enemy variety

[Zeron]

We've addressed similar suggestions to redo the whole game before and the simple answer is no. This answer should be pretty obvious to anyone who's minimaly informed about game development.


For a more complete answer.

1- The map is indeed too big, we are aware of that for quite some time. But instead of making it smaller, we are adding to it and it already provides a lot as it is (easter eggs, 94% of buildings have interiors you can enter, collectibles, loot, etc). If we compare to POSTAL 2, it really isn't that tedious to go to specific areas due to fast travel boards and vehicles.

2 - We do have plenty of errands that have multiple different outcomes, Kunny Island for example has a bunch of them. Animal Catcher is another, and it's getting an overhaul for the next update. Border Smuggler has two possible outcomes. Fix Race is another one with multiple outcomes... you get the idea, there's plenty of variety in these missions, please look more into it.

3 - You can enter 94% of buildings in this game and these interiors have far better quality than what you've seen in POSTAL 2, not just in terms of quantity but also quality. I dunno what to tell you, the only problem the game currently has is a lack of NPCs in some interiors but that's being addressed, but most houses do have NPCs in them already.

4 - There's absolutely nothing political/edgy/etc about returning a library book, getting steaks and many other P2 missions, that narrative doesn't make sense despite it being overly used by many. Still, you can debate that all you want, it just doesn't make sense to me.

5 - Sharing your specs and the frames you're getting would be very helpful. It's important to know because despite the game being on a modern engine, some people insist the game should run on really old hardware like laptops from 2016. Regardless, optimization is something that has always been and still is being worked on and the game runs just fine on modern hardware.

6 - Designing and ordering plushies for factories to make doesn't halt the development of the game. We may be few, but we don't have the whole team suddenly shifting all work and resources towards merch. The marketing and business department doesn’t work on the game and has plenty of time to advertise and sell dolls

7 - Visual-wise and in terms of stats, hard disagree. In terms of AI, it's still a slight step up from previous games, with further improvements still in the horizon.

[⚡Electro Javaboy⚡]

This is for Zer0n.

1. Adding more houses and more junk to collect is not how you solve the large open world issue. the map lack any interesting route when it comes to traversal, and adding fast travel only hides the problem. I suggest adding more walls to break down sightlines on some area, while opening some of them as a shortcut.

2. I think this comes down to the fact that the duration Postal 4 missions can be very lenghty and boring while most postal 2 mission are very quick to finish.
Now, before you guys released an update to add more gunfights to the mission, Just stop. It's annoying.

3. I think this is due to the fact that postal 2 have less houses but have more interesting building and spots which not only fun to explore but also very useful when it comes to traversal, such as providing cover on higher difficulty. The key here is utility.

4. I agree

5. No comment on this one

6. Now this is where most of my frustation comes in. It doesn't have anything to do with plushies but why every updates always focused on short terms stuff. Small visual stuff, more weapons, some open world fixes. But even when you focused on long term stuff, it falls short. I appreciate that you guys addressed a lot of issues, but there is one issue you guys refused to address. The issue is also game breaking and fundamental, yet only small portion of people mentioned it. The save system, WHY THE ♥♥♥♥ IS THIS STUPID THING STILL EXIST?! At the very least we should've have gotten a report of the progress of this fix. This is probably one of the legit reason to rebuild the game.

7. Somewhat agree.

[Zero(the number)]

Originally posted by Zeron:

We've addressed similar suggestions to redo the whole game before and the simple answer is no. This answer should be pretty obvious to anyone who's minimaly informed about game development.


For a more complete answer.

1- The map is indeed too big, we are aware of that for quite some time. But instead of making it smaller, we are adding to it and it already provides a lot as it is (easter eggs, 94% of buildings have interiors you can enter, collectibles, loot, etc). If we compare to POSTAL 2, it really isn't that tedious to go to specific areas due to fast travel boards and vehicles.

2 - We do have plenty of errands that have multiple different outcomes, Kunny Island for example has a bunch of them. Animal Catcher is another, and it's getting an overhaul for the next update. Border Smuggler has two possible outcomes. Fix Race is another one with multiple outcomes... you get the idea, there's plenty of variety in these missions, please look more into it.

3 - You can enter 94% of buildings in this game and these interiors have far better quality than what you've seen in POSTAL 2, not just in terms of quantity but also quality. I dunno what to tell you, the only problem the game currently has is a lack of NPCs in some interiors but that's being addressed, but most houses do have NPCs in them already.

4 - There's absolutely nothing political/edgy/etc about returning a library book, getting steaks and many other P2 missions, that narrative doesn't make sense despite it being overly used by many. Still, you can debate that all you want, it just doesn't make sense to me.

5 - Sharing your specs and the frames you're getting would be very helpful. It's important to know because despite the game being on a modern engine, some people insist the game should run on really old hardware like laptops from 2016. Regardless, optimization is something that has always been and still is being worked on and the game runs just fine on modern hardware.

6 - Designing and ordering plushies for factories to make doesn't halt the development of the game. We may be few, but we don't have the whole team suddenly shifting all work and resources towards merch. The marketing and business department doesn’t work on the game and has plenty of time to advertise and sell dolls

7 - Visual-wise and in terms of stats, hard disagree. In terms of AI, it's still a slight step up from previous games, with further improvements still in the horizon.

1. that doesnt fix the problem of tasks been too far apart and also still doesnt make exploring fun

2. when i say different outcomes i mean stuff that actually changes gameplay like the race is an example of it done right but still most are not since their too long and the differences usually dont affect gameplay that much

3. this is almost just flat out a lie almost every interior in postal 2 is higher quality and has more to do inside of it while postal 4's just feel like copy and pasting with quantity being the only difference, Hell even postal 3 did interiors better than postal 4 and everyone ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hates that game

4. this is highly disingenuous since postal 2 came out 2 years after 9/11 and featured muslim extremists in one of the main line missions [yeah totally not offensive in any way] The censored mini games such as degatory name for gay people hunter or teen sniper [referencing school shootings isnt offensive right?] and probably the worst example is it literally has a mission referencing a time where the ATF bombed and murdered a bunch of innocent civillians and children [there are more but 3 is enough to get the point across]

5. the game looks worse than a ps3 game yet cant run on that hardware, why does this game require higher specs than GTA 5 on max settings? this game has no right to require that amount of processing power and if multiple people are complaining that is probably a sign that it should be worked on, also lots of people with pretty recent hardware have issues with performance so its not a pc issue

6. electroboy mentioned what i really meant by this but also another thing was that the studio keeps claiming to be small yet you have merchandise people constantly pumping out plushies which makes no sense wouldnt it make more sense to have people working on the game?

7. you basically missed my point, almost every enemy does look the same [main difference being what they wear] and having more health doesnt make them different, also the AI is god awful, im not sure who playtested the game but you should sue for how much of a terrible job they did since the AI constantly breaks even yandere simulator has better AI and that game is made by one guy who is also a creep

[Praxis]

i believe these to be completely valid. the issue is that there is no way to execute what you are asking for which is to start over with a ground up rework. maybe something like steam workshop can help in that area later.

[Elucidator]

Make your own game; that will diffidently satisfy you.

It is going to be extremely difficult regardless of what happens to optimize the game in a way that satisfies you with vague instructions and no details. The only one who can as such create the envisioned game you have will therefore be you @OP.
For example: 1. "Everything feels empty"
Go ahead and pay for assets or artists or make them yourself and fill up a map that feels filled, even when you explore the topsides of the buildings (or prevent the player from reaching the skies so that there are always walls around them instead of an open space) for example.
Also place events that just take away the player's capability to play; such as cutscenes that force them on the next mission.
Now try balancing that out and somehow make it fun and affortable.

[Zero(the number)]

Originally posted by Elucidator:

Make your own game; that will diffidently satisfy you.

It is going to be extremely difficult regardless of what happens to optimize the game in a way that satisfies you with vague instructions and no details. The only one who can as such create the envisioned game you have will therefore be you @OP.
For example: 1. "Everything feels empty"
Go ahead and pay for assets or artists or make them yourself and fill up a map that feels filled, even when you explore the topsides of the buildings (or prevent the player from reaching the skies so that there are always walls around them instead of an open space) for example.
Also place events that just take away the player's capability to play; such as cutscenes that force them on the next mission.
Now try balancing that out and somehow make it fun and affortable.

1. how the hell was anything i said "vague"
2. I actually am working on my own game that im doing nearly everything for
3. the dev said to add more the open world when i said to shrink it, your confusing whos saying what
4. postal 2 had basically everything i wanted in this thread
5. most of what you said doesnt even make sense

[Saethulu]

Originally posted by Zero(the number):

6. electroboy mentioned what i really meant by this but also another thing was that the studio keeps claiming to be small yet you have merchandise people constantly pumping out plushies which makes no sense wouldnt it make more sense to have people working on the game?

You have obviously never had merch made for something you're attached to. It's easy. When you already have some kind of IP, you send someone x amount of money for x amount of product based off your IP. Some design work may be needed. Often times, you'll already have the source material that can be made into merch with only minor adjustments, or adjustments that whoever is actually doing production of the merch will make on their own.

Plus, the profits from merch help fund improving the game!

Basically, that whole argument is a whiny, anxiety-ridden, fear, and distrust that two or more things cannot happen at once. It is an act of absolute stupidity to want a game that is continually being worked on to go without as much funding as it can muster.

The edgy humor this game is lacking is the endless space to make fun of its fanbase. That would be an easy updated take on the protestors at RWS headquarters in Postal 2.

[PoorPocketsMcNewHold]

Originally posted by Sae'tul:

The edgy humor this game is lacking is the endless space to make fun of its fanbase. That would be an easy updated take on the protestors at RWS headquarters in Postal 2.

"GAME AIN'T BAD, AND WE'RE MAD !
GAME AIN'T BAD, AND WE'RE MAD !"

With the protestors being dressed as Notim'portant fans as showcased in some of the game poster in game.

[45]

Originally posted by Zeron:

4 - There's absolutely nothing political/edgy/etc about returning a library book, getting steaks and many other P2 missions, that narrative doesn't make sense despite it being overly used by many. Still, you can debate that all you want, it just doesn't make sense to me.

You just ignored the point entirely. Nobody said they were. The point was that 4 is toothless and unfunny its afraid to make obvious jokes when given the opportunity. Why reference covid at all if you're not going to make fun of Chinese people? Why is it made by mexicans? If you wanted mexicans it shouldve fentnyl you know that thing's becoming the leading cause of death in the country.

But we already know why, its because the chinese market is 4x the size of the us and you wanted money. Its not to avoid offending chinese americans because if you go to any chinese business in america you will see anti-ccp propaganda all over the windows and walls.

Originally posted by Elucidator:

For example: 1. "Everything feels empty"
Go ahead and pay for assets or artists or make them yourself and fill up a map that feels filled, even when you explore the topsides of the buildings (or prevent the player from reaching the skies so that there are always walls around them instead of an open space) for example.

Or maybe we can just criticize this work that we were charged money for. They shouldn't have made the world larger than need be. Postal 2's world is compact and has hidden goodies all over it.

[PoorPocketsMcNewHold]

Originally posted by 45:

Originally posted by Zeron:

4 - There's absolutely nothing political/edgy/etc about returning a library book, getting steaks and many other P2 missions, that narrative doesn't make sense despite it being overly used by many. Still, you can debate that all you want, it just doesn't make sense to me.

You just ignored the point entirely. Nobody said they were. The point was that 4 is toothless and unfunny its afraid to make obvious jokes when given the opportunity. Why reference covid at all if you're not going to make fun of Chinese people? Why is it made by mexicans? If you wanted mexicans it shouldve fentnyl you know that thing's becoming the leading cause of death in the country.

But we already know why, its because the chinese market is 4x the size of the us and you wanted money. Its not to avoid offending chinese americans because if you go to any chinese business in america you will see anti-ccp propaganda all over the windows and walls.

BUT THAT'S JUST A THEORY, A GAME THEORY !

For real however, you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ delusional. Jumping to such conspiracy because they haven't thought of YOUR specific jokes. You really idolize that country so much, that you wish to see representation of it in all your games too ? If we are now allowed to jump to conclusions without any decent actual train of thoughts.
It's not even a place where the Postal franchise was popular like Eastern Europe.

[Elucidator]

Originally posted by Zero(the number):

1. how the hell was anything i said "vague"
2. I actually am working on my own game that im doing nearly everything for
3. the dev said to add more the open world when i said to shrink it, your confusing whos saying what
4. postal 2 had basically everything i wanted in this thread
5. most of what you said doesnt even make sense

As mentioned, but I'll try to go in detail on this example:
In point: 1. The map is way too big for its own good
You say: "the game has too much open space and large gaps between missions that just feel completely empty "
So you claim "missions that just feel completely empty"
I responded to that.
Well I also considered the possibility that the completely empty part was supposed to refer to the large gaps and open space, but it doesn't really matter.
You claim the solution is "making the map smaller"
but is it really?
because either way you're going to see an open space, at the very least above your head, so you'd need a maze.

The more condensed you make a map, the less there is to explore in the first place, the less freedom and the more restrictive the player becomes.
Simply stating "It should be smaller" is therefore vague. You need a real solution.
So, how do you make it "condensed" in your vision?
put houses close to eachother or mission points? What do you mean exactly?
Like... do you want less homes and map area, where? what day, why? How?

Your gross description is simply vague. You don't feel like sharing your ideas in detail, so I said Make your own game. I can't guess what you want exactly and nobody has any idea on what approach you thought of here; they can only guess.

Edit: one of the alternative options I mentioned are handholding. If walking is a problem, you could be teleported, or cutscene carried. This takes away playability and player interaction, but you don't need to do much now.
but anyway, if you think the game is "too big", and the reason is "exploring" is less fun, then you want to take away exploring I assume.
Zeron says "We're providing more to explore for over time", and you are saying "There should be less to explore" practically. Your idea has multiple solutions, not just forcing the map or explorable area specifically to be smaller.

[⚡Electro Javaboy⚡]

Originally posted by Elucidator:

As mentioned, but I'll try to go in detail on this example:
In point: 1. The map is way too big for its own good
You say: "the game has too much open space and large gaps between missions that just feel completely empty "
So you claim "missions that just feel completely empty"
I responded to that.
Well I also considered the possibility that the completely empty part was supposed to refer to the large gaps and open space, but it doesn't really matter.
You claim the solution is "making the map smaller"
but is it really?
because either way you're going to see an open space, at the very least above your head, so you'd need a maze.

The more condensed you make a map, the less there is to explore in the first place, the less freedom and the more restrictive the player becomes.
Simply stating "It should be smaller" is therefore vague. You need a real solution.
So, how do you make it "condensed" in your vision?
put houses close to eachother or mission points? What do you mean exactly?
Like... do you want less homes and map area, where? what day, why? How?

Your gross description is simply vague. You don't feel like sharing your ideas in detail, so I said Make your own game. I can't guess what you want exactly and nobody has any idea on what approach you thought of here; they can only guess.

Edit: one of the alternative options I mentioned are handholding. If walking is a problem, you could be teleported, or cutscene carried. This takes away playability and player interaction, but you don't need to do much now.
but anyway, if you think the game is "too big", and the reason is "exploring" is less fun, then you want to take away exploring I assume.
Zeron says "We're providing more to explore over time", and you are saying "There should be less to explore" practically. Your idea has multiple solutions, not just forcing the map or explorable area specifically to be smaller.

Without having to redesign the map, the best possible solution would be to teleport the player with every load zone(to bridges, generally long empty road).

[⚡Electro Javaboy⚡]

Originally posted by Elucidator:

Edit: one of the alternative options I mentioned are handholding. If walking is a problem, you could be teleported, or cutscene carried. This takes away playability and player interaction, but you don't need to do much now.

Postal 2 teleports the player to the end of the tunnel whenever you go to the next load zone, it didnt take away any playability, in fact it increases replayability.
Hell, even the bridges leading to the rws office still teleports the player even though its so short.

[Kimosamie<sAp.]

Originally posted by Zeron:

We've addressed similar suggestions to redo the whole game before and the simple answer is no. This answer should be pretty obvious to anyone who's minimaly informed about game development.


For a more complete answer.

1- The map is indeed too big, we are aware of that for quite some time. But instead of making it smaller, we are adding to it and it already provides a lot as it is (easter eggs, 94% of buildings have interiors you can enter, collectibles, loot, etc). If we compare to POSTAL 2, it really isn't that tedious to go to specific areas due to fast travel boards and vehicles.

Hi, this is just the worst thing to do. Vehicles aren't fun and the need to stop and get out all the time to explore houses/secrets isn't fun. Fast Travel boards never worked for me. No matter where I clicked they never worked except for the tutorial mission for them.

In Postal 2 it could've taken just as long to get between missions but you were naturally exploring. You could cut through houses in a path and not lose the speed towards your destination, or face a minimal delay. This would stock you up on stuff and let you find things. In Postal 4 if you do this then you best ditch the vehicles because you're constantly going to be driving for 20 seconds, getting out, exploring 6 samey houses (often with nothing in them), and then walk back to your vehicle to continue on your way.

Shrinking the map is the best advice possible. By the time I hit Wednesday I stopped exploring. I just drove from mission to mission because it was too tedious. The process is tedious here where as in Postal 2 was not. Simply relying on vehicles and adding more reasons for us to just stop, search, and then get back in doesn't help the core of the problem. A tedious game loop.

2 - We do have plenty of errands that have multiple different outcomes, Kunny Island for example has a bunch of them. Animal Catcher is another, and it's getting an overhaul for the next update. Border Smuggler has two possible outcomes. Fix Race is another one with multiple outcomes... you get the idea, there's plenty of variety in these missions, please look more into it.

You have plenty of errands but they're all boring or they go on for way too long. The spray paint mission was nice until it wasn't. The poop cleaning mission was boring. Flinging the Mexicans across the border was a nice idea but overall boring. The sewer missions and underground missions need to go. The dam mission was just shoot everything and now plug the holes. The timer didn't add any tension, just an annoyance. Fixing the race mission was FUUUUUUUUUU--------------ING boring. I iced everyone right away and then walked away from my computer to clean my toilet. The mall, prison, burning casino, GoT TP, Find the female cat, Get milk, deal with the dog, and more are all the same. You need to kill until you can get to the point where you hold e, enter a password, or find an object. Thinking on it this fits the dam too. This might fit the VR mission too. I wouldn't know the glitched part didn't spawn. I just kept running the game over and over until it said I finished.

3 - You can enter 94% of buildings in this game and these interiors have far better quality than what you've seen in POSTAL 2, not just in terms of quantity but also quality. I dunno what to tell you, the only problem the game currently has is a lack of NPCs in some interiors but that's being addressed, but most houses do have NPCs in them already.

You can enter them but at most they have like dog food or scraps of food. Often they're worthless. I was going through homes, with the build before this update, and usually most homes were empty. They were all designed the same too. It feels boring as a player to go through the same houses over and over again and finding nothing to boot.


I want to like Postal 4, but you guys constantly telling fans we're wrong is getting tiring. A lot of the missions are samey or boring. They're not disguised up well enough to hide their samey-ness. Traveling is a chore. Exploring is often a waste of time and just adds to the already extensive chore of getting from point a to point b.

[Kimosamie<sAp.]

Originally posted by ⚡Electro Javaboy⚡:

This is for Zer0n.



3. I think this is due to the fact that postal 2 have less houses but have more interesting building and spots which not only fun to explore but also very useful when it comes to traversal, such as providing cover on higher difficulty. The key here is utility.


6. Now this is where most of my frustation comes in. It doesn't have anything to do with plushies but why every updates always focused on short terms stuff. Small visual stuff, more weapons, some open world fixes. But even when you focused on long term stuff, it falls short. I appreciate that you guys addressed a lot of issues, but there is one issue you guys refused to address. The issue is also game breaking and fundamental, yet only small portion of people mentioned it. The save system, WHY THE ♥♥♥♥ IS THIS STUPID THING STILL EXIST?! At the very least we should've have gotten a report of the progress of this fix. This is probably one of the legit reason to rebuild the game.

Re #3 This also makes traveling via memory in Postal 4 harder. In Postal 2 I could learn routes and locations easily. Same with PL. Every spot had a nice unique look that I was able to map to memory fast. In P4 I'm constantly pulling up the map to make sure I'm going the right way because the GPS often takes buggy routes.

6 is a hard agree.